Aliens make Crop Circles, Best Evidence Ever - Cosmic Wakening

reply to post by DGFenrir

DG Fenrir, don't you work at the J. Edgar Hoover building in Washington D.C.?
I have some of your past posts saved.
You changed your location.
Better Avatar BTW!
Merry Christmas!

Imagine for a moment that you are part of a civilization that has the technology to cross millions and millions of miles of space to another planet that is inhabited by beings that have not progressed to the technology level equal to your own.

You decide to communicate with these beings.

What would be the easiest and/or best way to communicate?
Why make geometric designs on their farm fields. That's the ticket!

Perhaps they're not so advanced after all.

Originally posted by Wildbob77
Imagine for a moment that you are part of a civilization that has the technology to cross millions and millions of miles of space to another planet that is inhabited by beings that have not progressed to the technology level equal to your own.

You decide to communicate with these beings.

What would be the easiest and/or best way to communicate?
Why make geometric designs on their farm fields. That's the ticket!

Perhaps they're not so advanced after all.

Yet, if God is a mathematician then it would be the perfect way!

Originally posted by mahajohn

Originally posted by Neo__
"Humans (at least most humans) are way too vain to do things like this without recognition. It's just so out of character for most.

You know the character of most people? Wow. So, your personal generalization/stereotype as to "how people behave," supports the idea that ALIENS are responsible for crop circles!? You can't be serious. That's a terrible argument. Anyone can argue just the opposite. Do you have social science data to back up this assertion? I happen to know plenty of street artists who CHERISH their anonymity, and value the idea that viewers can appreciate their artistic productions without reference as to who made them. This is art that takes a great deal of time, energy, planning and expense, all down for the sake of itself, without regard to personal fame or fortune. It's the oldest "kind" of art, older than civilization itself.

"People would've freaked if they had started with the complex pictograms we see today."

I wouldn't have freaked. My mom wouldn't have freaked. I'm not entirely certain anyone would have "freaked." I don't really know what freaking is. Today's complex designs would certainly have been NOVEL had they been the first to appear, but it would hardly blow our minds in any sort of grand, psychedelic fashion. Hiroshima and Nagasaki didn't blow our collective minds, so I'm not sure why you suppose cool designs in fields of wheat would have "freaked" people beyond the limits of their comfortable 'freakability zones" in the 1970s.

"What we could be witnessing is a slow externalization over the years in order to get us used to the idea that we are not alone."

Quite an opaque way to communicate a simple message, don't you think? Images that look like they were designed by a teeneager with a giant spirograph somehow lead to the conclusion that we're not alone in the universe? I don't get it.

I was speaking in what is called "broad generalities" about the motives of most, not all people. Generalization is a "broad statement about an entire group". People do it all the time. And I stand by what I said, people in general are usually looking for recognition or money or both. It's human nature. And I don't have social science data to back this up. You shouldn't need any, just look around.

And I'm glad that you and your mom wouldn't have freaked out over crop circles back then. I also find it amusing that on one hand you say "I'm not entirely certain anyone would have freaked." and on the other hand you say "I don't really know what freaking is". Interesting.

Quite an opaque way to communicate a simple message, don't you think?

Yes, very much. Sometimes the simplest method is the best. Would you prefer some out of this world, esoteric quantum physics etched into pavement in front of Buckingham Palace?
The fact that it's happening in a food source is symbolic on it's own. This is food for thought.

The message, in most cases (that's a broad generalization), doesn't have to say anything, except that there's beauty in symmetry.

Note the six sided star crop circle from 1997:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ae6d3ec6f6ac.jpg[/atsimg]





[edit on 22-12-2009 by Neo__]

reply to post by Algebra


Good point.

And there is also SOOOO many other facts about crop circles, regarding the labor, time, calculations, mathematical understanding, increased radiation in the fields, increased EMF, along with the bent nodes which have accelerated growth in a specific direction...This is far more complex than a couple of shlubs with some rope and wooden planks.

Many years ago, i was also under the impression that crop circles were man-made, until I started researching the phenomena beyond the surface of what you hear from the mainstream media. After gaining more insight, I was changed forever in my opinion, and I now believe they are absolutely a legitimate phenomena beyond the capabilities of man.

Again, for anyone still on the fence or who has yet to really explore the specifics of these circles...PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE WATCH THE DOCUMENTARY: Crop Circles - Crossover From Another Dimension. If you can watch this film and still believe they are man made, then I have nothing else for you. However, I simply don't see how anyone could believe that after seeing all of the evidence. Judge for yourself!

Ok so why is it that crop circles only appear in england ? why not in any other part of the world ? why would an alien want to travel thru worm holes and billions of space miles to come draw designs in wheat fields ??

reply to post by tiger5d


It's not only happening in England. Various crop circles had appear around the world, except that no one else is keeping watch as fastidiously than our english cousins.

And crop circles creators from decades of light speed away need not be present to physically carve messages on the field. There is so much technologies that we are not aware of yet, just like if your great grandfather in an age of only cumbersome telegraph machines were to tell his neighbour that one day he will be able to send text messages on a handheld device, his neighbour would probably laugh his socks off.

Point is, there may be more advance civilisation than we are out there. It would be stupid to believe all species start and develope at the same point of time.

Are Crop Circles created by aliens? I dont know. Are they made by men. I dont know too, but of the 2, I am more inclined towards alien creators simply because men had not been able to recreate their dubious claims of being creators of EVERY SINGLE CROP CIRCLE in history.

In the absence of evidences, one is left with logical deductions for assessment, from various sources, - rigid scientific applications, social regulations, etc, even with an open mind into looking at the UFO phenomena as a source from credible witnesses around the world, to make an informed opinion.

The Truth is out there. No one had specific evidences to proof or disprove. With such absence, then is mankind to IGNORE crop circles and gullibly accept that it is man-made, to delude ourselves of our fears and stupidity?

reply to post by tiger5d


Again, if you watch the video I mentioned in the above post, it will answer all of this...

However, I'll give you the condensed explanation which basically states there are so many in England because of the lay lines, stone henge, the "white horse", and many other sacred and ancient structures in that area which have great significance...Almost all of the crop circles are located around water in specific regions of the countryside.

[edit on 22-12-2009 by bigdaddy7ftr]

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
I am more inclined towards alien creators simply because men had not been able to recreate their dubious claims of being creators of EVERY SINGLE CROP CIRCLE in history.

Yet there is no evidence "aliens" even exist, yet you believe that they make crop circles, when it has been demonstrated man can make them?

[quote[]In the absence of evidences, one is left with logical deductions for assessment, from various sources, - rigid scientific applications, social regulations, etc, even with an open mind into looking at the UFO phenomena as a source from credible witnesses around the world, to make an informed opinion.

and that is they are all man made!

reply to post by dereks


Well, I guess no amount of evidence is sound enough for someone who remains determined not to believe it. I, for one, have personally witnessed at LEAST nine separate UFO sightings, which started with the Phoenix Lights over 12 years ago (I don't count other possible sightings where other possibilities couldn't be ruled out). I can tell you one thing for sure, none of those nine sightings could be explained away by ANY conventional means...And while I did not see any little green men actually piloting the ships, I can tell you with absolute certainty that the technology I observed is FAR beyond anything we are capable of.

So, I am comfortable saying with absolute certainty that yes, Aliens do exist and they visit us regularly...Once you come to that realization, connecting them to the crop circles is really quite easy.

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101

Now, would you like to please show evidence that men made ALL the crop circles, each and everyone of them, preferrably with photographic evidence of them doing it, along with their equipment?

how about you providing one little bit of evidence that aliens even exist, let alone make crop circles.... come on, just one little bit.....

If you think all these people are liars... Walter Cronkite, Dan Akroyd, President Carter, Presidential Candidates Dennis Kucinich and Bill Richardson, Astronauts Chase Mc Divot, Ed White, Gordon Cooper, Edgar Mitchel, Buzz Aldren, Admiral. Hillenkoetter, Governor Fife Symington, Lt. Governor Joseph Montoya, Governor Brian Schweitzer, Lt Col Charles Brown, Lt Walter Haut, Sgt. Clifford Stone, The Canadian Minister of Defense Paul Hellyer, FAA Supervisor John Callahan, Astronomers, Scientist's, Police Officers, Pilots, Staff at Atomic Missile Edwards Air force Base & the 10,000 AZ residents that saw the Phoenix Lights & Saucer ...

Why would I expect you to believe me?

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by bigdaddy7ftr
reply to post by dereks

 

I can tell you with absolute certainty that the technology I observed is FAR beyond anything we are capable of....I am comfortable saying with absolute certainty that yes, Aliens do exist and they visit us regularly...

All due respect, but you do NOT know with absolute certainty. Do you know anything about epistemology? Few and far between are those ideas with which anyone can authentically say they have absolute certitude, and most definitely, the extremely speculative idea that you are absolutely certain that ET visitation takes place is rather humorous. Certainty like that should have a mountain of unassailable evidence to back it up. As I’ve argued before, there is no more foundation to the argument that UFOs are piloted by space aliens as there is that they are piloted by teams of bigfoots. I’d even go so far as to say that there is more substantial evidence for the existence of ape-man hominids than there is for space aliens visiting planet Earth.

I maintain that the knowledge you claim to have is not possibly certain, based on the known facts before you. First of all, you have consciously decided that the alien hypothesis makes the best sense of your highly novel life experiences. However, you did not see ETs piloting any of these craft. Perhaps you 'intuited' that they had to be aliens, like women 'intuited' that Ted Bundy was a man they could trust? In any event, you did not see aliens, and therefore you can not be certain.

Further, even if you had seen what appeared to be an ET, how do you truly know it was an ET? Can't your senses be deceived? Couldn't a sufficiently advanced technology, wielded by intelligent beings (e.g. humans), induce fully-formed, open-eyed hallucinations that are indistinguishable from reality? Psychotics can’t distinguish between hallucinations, fantasy and reality. Why would your brain be any different?

Finally, how do you know what we are capable of? Do you have an authenticated DOD dossier describing the current limits of top secret human technologies? As anyone who follows UFO conspiracy theories 'knows,' there are all sorts of suggestions that secret projects have existed for decades to research and develop technologies and capabilities mirroring those of so-called ETs. There are reasons to believe that these efforts have borne some fruit, and therefore, it's just as likely that the unmistakably UFO-ish things you've seen that you can't attribute to anything but 'unearthly' beings, could very well be the very definition of earthly, man-made, and human-piloted.

I will agree that you have a reasonable cause to believe they were aliens, but kind person, you do not have absolute certainty. If you do, then I fear you may be mired in self-delusion.

BTW, I totally believe that aliens exist and are visiting Earth, and are one of the best mechanisms through which to explain a history of strange experiences and sightings. However, I recognize the logical fallacy of stating that I have absolute certainty on the matter. I could be sitting behind the Lincoln Memorial, gazing at the Potomac River, when a thousand foot tall humanoid takes form from the substance of the water itself, opens its mouth and declares “Mahajohn! I am the Lord, your God! Bow down before my power!,” and yet I could not know with absolute certainty that I was really witnessing a divine manifestation.

reply to post by mahajohn


I do agree with your hypothesis. BUT, living beings are endowed with the 5 senses - see, hear, smell, touch and taste.

How do we differentiate dreams from reality? By observing the 5 senses. It does not lie, so long as we are not given pre-concieved perceptions, such as simple eg:- insurance plans, which will utterly fail our 5 senses, as it is a projected event into the future.

Sight and noise may be duplicated in virtual reality, but touch, smell and taste is still far beyond mankind's ability, based on current knowledge of neuroscience.

However, if the presumption that a secret force of mankind had indulge and perfected the replication of the 5 senses fully, then it is indeed a frightening issue - our very freedoms are endangered and must be prevented from happening.

The red or blue pill ( matrix movie ) is a frightening social engineering manipulation concept to behold. I sincerly doubt if we had reach that stage yet, otherwise companies dealing in such would already be beneffiting from commercial use, the very purpose of such technologies - economics.


[edit on 23-12-2009 by SeekerofTruth101]

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
I am more inclined towards alien creators simply because men had not been able to recreate their dubious claims of being creators of EVERY SINGLE CROP CIRCLE in history.

Yet there is no evidence "aliens" even exist, yet you believe that they make crop circles, when it has been demonstrated man can make them?

Dude, are you effing serious?!? This is Alternative Knowledge 101 - just cancel your ATS subscription, now and head over to HelloKitty.com - nothing for you to see here.

Please scroll up to where "CosmicWakening" has posted or YouTube his stuff.

Go to the 6:20 mark in the (Crop Circle) video and please explain to me what YOU see happening at "Oliver's Castle" in the summer of 1996. (I see 2 unidentified objects (flying, of course) creating a design before my eyes).


*The burden of proof is on the debunkers: Either find the 'authors' of the unclaimed circles to come forward and 1) accept ownership, and of course 2) explain how they did it? Or, 3) create one yourself - COPY one even - half the work (design) is done for you - film it, and let it be analized for the bulleted points, above.

[edit on 12/23/2009 by SquirrelNutz]

Originally posted by SquirrelNutz

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
I am more inclined towards alien creators simply because men had not been able to recreate their dubious claims of being creators of EVERY SINGLE CROP CIRCLE in history.

*The burden of proof is on the debunkers: Either find the 'authors' of the unclaimed circles to come forward and 1) accept ownership, and of course 2) explain how they did it? Or, 3) create one yourself - COPY one even - half the work (design) is done for you - film it, and let it be analized for the bulleted points, above.

[edit on 12/23/2009 by SquirrelNutz]

WRONG. The burden of proff is on the one makeing the ORIGINAL argument. You , and all the other CC believers , need to come up with concrete evidence that these are not man made.

There's Plenty of video of one guy. two guys, teams of guys, creating just as elaborate circles as depicted in the Original Video,(actually, some are the same), in the span of 6 hours overnight, in the bright moonlight, while the tired farmer rests.

The OP'er made the case, it's up to him/her to provide evidence that Humans are definitely NOT makeing all the CC's. and imo they haven't even come close.

The Fact that you CITE the OLIVER's CASTLE incident, is a terrible givaway to your lack of knowledge of THIS subject. That has been a KNOWN HOAX since nearly the day it was realesed. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? LOLOLOL.

BTW I suggest you sit down and read for a few months, after makeing an account here, before telling people to cancel thier accounts.

Do YOURself a favor, and the rest of us as well, and cancel your account. haha. Oliver's Castle......you have got to be kidding me,. I didn't even see that clip in the video. The fact that it is, makes that whole video suspect. It's The BIGGEST KNOWN HOAX in Crop Circle History.

[edit on 23-12-2009 by Nola213]

Originally posted by Wildbob77

What would be the easiest and/or best way to communicate?
Why make geometric designs on their farm fields. That's the ticket!

Perhaps they're not so advanced after all.

I understand that many people use this as an argument against alien made crop circles. But the problem is in that you are assuming that aliens "think" the same way as us humans. Just look at the differences in our thinking here on earth from one culture to another. It would be like the British thinking that everyone thinks like them and that we should all find their humor funny (I don't get alot of it) Or Muslims thinking we should all hold their same beliefs about women. Yes, these are simple examples but apply it to completely different beings and their ideas of things may make completely no sense at all to our ways of thinking..

Originally posted by Wildbob77
Imagine for a moment that you are part of a civilization that has the technology to cross millions and millions of miles of space to another planet that is inhabited by beings that have not progressed to the technology level equal to your own.

You decide to communicate with these beings.

What would be the easiest and/or best way to communicate?
Why make geometric designs on their farm fields. That's the ticket!

Perhaps they're not so advanced after all.

Thats what gets me!.. You would assume that if aliens were coming from so far away, then the message must be pretty important.. so if there's something important that we need to be told, why do it in such a way that is completely devoid of logic? Ive yet to see one crop circle where the apparant message actually correlates with any world events, so if these are messages then we arnt understanding them. So all in all its a pretty pointless exercise.
However, if the whole cryptic, work it out for yourself thing is just how they roll, then they can keep whatever info they are trying to communicate to themselves. Its a nice approach to take if you want to create an interesting film or book, but this is the real world, if there's something they want to tell us then just do it.

Originally posted by bigdaddy7ftr
And while I did not see any little green men actually piloting the ships, I can tell you with absolute certainty that the technology I observed is FAR beyond anything we are capable of.

Absolute certainty you say.. do you work at area 51 or something?

Originally posted by mahajohn



All due respect, but you do NOT know with absolute certainty.

bigdaddy's response: Wow...that seems rather presumptuous given that you are judging a scenario of which you have ZERO first hand knowledge. I came to a conclusion based upon the specifics of all events I witnessed combined. I am also sure that the yellow stick of potato I ate last night was a french fry and not a do-nut, but I suppose I cannot convince you of that either, based on this rationale.

Do you know anything about epistemology?

bigdaddy's response: Yes, and that's obviously what you are basing your argument on...see above french fry reference.

Few and far between are those ideas with which anyone can authentically say they have absolute certitude, and most definitely, the extremely speculative idea that you are absolutely certain that ET visitation takes place is rather humorous.

bigdaddy's response: Let me make sure I have this straight, it's humorous that I've deduced the most rational conclusion I can reach based upon the evidence presented to my 5 senses, along with my own logical thought process which led me to that conclusion...But it's ok for you to tell me what I am or am not sure of based on no direct knowledge of the event in question?...Hmmm

Certainty like that should have a mountain of unassailable evidence to back it up.

bigdaddy's response: Should it? I'm not a scientist trying to either prove or disprove the phenomena on a global scale, and have never stated that I had any undeniable proof beyond my own experience. I am simply a member of a forum which deals with the phenomena in question, to which I have relayed my own personal account to the best of my ability

As I’ve argued before, there is no more foundation to the argument that UFOs are piloted by space aliens as there is that they are piloted by teams of bigfoots.

bigdaddy's response: See french fry/donut reference once again...

I’d even go so far as to say that there is more substantial evidence for the existence of ape-man hominids than there is for space aliens visiting planet Earth.

bigdaddy's response: I've never seen a bigfoot before, so I cannot say one way or another as far as that goes...But I have seen AT LEAST NINE separate UFO sightings right here in my home state which have provided me with all of the proof I need regarding this subject.

I maintain that the knowledge you claim to have is not possibly certain, based on the known facts before you.

bigdaddy's response: This is a redundant argument...Please see my response above beginning with "Let me make sure..."

First of all, you have consciously decided that the alien hypothesis makes the best sense of your highly novel life experiences.

bigdaddy's response: Highly novel? Again, what gives you the right to pass judgment over what I did or did not witness when you have little to ZERO specifics involved in either of the NINE cases I have attested to?

However, you did not see ETs piloting any of these craft

bigdaddy's response: Which I also stated

Perhaps you 'intuited' that they had to be aliens, like women 'intuited' that Ted Bundy was a man they could trust? In any event, you did not see aliens, and therefore you can not be certain.

bigdaddy's response: Third times a charm...See fry/donut comparison once more

Further, even if you had seen what appeared to be an ET, how do you truly know it was an ET? Can't your senses be deceived?

bigdaddy's response: Ok, maybe fourth times the charm...See fry/donut rebuttle once more.

Couldn't a sufficiently advanced technology, wielded by intelligent beings (e.g. humans), induce fully-formed, open-eyed hallucinations that are indistinguishable from reality?

bigdaddy's response: This is the first fair question I've read in this entire post thus far...My answer is that unless EVERYTHING we currently understand about the limitations of our current technology, physics, laws of gravity, etc... are wrong, then no, it's simply not possible.

Psychotics can’t distinguish between hallucinations, fantasy and reality. Why would your brain be any different?

bigdaddy's response: So I'm psychotic all of the sudden? I fail to understand your intended purpose of making this statement

Finally, how do you know what we are capable of?

bigdaddy's response: I already answered that...See my response to our first fair question.

Do you have an authenticated DOD dossier describing the current limits of top secret human technologies?

bigdaddy's response: Come on, don't be silly...Again, if our POPULAR understanding of current technology is that far off, then anything goes.

Further responses follow below...



[edit on 23-12-2009 by bigdaddy7ftr]

reply to post by Nola213


1) WRONG. The burden of proof IS on the debunkers, until ALL (100%) CCs are proven to be Hoaxes.

Let me be clear about something - I am very aware, of course, that Humans DO make Crop Circles - MANY of them - heck, maybe even MOST of them, However...

2) Just becuase it has been shown that some/many HAVE been created by man, there are others that have not even been ADRESSED. You're using a few [WEAK] examples to prove your point (please stop with the 'coupla guys and planks with their feet' rhetoric - we've all seen it. It's tired and worn out).

3) And ftr, I lurked here for a LOOOooong time before registering an account to post. Any guesses why?! Because it became increasingly frustrating to watch morons like you ignore the EVIDENCE put in front of them, and then spew nonsense like you know what the hell you're talking about.

Go on, SHOW me the evidence (including Oliver's Castle) that the most popularly referenced CCs are hoaxes. We're all waiting.

Buh-bye, now - I predict this will be the last we see of you.

[edit on 12/23/2009 by SquirrelNutz]

[edit on 12/23/2009 by SquirrelNutz]