Gays 'will never go to heaven'

Originally posted by yzzyUK

Originally posted by Fromabove

From the Holy Bible - Leviticus 20:13

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

erm so.... what if you 'lieth' with both

I need to know if I should pack a bikini or a jumper ...

Old Covenant/Old Testament = it's a sin, but the penalty of death (both figuratively and literally) is escapable via Jesus and the New Covenant in Him; the New Testament.

So many times I read this post and think it says

Grays "will never go to heaven" .


...actually it would make more sense than this post does.

Originally posted by rusethorcain
So many times I read this post and think it says

Grays "will never go to heaven" .


...actually it would make more sense than this post does.

A star for you, good sir.

reply to post by blueorder OK apologies again: yesterday got a little hectic. Upon reflection, I came to the conclusion that where you & I began, in discussing the validity of religion per se, was probably outside the scope of this thread, but interesting nonetheless, so I've created a new one here:
www.abovetopsecret.com....
I think part of the problem since is a lack of undertanding of debate & its terminology. Allow me to recap & explain:

I used "crackpot" to describe a religious man.
You took exception.
With a bone of contention, debate was joined.
I opened with ineffability.
You refuted me with omnipotence.
In rebuttal, I stated ineffability trumps omnipotence, because whatever a deity can do, we cannot know what that deity did or didn't do.
You did not respond.

In a debate, it is customary to have point/counter-point (refutation) &, where time allows, a round of rebuttal. At which point, unless some new point has been brought up, from where more refutation & rebuttal can usefully proceed, it is down to the audience to make up their minds. However, so long as there is opportunity to respond, an unchallenged point is considered to be accepted or conceded.
Basically, in this debate, you are 1 rebuttal behind. [Let's see]
I suspect you know this, as pretty much everything from you since has been sniping or obfustication & now you're trying to change the subject with the false dichotomy of Left vs Right politics.
You did not address the thrust of Gaspode's argument, just as you ignored mine. If you had anything for me, the same point would have done equally well against him/her.
Anyway, as I said, its in a new thread, succinctly laid out so its easier to follow.

reply to post by Harlequin


Not one of us has earned more respect than the other.

Having said that, I don't think we should mandate who gets respect and how much they get. It's completely pathetic.

Gays aren't the only people being walked all over. There're plenty of straight nerds who get tons of hell all the time.

The topic is silly because the Christian God has said that homosexuality is wrong. Therefore, it is wrong. I don't understand what is hard to understand.

If you want to start a thread about how wrong I am, start a thread about how God is not fond of people who strongly dislike stupid people. You will be 100% correct that God is not proud of me in any way about the way that I treat stupid people. IT's my own weakness that I attempt to overcome while at the same time hoping that someone will really get the hint about how incredibly stupid they are if I am ruthless.

So, there's my major weakness in front of all of you. I say being gay is completely unnatural and wrong. I say I understand there are "reasons" why people do CRAZY and unnatural things. NEVER should any of us say, "Well, it's okay then!"

But, I would like to point out that there are those in this world who do not desire respect, but beg for it. There are those who desire pain and ask for pleasure. There are people in this world who are mentally beyond straightness because they are lost in their deep dark hole that they've put themselves in because they want to hide from God and themselves. Well, guess what, you can't ever hide from God and you're only lying to yourself!

All of us are people! ALL OF US. We're all massive screw-ups. It's the illusion that people hold that we somehow deserve ANYTHING or know anything that is screwing us up. It's our TOTAL lack of care about anything besides ourselves that is screwing us up. It's our total disrespect for our entire creation!

Anyone who says gays screw things up are clearly completely RETARDED. But anyone who says that gays are offering anything positive by BEING gay are equally retarded.

And anyone here who is worried about some "cult-leader" that existed "2000 years ago" and thinks we should move past that should probably learn to think. What super-human logic we got goin' on there! Let's just do what feels good and totally ignore our ancestors' advice. Yeah. It would be better for you to be a Hindu than it would be to pretend you're so self-sufficient. Pick SOMETHING. The ancestors, right or wrong, had advice to offer and it is disrespectful and downright STUPID to say, "We shouldn't listen to a 2000 year old dead-guy." Welcome to the mentality which is forming our government today.

I have, through this post, learned something. I believe that respect, as far as with people, should be based on the exact now. Meaning, I expect little respect for this post, but later I might make a statement somewhere else that makes you feel that I am warranted more respect. I may always be an impatient jerk, but I can make some pretty profound statements.

The same goes for gays or whatever other kind of screw-up you can find. We all are screw ups. I don't care how freaking gay you are. I am not going to say, "I can't be seen with you!" Or "you aren't allowed here!" OR whatever. Who does? I don't care! Do I want you making laws mandating what you are allowed? NO! My name is Tarzan. How about I lobby congress to make sure no one else makes another, "Where's Jane?" joke! Oh, my, god, you people have no idea. I hear the same thing over and over and over all day... you people are -so- unoriginal. But, guess what. That's my life. And it certainly wasn't cake growing up- by ANY means. I am faster, stronger, and smarter than everyone I know simply because I had to learn how to be in order to overcome K-12. Pathetic, ain't it? I bet if there was a rule in school that said, "Everyone leave Tarzan alone!" Then I would be a slower, weaker, and dumber person before you today.

So, gays, if you really wanna be, it'll only make you stronger to face the dumb rednecks of the world that have nothing better to do than to pick on your sin instead of realizing their own crank/alcohol addictions.

reply to post by Bunken Drum



Bunken Drum,

Your posts show remarkable logic and reason. Excellent rationale in the usage of the English Language. Great Gnosis you have there.

The problem with it is that there is a template of logic and reason left totally out of your debate points. However to be fair about it..those with whom you are debating don't seem to catch it themselves so it is very easy for you to "appear" to be so logical and reasonable.

The template in logic and reason missing from both yours and your opposition's points is that thinking peoples never define who and what they are by their Sexuality or Sexual Orientation. Ever??

To do so is just plain ...Stupid.

For people are so much more than Sexuality/Sexual Orientation.

Ironically this view is missing from most of our media and educational institutions. And our educational institutions are financed by Government to do just that...declare our excellence in stupid by glorifying our sexuality/sexual orientation. Talk about institutional stupid.

Oh...and this fingerprint I am describing applies hetero as well as homo.
It is equally stupid.

Once one understands this concept...you can look at heteros and homos both and see a bunch of very stupid people.

The problem with the Homosexual crowd..is that this is their sole identifying fingerprint of greatness and acceptability. Do any of you see something very wrong here??? What is it about ones sexuality and sexual orientation that makes one great or in need of defaulting through automatically to acceptance??

In short...Bunken Drum..one has to go to school to get this naturally stupid. Thinking people on their own merits are not this stupid.

Do not misunderstand me here..I am not against sexuality. It is just that I know that sexuality is not who and what I am. I do not declare my greatness or acceptability by my sexuality or sexual orientation.

Once one knows this fingerprint and to look for it everywhere...points like yours and the others here go up in smoke..no matter what format of logic and reason you and others attempt to use.

Homophobia is a word used and or misused to cover up such institutional stupidity fostered/promoted by government, public education and the media...and force/default acceptability into institutional stupidity.
You or anyone else can put all the labels they want on it. It is equally as stupid.

However..it is obvious to me that Politics and the body politic has and is attempting to latch onto this group as they have identified them as a base for power and political control ...particularly in high electoral vote states. This "Minority Group" like most "Minority Groups" can be easily and emotionally stroked for predictable controllable, malleable, guaranteed votes at election time.
The "Victim Dictum" of which blue order speaks is an essential part of the control mechanism necessary to keep these groups on the string and controlled.

This group is not the only group emotionally controlled by this fingerprint..."The Victim Dictum."

Emotional stroking of the public for predictable, malleable, controllable, guaranteed votes is becoming the norm of late. Look for more of it to take place and particularly as regards illegal aliens.

But you know what the sad thing is Bunken Drum...many many people out here do not have a clue about this concept. They just know that something is not correct here.

Oh..by the way...Bunken Drum...a point from the Bible. No where does it instruct Believers to declare themselves by their sexuality or sexual orientation. It is not in there ..Olde or New Testaments. This was already being done in ample amounts through the religions of the Pagan nations. It is still being done today. This is history..not logic and reason per se.
The sad thing is that many Believers are themselves so ignorant ..even of the Bible...that they miss this concept themselves. Astonishing but true.

No thinking persons identify themselves by their sexuality/sexual orientation. People are so much more than this one item.
Once one knows this fingerprint and template ..one can see it being done over and over and over ad nauseum. When one knows and is convicted in it for what it is.....the fingerprint I am describing doesn't even make good nonsense.

Thanks,
Orangetom


[edit on 13-12-2009 by orangetom1999]

Originally posted by gsuboy
Rihanna just came out as bisexual :-)

I'll have company & entertainment in hell then!

Originally posted by Bunken Drum
I apologise blueorder; I had intended to get round to replying to you this evening, but I was getting a little drunk anyway & then some people came over, of the type you've characterised as a clique. You know how it is, you offer a glass of wine & the next thing you know, you're at it like rabbits...
Oh, but that's right, you dont know do you? Might want to wonder how all those dating sites keep going, mate. Yes, just a tiny insignificant clique keeping all the world's adultery going, all by themselves. Its perfectly ok, you needn't ever look at any "regular person" & suspect they're getting vastly more sex than you. Honest

Anyhoo, suffice to say, a good time was had by all & then I got sidetracked into creating a new thread.
Back tomorrow

Listen dude, I did some fair amount of bucking back in my twenties, and that was just by picking up birds in bars, without having to resort to clubs where freaks reside I was able to go out, like a hunter if you will, your way is rather sad, inadequate who couldn't get a shag in the normal world

Thankfully I met a woman I wanted to marry and don't feel the need to hide my inadequacies by bucking any ould sad fat bird into the swinging scene

Hey, if that makes you happy, go for it, I don't want to make it a crime, but let us not pretend you and your buddies are nothing but a bunch of freaks

reply to post by tezzajw


There is no heaven for humans, gays or not.

reply to post by orangetom1999


well posted

reply to post by blueorderPlease dont "dude" me. I'm an englishman: mate, pal, oi f# face... whatever, are all acceptable; use my screen-name if you like, but, whilst I admire Jeff Bridges' performance, I am definitely not a dude.
Yesterday was 1 of those 'mondays after an epic weekend', where every microscopic detail of everyone's bravery, cowardice, wit, inspiration, confusion & their ultimate contribution to our collective joy, needs must be discussed & disected until we are sure that the events in question will be remembered reasonably within the folklore that is our oral tradition.
If anyone hasn't grasped it, I am quite cynical of such rehashings, but at almost 42yrs old, I accept that part of my role is to host such meetings & be the receptacle of any wisdom that might accrue. Since this is all just basic human experience however, our endeavours & their results can be found within the writings of any half-decent philosopher. That said, such gatherings also serve a physical purpose: as a collective means to ameliorate the side-effects, ie 'comedown', of whatever we have previously indulged in, without the potentially dangerous practice of continued substance abuse, since a friendly glass of wine & freedom to be honest is all thats required; whereas if we were alone, the temptation to get wasted again would be difficult to manage.
Still, some degree of "hair of the dog" wastage is unavoidable, thus I ask you to respect the fact that I am currently unable to properly respond in this thread.
I will add however that if you seriously think that promiscuity is only practiced by the fat, ugly, [insert perjorative], then you must have a monster effective ad-blocker, because everytime I get online, it seems I'm inundated with beautiful women wanting a f#. Perhaps the difference between our perspectives is that I'm happy to oblige, whereas you seem to think women are prey. Er... they're people, not "birds": hunting is passe.

reply to post by orangetom1999 Mate, I'm destroyed. See post above. I'll be back with some similitude of compus mentis, if not shortly, then eventually.

Originally posted by orangetom1999

Oh..by the way...Bunken Drum...a point from the Bible. No where does it instruct Believers to declare themselves by their sexuality or sexual orientation. It is not in there ..Olde or New Testaments. This was already being done in ample amounts through the religions of the Pagan nations. It is still being done today. This is history..not logic and reason per se.
The sad thing is that many Believers are themselves so ignorant ..even of the Bible...that they miss this concept themselves. Astonishing but true.

You're right. No where are people instructed to declare themselves by any sexuality or sexual orientation. However, people are instructed through MANY different laws to, in short, not have sexual relations with anyone besides one of the opposite gender whom you have married. Not in that wording, but all of the laws and mandates in the Bible rule out any other kind of sexual contact as a good thing to do. So, it is you, who on an intelligent streak felt the need to make a statement, who screwed up near the end of your post. Your realization of your good post empowered you to continue with your statement, and it has caught you into a foolish trap. Bravo.

No thinking persons identify themselves by their sexuality/sexual orientation. People are so much more than this one item.
Once one knows this fingerprint and template ..one can see it being done over and over and over ad nauseum. When one knows and is convicted in it for what it is.....the fingerprint I am describing doesn't even make good nonsense.

This statement is obviously correct. Bravo.

Is it just me, or do these things not make common sense? I am pretty sure that people know that sexuality isn't the only thing. But, my friend, sex sells. Welcome to humanity. Even the best of the best of brains have this weakness about them. It is because spirit is lacking! Conviction is lacking! YOUR conviction got the best of you in this very post and you thought it wasn't transparent after re-reading your post. But you see it... and when you edited, why didn't you correct farther?

This intelligent commentary by this poster is the perfect example of how politicians are able to pull their stunts. Good words, well thought out... only to trip over their own self-awareness. Of course, with politicians, its easier to catch.

It's okay, though. I used to be that way. :\ In fact, sometimes, I still am.

Originally posted by Bunken DrumPlease dont "dude" me. I'm an englishman: mate, pal, oi f# face... whatever, are all acceptable; use my screen-name if you like, but, whilst I admire Jeff Bridges' performance, I am definitely not a dude.

I'm British too me old mucker mate dude

Yesterday was 1 of those 'mondays after an epic weekend', where every microscopic detail of everyone's bravery, cowardice, wit, inspiration, confusion & their ultimate contribution to our collective joy, needs must be discussed & disected until we are sure that the events in question will be remembered reasonably within the folklore that is our oral tradition.
If anyone hasn't grasped it, I am quite cynical of such rehashings, but at almost 42yrs old, I accept that part of my role is to host such meetings & be the receptacle of any wisdom that might accrue. Since this is all just basic human experience however, our endeavours & their results can be found within the writings of any half-decent philosopher. That said, such gatherings also serve a physical purpose: as a collective means to ameliorate the side-effects, ie 'comedown', of whatever we have previously indulged in, without the potentially dangerous practice of continued substance abuse, since a friendly glass of wine & freedom to be honest is all thats required; whereas if we were alone, the temptation to get wasted again would be difficult to manage.
Still, some degree of "hair of the dog" wastage is unavoidable, thus I ask you to respect the fact that I am currently unable to properly respond in this thread.

you good for verbosity?

I will add however that if you seriously think that promiscuity is only practiced by the fat, ugly, [insert perjorative], then you must have a monster effective ad-blocker, because everytime I get online, it seems I'm inundated with beautiful women wanting a f#

Firstly, I never said promiscuity was only indulged in by fat birds, the ones I shagged were mainly slim- the swinging scene is majority ugly and fat, you can bank that dude

. Perhaps the difference between our perspectives is that I'm happy to oblige, whereas you seem to think women are prey. Er... they're people, not "birds": hunting is passe.

If I was single I would be happy to oblige, though I wouldn't be keen on bucking a married bird, even if she had a perverted hubby that wanted to sit in the cupboard and watch- as for the "prey", when you are single and out and about that is a big part of it, spotting the talent, making your move, it's not like I chase them and savage their hind legs so they cannot move and then eat them alive (though that may happen in some of your freakboy clubs:lol

GRAYS WILL NEVER GO TO HEAVEN????

Ridiculous!

If they shaped up, and were kind to people - of course they will!!

Now the reptilians...they are another story!

reply to post by Bunken Drum

Mate, I'm destroyed. See post above. I'll be back with some similitude of compus mentis, if not shortly, then eventually.

No problem there mate. Sleep it off and catch you another time.

reply to post by TarzanBeta

 

No problem there either mate. I could have put that in there what you posted in this quote..

You're right. No where are people instructed to declare themselves by any sexuality or sexual orientation. However, people are instructed through MANY different laws to, in short, not have sexual relations with anyone besides one of the opposite gender whom you have married. Not in that wording, but all of the laws and mandates in the Bible rule out any other kind of sexual contact as a good thing to do. So, it is you, who on an intelligent streak felt the need to make a statement, who screwed up near the end of your post. Your realization of your good post empowered you to continue with your statement, and it has caught you into a foolish trap. Bravo.

But most people are not actually interested in that and expecially the gay community while attempting to default through by making others feel guilty. Guilt conditioning does not work on me...especially on this issue.

What is important to me in my post is that I can offer to thinking people another perspective and one not covered by "Experts " on this topic ..nor government, nor public education, nor the media who are "looking out for you."

I do not believe the average person ever thinks of it in this manner and it also appears that this is a view or aspect which is not desired for the general public to know or think through for themselves. It must be suppressed or ignored...verses selling ones very soul by sex/sexuality/sexual orientation.
Particularly the part where I stated that a thinking person does not define themselves by their sexuality or sexual orientation.

Yes Sex sells. But there are people out here ..once awakened to the concept....those who can think further than a sound bite...they will realize what a treadmill it is to have sex..sell you.. over and over and over. Not only you..but your family members..your children, grandchildren...etc.

Ehh...?? Isnt this very contradictory??

I am pretty sure that people know that sexuality isn't the only thing. But, my friend, sex sells. Welcome to humanity. Even the best of the best of brains have this weakness about them. It is because spirit is lacking!

It comes over as at cross purposes. As if we all know this....but......

I dont think that alot of people know the difference. Particularly those raised in front of a television or movie screen.
When I look at the number of people I know who cannot describe a thinking, moral ethical process outside of some movie or television program they have watched...I realize how many are living second hand vicarious lives, have thoughts and emotions which are someone elses emotions..transplanted into them through one of those mediums.

I am often given to asking myself if they are even aware of the treadmill they are on? The stimulus to which they are subconsciously responding??

Oh...and I am not interested in politics...as it is nothing more than the bartering, trading, and selling of the souls of others for lucre/power. Politics is promoting this nonsense.

Thanks,
Orangetom