Let's declare WAR! Economic War on China

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Yes. I get the impression that some posters are unaware of our somewhat undesirable position with China. It's very complicated, and not something to be toyed with, just yet. They could bring much economic havoc and harm to us; perhaps even bring us down.

It's for the diplomats to handle, and it will take a long time. But I do wish they would stop buying up our real estate.

Surely that much could be prevented.

OMG tothetenth, I just realized what you said. They might say, "well then, we'll just take Texas" or whatever. Surely not. That would indeed be hand-to-hand combat. God Forbid!

[edit on 11/23/0909 by ladyinwaiting]

reply to post by truthquest


So right now you go to Saudi Arabia and buy your oil? No you get it from wherever the Oil companies buy it. I am saying lets get more oil from our own country and quit giving our money to the Middle East. Most oil we buy now comes from Canada.

Originally posted by truthquest
reply to post by HotSauce

 

Its disturbing that someone would want to "fight for my freedom" by taking away my freedom. Lets say I want to buy oil from Saudi Arabia. Right now I have the freedom to do that. But you want to take away that freedom. People like you are the problem, not the solution.

Our economic problem absolutely nothing more than DEBT! If you want to fight an economic war then do so by paying off your debts that you owe. Since you support economic slavery of others I volunteer you to be the one to pay off my "share" of the debt, that was installed against me, and against my will.

You are absolutely wrong. Flat out in denial. By not making anything, the whole of the world will just sit back and pay us for our thoughts.
You want something or some labor not from here? Pay more for it!
Tax it, Tarrif it, Block it! Oil is a joke anyways, if we tell them to stick it, they are broke. Run your car on Water. If we had our manufactoring base still, when oil went sky high on us, we would have dumped oil.

The debt was created on a fantisy that we did not have to make anything. That thought was filed into our brains by the Elite that wanted profits and to take them offshore and not share it.

By allowing Clinton to do NAFTA, and then continueing with Bush to deregulate everything and make sure no tarrifs were on China and India, is what the American Citizens did wrong. That was the time to stand up and say NO!
All we could say is, "Look at all the Cheap Crap we can buy!"

There is only one way out of not being Third World, and or One World.
That is to work and make things again. Check out History, if you don't make, you don't eat.........


[edit on 23-11-2009 by j2000]

HotSauce,
Can you feel it?
Can you hear it?

It is like putting your ear on the track and feeling the train coming.

You can just feel the other foot coming down hard.
Obama covered his butt last week with the mention of a Double Dip. The second one will be lots harder.

Then you will see people waking up too what you suggest. Most times an addict needs to hit Rock Bottom before recovery can begin.

The Govt. is both a heavy user and a Big Time Pusher.
Debt is the drug and junk is the buzz.

Maybe we can fill some of those empty buildings in MI, IN, and OH with making things again.

Originally posted by GAOTU789
You may want to expand your declaration to include the rest of the BRIC countries. They will or are already waging economic warfare against both our countries.

Although it looks like they are just copying what Friedmanomics dictated was the best way to control countries. The US used it very affectively for the better part of a half century.

[edit on 23-11-2009 by GAOTU789]

It's too bad that more from Canada on ATS don't realize how connected we are. Mexico is another world, but you could put Canada, minus Montreal, and the USA together, and most would not know the difference.

Okay, I'm down with this, it fits in well with my My Annual Public Service Announcement.

So, what's the plan here? Midnight meeting at China-Mart for a round of molotov cocktails? Seriously, lets start a new slogan here: If you buy foreign, you're a traitor and supporter of economic terrorism against the USA! I like that, it's sounds pretty sassy too.

I remember the time people started buying Japanese cars .. and the domestic auto workers would vandalize them upon sight. Didn't take long though before Honda's started showing up in the employee parking lot at the Ford plant though.

So, how do we get everyone to go along with this economic isolationist scheme and force them back into buying over-priced American made products made by greedy undereducated union workers that want $75 an hour to tighten screws on an assembly line? I wonder how much an iPod or computer would cost if they were made by the United Computer Workers union? Yeah, ha .. good luck with your plan, you'll probably have about as much luck as me trying to warn people to skip Christmas this year and save those dollars for when you're unemployed next month.

[edit on 23-11-2009 by UmbraSumus]

reply to post by HotSauce

yep. some of our spy satellites too. yet another reason to keep a strong manufacturing and knowledge base in this country.

reply to post by ladyinwaiting

You're right. It's fragile and it's deeply entrenched. I'm no economic genius, but what's the alternative? Do we just wait around another couple of decades until they own every home and job and worker on this continent? Or do we take steps to at least try to counterbalance it now? Any country that leaves itself without defenses probably deserves what they get.

Heck, China could probably bring us to our knees by stopping shipments of batteries for a month. They have the greater balance of power here on so many levels. That can't be good.

reply to post by j2000


Yeah I feel it.. Its coming. If it is not the double dip it will be the further devaluation of the dollar and loss of jobs once they pass HC reform and/or Cap and Trade. That boot is going to drop!

reply to post by ~Lucidity


I know. I have no idea what the answer is. A good place to start would be to refuse to let them continue to bail us out of our woes, I guess.
Painful as it might be. You know they didn't "buy our debt" this year. We bought our own, apparently. There's a thread about it...somewhere.

If you want to go to fight an economic war against china. What kind of ammunitions will you bring. Do you even have any?

I'm sorry to tell you this, but you're just not good enough to fight against china, although I would love to see you people try.

The administration will probably just use india to contain china and pit them against each other. Let's just hope india can do the job for you.

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
I'm wondering if we did suddenly decide to stop buying so many Chinese products, and ticked them off; then they decided to retaliate by demanding we instantly repay our loans/debts to them, what would happen to us in that event?

They would have to get inline behind Average American Joe Tax payers!

This is about as much as many people
here at ATS know about US debt.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9aada34ec057.jpg[/atsimg]

I remember for YEARS everybody saying that Japan so owned the US
because they were at the time the largest investors.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/614bfb34f9ee.jpg[/atsimg]

Who really owns most US debt?
Foreign Investment accounts for only 29% which
includes China, Japan and the rest of the world

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f8db83721788.jpg[/atsimg]
Source

China and others are buying US debt because, despite everything, the US is seen as relatively safe investment in uncertain times. (China also likes US debt because it helps keep Chinese exports cheap.) Countries that are a bit riskier will have that reflected in a sovereign debt rating and will have to offer higher yields. But they will still have buyers at those higher yields -- either private institutions or governments that are still net creditors.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/66382a9959e6.png[/atsimg]
Real Estate: China Bubble

Chinese real estate has been booming. Since 2000, year estate investments grew 200% in China. The Chinese Claymore/AlphaShares China Real Estate ETF (TAO), which tracks Chinese Real Estate went up more tan 70% since January 2009.

Now add to that:
1. The demographic nightmare that China will soon be facing.
2. The global financial crisis which continues and China which will see little choice but to loosen its monetary policy even further, slashing Chinese economical growth and result in massive unemployment, which will lead to social instability.

If there is one thing that Europa underestimates than it’s the impact of a bursting Chinese Real Estate bubble. The bubble has grown mainly on the residential side of the market, but with Beijing’s 4 trillion yuan or 586 billion USD stimulus package, the bubble also started growing on the commercial side in 2009. Remember that China pumped worth 12,9% of its GDP in stimulus packages in 2009. By way of comparison: Brazil invested less than 2% of its GDP in stimulus packages to support growth.

With 70 percent of real estate investment in China coming from bank loans, a dramatic drop in land values could send shock waves throughout the economy.

reply to post by Jazzyguy


We're plenty good enough. You appear to be believing the fallacies spread about the U.S. I believe the U.S. STILL leads the world in patents and innovation even if you happen to build it. We still buy it back and if that stops? Well you better hope you've ridden on our coattails and on our pains long enough to be able to carry on without us,whether that is by our choice or not. Buy the "stuff" yourselves. And please don't purposely misinterpret what "fight" means in this instance. It's not a win-win for anyone if someone has to come down for someone else to come up and we all start bickering and have a more "real" war.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
I agree, and I'd include India too. Even if that only means pulling back our jobs and making some of our own "stuff" again to create more new jobs. It's really the only way.

EXACTLY! I am so tired of us simply tossing away all of our manufacturing capabilities. I am also astonished that so many complaining of our current economic state attempt to push "Green Jobs", or "Stimulus Bills", all the while the real answer emanates from exactly what you just stated. When China decides to actually launch an attack on us, which will be after they have furthered their economic grip upon us, we will be so weakened by inability to produce anything, that they might very well defeat us.

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


I guess the answer is balance. It's a catch-22 in so many ways too. Buy from China and support virtual slave labor or don't and never help them out of the horror that appears to be their daily existence? How the bleep can we help over a billion people? We can't. They have to do it. Sacrifice your child's college education so that the money can go to repay our debt to them and leave their children better equipped to compete while ours decline? Keep trading with a country whose population is through the roof until we have nothing left to trade and we, as one Indian "gentleman" told me 5 years ago, we are cleaning their toilets?

Some tell us this balance will eventually come. In the 17 years or so I worked with labor in India, their hourly rates have rose from about $5 and hour to about what ours are here now averaging at about $35, but rapidly declining.

guarnteed to last most of yuor lifetime, nearly Ide be ALL for made in america it would DEF be guaranteed free of child or sexist sweat shop labor, and be made of the upmost material Guaranteed to lasat most of your lifetime, and nearly indestructable
Sadly, the cheap made in china stuff is like driving around in a new car, assemlbed in china, made out of leggos material...coffee makers, socks,cloths you name it. I often do question the safety of all this stuff as well, in terms of chemical contamination.
In a sense, it isnt chinas fault, as soeone else here stated..they jsut took opportunity. They own now, probably well over 84% of american land* via american coporate business. Our government di that, sol it to them. Its kinda mind boggling to me...back in the 1800;s america was spreading wesward. Manifest Destiny* which to me is a dangerous word. It was manifest destiny, that took all the INdians off thir own land, nad made them live in reservation camps only allowed tobacco, alcohol and marijunna.
So, America carried out thie form of racist genocide, along wth gerneal Custard, for example, to tkae the land..only to sell it to foreign countrys? Why eliminate an entie tribe or race of people, to jsut turn around and sell it to the best deal of a bider? makes NO sense./..sounds like something hitler would have done, toned down a bit though.

reply to post by HotSauce


You can't when all our own corporations keep outsourcing our jobs to them. They'll never stop either, because that's how they get things done cheap and make the most profit off of the products....simply put we are screwed cause the people with the power to stop the madness, won't!

Originally posted by ldyserenity
reply to post by HotSauce

 

You can't when all our own corporations keep outsourcing our jobs to them. They'll never stop either, because that's how they get things done cheap and make the most profit off of the products....simply put we are screwed cause the people with the power to stop the madness, won't!

Exactly....

If anybody cares to research this. They'll notice there are plenty of American as well EU companies driving the investments in China and India. You want to combat this? Stop buying their products and services!

I needed a good laugh tonight all work and no play makes Johnny a dull boy.I would worry more about companies that sold us out for cheap labor over seas.Why do we always reward these companies??

Get rid of the lobbyists and corrupt politicians first !!!!!


What are you guys drnking tonight??