I smell here ... hmmmm ... the biggest conspiracy in human history.

Originally posted by Durabys

1) Why do archeologsts get paranoid, agressive when there is a mention of a culture or civilization that is more then 10.000 years old.

They don't get paranoid or aggressive about something for which there is absolutely no evidence. They do get fed up with people misinterpreting stuff and making up stories to con the foolish and gullible who want to believe ....

Added to which, we know of a number of cultures that date back more than 10,000 years - best known of which is Catal Hoyuk.

2) Why doctor Zari Hawass the director of Giza Plateu excavation zone gets on the absolute agressive stand when there is ever a mention of rainfall erosion on the Sfinx (last great rainfalls:11000 - 10000 bc

The last period of frequent rainfall was around 3,000 BC. Though obvious there has been plenty of rainfall since as well. So regardless of what Hawass gets aggressive about, there is no evidence based on erosion that the Sphinx dates to 10,000 BC

3) Why Archeologists go into absolute silence when someone says anything about the Serbian 3-side piramid near Sarajevo - Bosnia built 10.000 bc built out of a better material than modern concrete (super concrete)

You mean Visocica - the natural hill formed of well stratified sedimentary rock which is currently being converted into a modern giant pyramid

4)Why is there absolute silence in the MSM about radioactive debris found in old antique by "fire" destroyed cities in Pakistan and India

Because there isn't any such ancient debris



And so on. The only conspiracy is that of certain authors perpetuating lies and myths in an endless succession of badly written and very poorly researched books in order to con people out of their hard earned cash.

We are all entitled to believe who we like. But who seems more likely to be telling the truth? The man taking your money or the man who has no interest in your money?

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


You seem to place yourself as an absolute authority on ancient artifacts are you saying there is no evidence at all that man was more advanced in the past than we thought?

Or are you just assuming this OP means that it is all aliens, as that seems to be what makes you get angry.

I believe the OP is saying WE not Aliens were more advanced in the past than they are telling us.

You want Proof?

Look up the newspaper articles from the 1800s during the mining rush.

They were digging up rocks that had nails inside them. That's right nails inside the rocks. How old do you think a nail would have to be for a rock to form around it?

I am very sick of reading news articles that say "Scientists have to rethink the evoloution of man" after they dug up some new artifact. If they would stop pretending they know all and have it all figured out scientists could all colaborate better.

If it does not fit their model they ridicule it. Gotta love 'em.

Can't believe the debate this has recieved, as being bogus.

I've been to the pyramids. Have you?

I did some observations there, and researched it before hand quite extensively.

I've also read about 20 books about this stuff, both those who corrabarate (sp?) official history and those who thinks more investigation is needed.

Anyone skilled in the dogma that science builds up, and are unwilling to revise, should at least take the time to research for themselves, before questioning this, in my opinion, very valid OP.

reply to post by Ruggeder


Thank you!

I put quite a bit of evidence about what you are saying on a thread called "The Real Greatest Conspiracy" so it wouldn't get lost.

Hey guys and gals ... I will revise this ... I have made some very good answers on page 6, if you have more questions. Thanks for everybody´s posting , really.

[edit on 12/08/09 by Durabys]

Hi all, just signed up, been reading the (non)sence every day for a month now and I decided that you guys can't mis out on my opinion.

Zari Hawass is an idiot.
Since the first time I saw the guy, I always thought he was a complete imbecile. Desperately forcing his opinion upon the viewer of his work.

I am not sure if it is already posted on ATS, but please have a look at this article: Ancient Human Metropole

And then think again why this Hawass would not recognise we are a lot older then we are lead to beleve.

An emoticon for all of you to show I am a happy belever:

This is quite interesting from Jonathan Grays "DEAD MEN’S SECRETS"

The destruction of printed records has been much greater than was
originally thought.

The history of science would appear totally different were the book
collection of Alexandria intact today

Jonathan Gray "Is it any wonder we are ignorant of our early heritage? I agree with Andrew Tomas that “we have to depend on disconnected fragments, casualpassages and meagre accounts. Our distant past is a vacuum filled atrandom with tablets, parchments, statues, paintings and various artifacts. "

The great library of Alexandria once contained one million volumes in
which the entire science, philosophy and mysteries of the ancient world
were recorded (including a complete catalogue of authors in 120 volumes,
with a brief biography of each author). In a single act of vandalism, Julius
Caesar destroyed 700,000 priceless scrolls. In the seventh century, the
Arabs completed the wipeout. Do you know how they did it? They used the
books as a fuel supply to heat the city’s 400 public baths for six months.
Totally destroyed also were the papyri of the library of Ptah in Memphis.
Carthage, with a library of 500,000 volumes, was razed in a seventeen-day
fire by the Romans in 146 B.C.
The library of Pergamos in Asia Minor (with 200,000 volumes) likewise
perished.
When the famous collection of Pisistratus in Athens was wiped out (in
the sixth century). surprisingly Homer’s writings escaped.
In the eighth century, Leo Isaurus burned 300,000 books in
Constantinople. In China, Emperor Tam Shi Hwang-ti issued an edict (213
B.C.) to destroy innumerable books.
Thousands of Druidic scrolls in Autun, France, on philosophy, medicine,
astronomy and other sciences, were obliterated by Julius Caesar. Not one
survived.
Much classical literature was systematically destroyed by the papal
Inquisition.
Spanish conquerors searched out and destroyed the entire Mayan
literature (except for four documents now in European museums). It was
related that Mayan scholars screamed in agony as they saw their life’s
purpose go up in flames. Some committed suicide.
The Council of Lima (1583) decreed the burning of the knotted cords
(“quipas”) on which the Incas had recorded their history and that of their
predecessors.
What a story of carnage, in which the greatest depositories of
knowledge from the ancient world are lost forever! (Yet somehow the
Indian books escaped.) Did you know that even of the Greek and Roman
literature, less than 1 percent has come down to us?
80
Is it any wonder we are ignorant of our early heritage? I agree with
Andrew Tomas that “we have to depend on disconnected fragments, casual
passages and meagre accounts. Our distant past is a vacuum filled at
random with tablets, parchments, statues, paintings and various artifacts.

The history of science would appear totally different were the book
collection of Alexandria intact today.”

Free E book here:
curezone.com...

9 part coast to coast series with Jonathan Gray here:
www.youtube.com...





[edit on 21-11-2009 by Reevster]

Archeologists and history can hardly make a living out of scholar fields, universities and governement subsidies.

If they have a carreer in some pretigious university none of them would challenge what they have, to go against what it is acknowledge as official position on the past.

Too much controversy is harmfull and could lead to discredit, then loosing all.

Historians and archeologist are held captive by official truths.

It is easier to hide artefacts than cracking the wall of civilization as we know it. That is so convenient.

But what should be the greatest quest for mankind; where do we came from ? are we alone ? have we got a golden age previously ? Can humans have some mind abilities they can improve like telepathy ?

Knowledge is power.

These subjects do not interest publicly TPTB, nor governments. For the simple reason it would be a submission to something bigger than they are, or they can't get no control over. They are a threat.

So, they hide, and discredit in order to preserve their own powers.

They can perpetuate their behaviors without any precise advancing goals for the masses, like the dog's shepperd keeping the lambs, only happy to get a bone to crush after sunset.

Originally posted by Reevster
This is quite interesting from Jonathan Grays "DEAD MEN’S SECRETS"

The destruction of printed records has been much greater than was
originally thought.

And on que...

Dead Men's Secrets

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0c62f5028e77.png[/atsimg]

Author: Jonathan Gray

About:

Archaelogist Jonathan Gray stumbled upon something that shocked him!...a whole cache of "out of place" items that should not exist. And they weren't just in one place. There was a global pattern to them. This pattern showed a lost science and technology. That's when he knew someone had to speak up. This content was of tremendous value.

Amazon Link

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7c50a9c831dc.png[/atsimg]

File Size: 2.0 MB

There are more similar e-books in this thread:

E-Books of Interest: www.abovetopsecret.com...

There has been a well formed writing system 6.500 - 5.000 BC and they still babble about Sumerian notches as the oldest writing.

Phoenicians came from Balkan, they were called Pelasti (Palestine is called after them). They brought the alphabet with them. This alphabet was fully fledged in Vinca culture, 5.000 BC. First alphabet like system in the Balkans was conceived in Lepenski Vir (both places are at Danube near Belgrade, Serbia). In Lepenski Vir they used triangles as basic shape.

Curiously, Etruscan alphabet from 1.000 BC is completely based on Vincan (proto)alphabet.

Civilizations along the river Danube were well connected with Anatolian civilization (maybe one and same civilization). It is possible that there will be found more proofs of literacy from earlier times, maybe even as old as Gobekli Tepe (9.500 BC).

Vincan protoalphabet (3 phases)

www.omniglot.com...

Etruscan

www.omniglot.com...


All systems based on Vinca
www.omniglot.com...

Lepenski Vir and Tartaria tablets (Rumania)

www.prehistory.it...

Similar findings in Macedonia.

www.unet.com.mk...


These facts, although well supported by evidence and study, still don't have place in school and college textbooks. Why?

I'm pretty sure there is plenty of censorship going on.

Maybe the main reason for discarding those civilizations is the fact that at that time they didn't have states and oppression, slavery and so on, and did not go to war over petty possessions or psychological fears and faults... on which the accepted definition of our predatory civilization is based.

" I wrote a paper for a philosophy class. I don’t remember exactly what the assignment was—something to do with epistemology. Here’s what I said in the paper, roughly:

Guess what? The Nazis didn’t lose the war after all. They won it and flourished. They took over the world and wiped out every last Jew, every last Gypsy, black, East Indian, and American Indian. Then, when they were finished with that, they wiped out the Russians and the Poles and the Bohemians and the Moravians and the Bulgarians and the Serbians and the Croatians—all the Slavs. Then they started in on the Polynesians and the Koreans and the Chinese and the Japanese—all the peoples of Asia. This took a long, long time, but when it was all over, everyone in the world was one hundred percent Aryan, and they were all very, very happy.

“Naturally the textbooks used in the schools no longer mentioned any race but the Aryan or any language but German or any religion but Hitlerism or any political system but National Socialism. There would have been no point. After a few generations of that, no one could have put anything different into the textbooks even if they’d wanted to, because they didn’t know anything different.

“But one day two young students were conversing at the University of New Heidelberg in Tokyo. Both were handsome in the usual Aryan way, but one of them looked vaguely worried and unhappy. That was Kurt. His friend said, ‘What’s wrong, Kurt? Why are you always moping around like this?’ Kurt said, ‘I’ll tell you, Hans. There is something that’s troubling me—and troubling me deeply.’ His friend asked what it was. ‘It’s this,’ Kurt said. ‘I can’t shake the crazy feeling that there is some small thing that we’re being lied to about.’

Daniel Quinn - Ishmael

[edit on 21-11-2009 by pai mei]

Great thread op..

Secret socities have polluted everything from politics, economy, religion, science and even history. They use peer pressure and restrict funds to anyone with a thirst of knowledge to make sure nothing valuable ever gets discovered. They stall, stall, stall, stall, stall, stall PERPETUALLY!

These people deserve all the scorn, disrespect, humiliation and utter misery we can give them. I hate them with a passion! There is a saying, "you harvest what you sow" so they got it comming to them.

I never really liked science or history when I was being schooled and now that I think about perhaps fate was telling me "don't bother wasting your time with such cow manure"

My post is not intended for everyone. If you stand for truth and are willing to shed light in the middle of this great darkness then please continue on this righteous journey.

Originally posted by Unity_99


I'd say there as a really huge conspiracy and cover up being done, with no logic at all being used.

Any one of these things would have changed history and rewritten our books, except they all ignore, or say hoax for no reason, when this incredible mounting evidence is before our eyes, often carbon dated, and wonderous.



[edit on 20-11-2009 by Unity_99]

All I thought of upon reading your post was those 'youtube comment' kids yelling 'hoax' at ANYTHING they don't understand.

Hmmm, Perhaps TPTB are just a bunch of little scared children, as I always thought!

Originally posted by lpowell0627

If civilizations existed 100,000 years ago then scientists would have to explain where all of these people went. Obviously, their lineage was destroyed, their advances were destroyed, as well as any other "traces" that may have been left behind. (I am referring primarily to the lack of what we find -- considering the amount of time humans may have existed -- we should be inundated with bones, skulls, artifacts, etc.)

Its probably a case of just LETTING the evidence surface rather than hiding it.

Originally posted by lpowell0627
Now, to say that there were people that roamed the Earth back then, and subsequently disappeared, you are opening up the entire possibility that what is written in religeous texts, on the pyramids, etc. may in fact be TRUE.

I doubt religious texts are 100% accurate and even if they were/are they are often misleading or at the very least hard to comprehend.

Originally posted by lpowell0627
Imagine if the Mayan stories about wood people, etc. were true? That four entire species of humans were destroyed prior to this one?

What a can of worms that would open.

A can of worms for who? For the devil worshippers?

You cannot hide something like this and expect people(I mean anyone with a reasonable IQ) to just blindly assume the PTB have our best interest in mind by hidding inconvienient facts. For example, who is causing these mass extinctions and how?

Sometimes you have to let the cat out of the bag if you want others to help you find a solution. There is a saying "two minds are better than one".

Originally posted by lpowell0627
I've always thought that most of the references to serpents, gods, etc. from ancient texts are more likely to be cosmic events, such as meteors, CME's etc. Without technology or the capability to understand what CME's, for example, are comprised of -- I can completely understand describing it as a "serpent on fire" that extended from the heavens above.
The problem with saying that part of, any part, of the Bible, Quaran, etc. is TRUE, then people will begin to seek out WHAT ELSE within those texts is true.

Then whats the point of having organised religion if we can't learn and believe whatever we want? Some will believe everything, some will believe partially and others will not believe anything.

By severly watering down science and religion only suspicion and negativity can thrive.

Originally posted by lpowell0627
One can not say that humans have existed, and evolved, beyond what we see today. To acknowlegde that, would acknowledge the realization that at some point, our current line of humans too will disappear.

Perhaps we will disappear but why admit defeat before you even get into the ring? With that kind of LOSERS ATTITUDE we might as well just go kill ourselves now and save ourselves the torture and humiliation. Sorry but I wasn't born a quitter and I don't plan on becoming a quitter now.

Originally posted by lpowell0627
The majority of society can't handle that. Couple that with the theory about leaps in evolution occurring fully every 26,000 years -- with various changes on a smaller scale occurring at the midpoint of 12,000 years -- and viola!

Chaos.

Let society decide what it can handle and what it can't handle. Many weak people could perish but that would be good since we cannot rely on them for help and support anyway. They only get in the way of progress. Let the SPARTAN CODE take effect!

Originally posted by lpowell0627
No scientist is going to set an end date for civilization. And no, saying something along the lines of "billions of years from now" is hardly pinpointing extinction. No matter whether they say we have 5 years, 100 years, 1000 years, or 5000 years -- that will be carried throughout and eventually that society will have to deal with it. And it won't be pretty.

Oh. But indirectly they do just this very thing, preparing us for "inevitable" destruction and chaos. Do you watch mainstream "documentaries"? I am getting sick and tired of this bs propaganda being shoved down my throat everytime I turn on the tv.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Hi! This is a really good thread. The truth about Earth is facinating!
Many people lie about stuff because; (fill in the blank with what ever selfish reason imaginable). When something doesn't make sense, or the reasons are not easily apparent, you do not have the truth. The truth is simple, it makes sense. Lies are complicated and confusing. Lies are meant to mislead, misdirect, confuse, manipulate, and control. Knowledge is power. Human evil, group evil exists. The truth can be stranger than fiction. Scared, low self esteme people lie to others to make themselves feel more powerful. People who take these high powered jobs like the attention, and power they get, otherwise they have no friends. Liars
are generally very unlikeable people.

Originally posted by AnnieNakki
I too, have been wondering about what it is about pre-10000 that drives the archaeologists crazy. The water erosion of the Sphynx is the one that really provides the 'proof' in my mind. Geologists confirm it, Egyptologists deny it....vehemently. very strange.

I wonder if there wasn't at least one if not more very advanced civilizations before us. Think about it....until roughly 160 years ago or so mankind was in the stone age. Then, boom! We rapidly developed technology that can take us into space.

Who's to say that same thing didn't happen 20,000 years ago? Almost all evidence would be gone by now if it was destroyed in some cataclysm. Look at houses and buildings from as few as 50 years ago...if they aren't taken care of, they return to nature quickly. All our plastic would disintegrate over time...in 20,000 years there will be very little left to prove we were here. Maybe a few concrete structures but not much else....

I wonder if TPTB know the truth of earlier civs. and choose not to tell us for fear of panic....if we knew that we were going to be destroyed how likely would our society be of having the motivation to advance?

Curiouser and curiouser....

Annie

Thanks Annie, you have said what I have always thought. If some disaster,
like a physical polar shift hit us, what would be left for anyone in 20000 years time to find? And would they actually be living on the same land mass that we had inhabited? Or would our civilisation's remains now rest at the bottom of some ocean, which we all know covers most of the planets surface.

reply to post by Durabys


There are two reasons that archaeologists don't react well to your questions.

First and foremost, the questions you are asking have been asked and answered before. Many, many times. I could imagine that the first time they were asked, they were met with interest, and investigated, but ultimately led nowhere. When they were asked the thousandth time, considerably less enthusiasm was shown on the part of the archaeologists, and really, who could blame them. If you want to get a better reaction from them, try doing some real research and come up with an original and viable theory of your own. Simple parroting something you've found on a website won't get you very far.

Second problem, is that you're kind of telling them that they're doing a crap job, and nobody really likes that. Imagine a master carpenter, who's spent years learning his trade, being told by some yahoo, who's watched a few woodwork videos on youtube, that he's going about his current project all wrong. He'd get ticked off as well wouldn't he?

Please ask yourself: what research have you really done? Have you done anything more than read a couple of web-pages, and maybe a few fringe books? Have you really tried to look at what's been said from all angles to tease out any holes in the theories, or have you just gone with the most exciting one? Part of being a credible academic is looking at your own theories objectively. Have you done this? Really?

I can not believe how some people truly think that science and history are intentionally designed to lie to people. They make mistakes, they can't answer everything, but at least they try to move forward. And they do listen to pre-10,000 civilization ideas, at least those that have truckloads of evidence, because otherwise they would never advance. They have, countless times in the past, admitted they are wrong, if someone comes up with enough strong proof, they will have to again.

I would refer some to the following link. It appears that many new developments, that the scientific community are just beginning to embrace, are offering credible explanations.

A plasma/electric universe puts many unanswered questions on a sure footing and make almost common sense...

www.thunderbolts.info...

Out with the old.. In with the new...

A little goading never hurt a scientist to him out of the pasture.