To those who have served ... you're not all heroes

reply to post by Ulala


Why do military heads always use the excuse - "We were just doing a job.." Do they not understand this country DOES NOT give ah rats ass about them?

We all know Vet's who will back this up with guns & bibles! Don't get it twisted folks... for every Vet who says their enlistment was a positive , there are 20 who'll say this country used their youth, body, mind and soul for the negative.

History has taught us these boys who enlist for America's illegal expansion, are nothing more than cannon fodder for the political machine.

Anyone who joins the armed forces to collect a paycheck knowing fullwell they are pawns in an illegal and unethical wars has got to be crazy, brainwashed or a terrorist. --- And you all know it!

peace.

Originally posted by darkwing81
This thread is hysterical.

It was Veterans day not "Hero Worship" day!

Everyone TROLLING and slamming the armed services on [Their one day of the year] are all hypocrites. They sit there and post their self-righteous, pompous holier than thou comments FAILING to realize that they are able to sit in their tiny and insignificant patch of Earth sucking wind while criticizing those who fought for their freedom and right to be able to regurgitate their rhetoric without fear of reprisal.

Where did this freedom come from? Did it come from the Holy Roman Empire? Was it bequeathed to them by a Monarch out of the goodness of their heart? Could it have been possibly handed to them by a Megalomaniac Dictator with delusions of grandeur?

Enjoy your freedom CHILDREN.

Somebody paid for it with their blood.

Congrats on posting a whole thread of WRONGNESS. Try again when you wake up from your silly notions of "Bloodshed" and "Saving people".

I seriously think your romantic hyperbole is what is hysterical. Fall on a sword next time and film it for us.

Everyone works as a team, which makes them honored,,!!!!...

Crips and Bloods stick together as a team too. So do pirates. So do Mafias.

YAY TEAM!!

reply to post by Level X


So what have you done to stop this that you speak against?

Did you vote for Bush? If you did, you are culpable for an illegal war of aggression. (See, just because I'm a vet doesn't mean I support war or don't recognize bad policy when I see it)

Have you called your Senators or Congressperson? If not, you have failed your duty to your nation. I called every day for a month before the attack on Iraq began, emailed my senators with detailed explanations of why the idea was wrong-headed and the excuses transparently silly.

Have you tried to educate any politicians or people in a position to make changes? Ever since coming back from war I've spoken against it.

I'm really not sure why some folks are so vehemently against rendering simple respect to people who endured more than they did for whatever country they served. Yes, policies are wrong, the military is constantly misused and abused. How does that diminish what they endure?

At least give them half the respect you reserve for whatever athlete or pop star you swoon over. Just about any vet has done more for others than any three posters here bashing them, I'd warrant.

Tell me what you've done or endured that entitles you to judge and condemn people who, at the very least, have offered their life and limb in service to others? They are quite literally taking a bullet for you and you can't seem to distinguish between a well-paid mercenary (think Xe) and a citizen soldier.

Again, what have YOU done that is worthy of respect?

What have you done that wasn't directly tied to your own well-being?

Before you deny respect to those who have earned it, try earning some yourself.

I'll go out on a limb and say I don't think the 9/11 responders were heroes either. They were just doing the job they chose and were trained to do. To me the definition of hero is to go ABOVE AND BEYOND the call of duty. When you enlist in the armed forces THAT is your call of duty. Just because you are sent to war does not mean you are going ABOVE AND BEYOND. You are simply doing the job that YOU chose, that YOU were trained to do. That's all.....nothing more. Now there are folks in the military that do go above and beyond, that makes them a hero. But there are others in this world (civilian) that go above and beyond. Do we honor them????? No we don't! What about a national "volunteers" day? Now those are true heros, people who volunteer their time and/or services to chairty or needy causes when they could have spent their Saturday afternoon shopping or playing golf. I myself have three charity events I will be attending in the next month and God willing I will have enough money to make comfort packages for the women in battered womens shelters for Christmas (assuming I have the extra cash to do so). That is going ABOVE AND BEYOND what I am required to do, and while I stated I consider that a "hero" I will just consider it "paying it forward. Take care and great thread.

Originally posted by Prove_It_NOW
Congrats on posting a whole thread of WRONGNESS.

Some of us live in the real world not just in our own heads while taking up space in our parents basement.

Try again when you wake up from your silly notions of "Bloodshed" and "Saving people".

I'm wide awake. Contrary to this Elementary school yard level mentality it may help you to understand that the world is sometimes a scary violent place and that people do bad things and that not everything is a conspiracy.

I seriously think your romantic hyperbole is what is hysterical. Fall on a sword next time and film it for us.

I respect veterans more than I do you. It's very simple really, they were willing to put their arses on the line. Anybody with half a brain can sit online and take cheap jabs at somebody for doing what they believe in. I noticed that you followed me from the other thread and out of all the replies you chose mine to reply to.

I'm flattered.
People will start talking about us.

reply to post by darkwing81



Hmmm, "taking up space in parents basements"...never heard that online before.You get an "O" for originality sir. (As I sit on my balcony in my apartment smoking cigarettes.)

And I noticed you came back to the thread to notice me noticing you and "picking you out"..

Except for the fact I responded to 3 people in total, and you happened to be one. Swing and a miss......

People will talk about us? What is it with some of you military types and homo-erotic ideas?

reply to post by Cowgirlstraitup7


Attending charity events isn't going above and beyond. It's simply civic duty. Equating stuffing gift bags with working through the night thousands of miles from home, cold, hungry and uncomfortable, with the risk of death or dismemberment a constant background concern is...well, I guess I'll be polite and call it ignorant, as in lack of knowledge.

When in the military I often helped with charity events, volunteered at orphanages, and I certainly wasn't alone. Kinda hard for me to understand why you would think such things were equivalent.

Again, for the record: no vets here have claimed herohood, that's a straw man argument used as a pretext to bash veterans in general rather than offering simple respect. That's really all we ask: not your thanks or your money, just acknowledgment that we did some things you couldn't or wouldn't do, and did them for mostly decent, if misguided, reasons.

If you can count an athlete a hero for nothing more than athletic skill, what does it say of you and your values that you hold in contempt people who risk their lives not for money or personal glory, but for reasons you can't bring yourself to acknowledge may be valid and honorable for them? Maybe that's why you can't respect them: they didn't do it for personal gain.

Originally posted by AY6111306
I disagree with the manner in which our military has been directed to engage in both Iraq and Afghanistan. I believe we have forgotten the true purpose of our military.

I also know that American men and women who served in any branch of the Armed Forces did so to protect the rights and freedoms that exist [STILL] in America no different than those who came before and carved out this great nation to begin with. If you want to bash the government/politicians, go right ahead. If you want to scream and holler about all that is messed up in America today, go right ahead. If you want to tie every oddity, problem, mistake, issue, etc. into one big nasty world ending conspiracy theory, go right ahead. Then, when you stop and take a break from your moaning and groaning, find someone in the military or someone who served, and thank them. Without THEM, your right to gripe and protest would be non-existent. You can have genius upon genius draft brilliant ideas and philosphies, none of which have ever been, or would currently be, able to be implemented without the protective arms of citizens in uniform.

Thank the 1% of the population that has made it possible for the other 99% (along with non-citizens) to partake of the benefits afforded by this great and blessed nation! God Bless the United States of America and those citizens brave enough to wear the uniform and put their lives on the line to protect what is STILL the greatest nation on Earth.

I agree with you on respecting the military. And, I also agree that its the military that grants most of our freedoms. However, your idea that this is STILL the greatest country on earth is a matter of opinion. I've been to enough places to know that we aren't nearly as free or as fortunate as your post makes this place out to be. There are many other countries where TRUE FREEDOM is exercised and they can literally do thousands of things in their country that would get you and I locked up in a cell. Blind patriotism is no more of a use to our country's current situation than the OP's attack against veterans. Keep a good eye out because not everything is done in our best interests.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Lurch

Also no veteran since WW2 has defended my freedoms in any way. If all the wars since 1945 were never fought, I'd still have the same number of freedoms than I do today, if not more.

Unless you have lived in the Antarctic you are sadly mistaken. If you live in Europe there are plenty of Veterans, Europeans as well as Americans who stood watch over Western Europe in the face of the USSR and Warsaw Pact countries.

Thank God there was not a shooting war.

Exactly. We should have just laid a Welcome mat out at the far end of the Fulda Gap, packed our bags and came home. The most likely outcome of such action would be that the Soviet Union would have absorbed Europe and it's industrial base, and thus would never have collapsed. Lurch would be typing his nonsense in cyrillic.

I bet the Russians would at least have been grateful for it. The same can't be said of what we have now.

reply to post by Ulala


It sure is nice to be able to use that freedom of speech other people died to give you, isn't it?

It's great to have the freedom of expression to be able to insult people who strap up and put their lives on the line every day, even if they don't agree with the politics or the war and still have to go fight it anyway.

When your nation tells you to strap up and go risk your life it doesn't matter if it's WW2, Vietnam or the War on Terror. The dead are just as dead, the arms and legs blown off all look the same and the blood is just as red as it was then.

Yep, it's great to be able to shoot your mouth off without having to stand face to face with the person you're insulting. Then again, every man and woman in uniform who read you post knows exactly who and what you are.

Everyone who puts their ass on the line for me and mine is a hero - soldier, cop, fireman, paramedic or Mr / Mrs Joe Citizen who step up and save a life or stop a death now and then. Your politics really have nothing to do with it.

When they start making wars an elective for troops then maybe guys like you will step up and serve. I'll stop short of saying what I really think of you, it would be a huge TOC violation if I could even bypass the censor.

To all who have served. Your blood was not in vain. For we are in your debt. It is you who have saved us. Past, Present, and future. We are still here. Waiting with all emotions for you to return to us. God bless you.

reply to post by allclear


I know this thread is a long one. I am diligently trying to read every post, but could not help but stop and commend you for the most astute thing I have heard from anyone, vet or not.

The US is a killing machine under the control of inbred, arrogant, wealth elitists. As soon as you figure that out, you will see what few other like myself see.

Very well put. I do wish more people understood that before signing up.

I've always had trouble understanding why we celebrate those who mindlessly murder innocents in their own land for the rich and for those that couldn't care less. But just one of the mysteries of this cracker jesus fried land that is more about hype and lies than any kind of substance or reality. I mean you were a slave for a number of years of you life and your job was to murder people you've never met and had no personal grievance with and to destroy other cultures and societies. Wow, that deserves a holiday.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by CuriousSkeptic]

Something that makes me piss myself with laughter is every time one of these little nancyboys from Europe complains about "American Imperialism" is the fact that they probably wouldn't have even been conceived had it not been for the massive American deterrent of nuclear weapons poised along the border of east Germany during the cold war. It seems to slip their little minds that the only thing coming between 200,000 Soviet Tanks and an insane amount of Soviet soldiers rolling straight across Europe were those "big bad imperialist Americans".

When I see the kiddies on these boards, who are still very wet behind the ears, compare soldiers to terrorists, all I can do is thank the National Guard for Kent State and dead hippie protesters. Nice shooting fellas.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by Jocko Flocko]

reply to post by Jocko Flocko

all I can do is thank the National Guard for Kent State and dead hippie protesters. Nice shooting fellas.

????????????????

Hmm, it seems like someone's military brainwashing was quite thorough. Not a scrap of human decency left.

I hadn't realized that Canada's military was that advanced.

I agree that not all fighters are heroes.

But I still think they are brave.

A lot of young people join the forces because that represents a job, which a lot of young people cannot get.

Young people have no idea of what they will face in the armed forces.

But anyone who sticks with it is brave, in my opinion.

Even though our governments are misguided. This is not the fault of the brave people in the armed forces.

Originally posted by CuriousSkeptic
I've always had trouble understanding why we celebrate those who mindlessly murder innocents in their own land for the rich and for those that couldn't care less. But just one of the mysteries of this cracker jesus fried land that is more about hype and lies than any kind of substance or reality. I mean you were a slave for a number of years of you life and your job was to murder people you've never met and had no personal grievance with and to destroy other cultures and societies. Wow, that deserves a holiday.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by CuriousSkeptic]

If they did not do it, then a draft could make you the one doing it. So for that give them thanks.

"Crackerjesusfried",

Cracker: Bread of the toasting process, goes great with soup.

Jesus: One who is associate with title of Lord and Savior.

Fried:Scoured by oil, till done and sooooo delicious.

Oh and about the no personal grievance. No one can do that with no personal grievance. How dare you. Someone like you could not begin to understand the likes of grievance. Sitting on your throne of all knowledge which, I can tell, you have no knowledge of a warrior. These men new what could happen. Their honor and bravery are of the likes that someone as you will never experience. To love enough to protect oneself is what you know. To love enough to protect ones country is what they will know. So when you think about saying something bad about the boy's and girl's who will go to the front line while you sip your drink and watch television, make sure it's the truth.

@Eulala,

Speaking AS a veteran, I can only say that you have a totally warped sense of what a soldier does. We follow orders handed down from superior officers, who got their marching orders from a CIVILIAN. A CIVILIAN that was ELECTED by the U.S. Population. We all took an oath to support and defend our Constitution. There was no language in the oath to the effect "but I will only follow those orders I agree with."

I was in the Persian Gulf 1990-1991, and I did exactly what I was supposed to. I am not ashamed for having voluntarily served. I don't know that I agree with the reason we were sent there (at least not the PUBLIC reason), but that is IRRELEVANT!

A veteran is a veteran, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. At any given moment, you might be ordered into harm's way. It's a kick in the teeth all the more so to read your words, being as my service was VOLUNTARY.

How about you put your money where your mouth is and YOU can dodge bullets and IED's next time, okay? The rest of us have DONE OUR PART - we've done our duty, and not ONE of us has any reason to believe ourselves a "hero." We knew what we were getting into when we joined, and we rose to the challenge. We were simply doing our jobs, no more, no less.

Without people who willingly join the military, (ie: if it were compulsory), we'd not have as much to be proud of. BUT - since we were volunteers, it seems like a simple "thank you" would be appropriate instead of comparing us to HITLER! I realize you're not American, which makes your post enrage me even more!

I was greeted by a long-haired hippie war protester when I deplaned at Dulles, who spat on my uniform. Instead of choking him out, I instead just wiped the spittle off my uniform, handed him the napkin, said "you're welcome, A-hole," and walked off.

It's fine to object to a WAR itself, but you darn well best support the ones voluntarily fighting on your behalf, since they are the reason you are able to sit at your computer and post garbage like this. Otherwise, it'll be YOU and people LIKE YOU who get to go play in the sandbox next go-around!

Originally posted by Conclusion

Originally posted by CuriousSkeptic
I've always had trouble understanding why we celebrate those who mindlessly murder innocents in their own land for the rich and for those that couldn't care less. But just one of the mysteries of this cracker jesus fried land that is more about hype and lies than any kind of substance or reality. I mean you were a slave for a number of years of you life and your job was to murder people you've never met and had no personal grievance with and to destroy other cultures and societies. Wow, that deserves a holiday.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by CuriousSkeptic]

If they did not do it, then a draft could make you the one doing it. So for that give them thanks.

"Crackerjesusfried",

Cracker: Bread of the toasting process, goes great with soup.

Jesus: One who is associate with title of Lord and Savior.

Fried:Scoured by oil, till done and sooooo delicious.

Oh and about the no personal grievance. No one can do that with no personal grievance. How dare you. Someone like you could not begin to understand the likes of grievance. Sitting on your throne of all knowledge which, I can tell, you have no knowledge of a warrior. These men new what could happen. Their honor and bravery are of the likes that someone as you will never experience. To love enough to protect oneself is what you know. To love enough to protect ones country is what they will know. So when you think about saying something bad about the boy's and girl's who will go to the front line while you sip your drink and watch television, make sure it's the truth.

Cracker Jesus Fried is the perfect description of America. But you've shown critical thinking or abstract though isn't your strong suit.




Heroes. Hooray for hired murders (which in case you didn't know, is what a military is)

Anyway continue your ignorant blah blah chest beating.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by CuriousSkeptic]