To those who have served ... you're not all heroes

Originally posted by vermonster

Originally posted by Bombeni
reply to post by Ulala

 

If you said that yellow-bellied sapsucker trash to my face I'd wash your mouth out good.

Well then you do not understand what freedom is.

Oh yes I do. I didn't say he couldn't say it to my face, I just told him what I'd do to him if he did.

Originally posted by Bombeni


Oh yes I do. I didn't say he couldn't say it to my face, I just told him what I'd do to him if he did.

Then you are a criminal.

Originally posted by jam321

I don't think you're all heroes.

Might surprise you, but many of us don't think about ourselves as heroes either.

Just ordinary Americans volunteering to do a job for the country that we love.

Volunteering? Dont you receive salary, housing, medical aid, item discounts, contracts and otther things...how is that volunteering? You are getting paid to do a job and you are doing it. Noone does anything for anyone free of cost.
All the shady defense deals, bribing is handeled by army officers only even after they get their salaries.

Dont pay salary to anyone and stop all discounts and free housing and other facilities to ppl in army and then we can see who is the "volunteer".

reply to post by apacheman


You're just a dumb veteran that lost the war and got played. The whole purpose of the Vietnam war was a bogus domino theory. If Vietnam fell to communism, then an entire domino series of countries would become communist. Well Vietnam did become communist, and it still is. And guess what. No series of countries fell, and the US wasn't threatened whatsoever.

You just go played. You got played hard by the think tanks that indoctrinated you with paranoid game theory. You just don't want to admit it. And for that 50k Americans and 1 million Vietnamese lost their lives for nothing. NOTHING.

Apacheman,

If I knew how to do this star and flag thing, I would walk from the UK and pin them on your proud chest personally.


I've been quietly following this thread and deliberatley not wanting to post, mostly becasue of the OPs troll like motives.

No true soldier declares himself a hero, that platitude is always for others to bestow. Throughout conflict there will always be exceptional calls of duty way above and beyond what the average soldier can ever dream to attain, that is until it his his turn to be in a position requiring a great dead. Then the soldier willl gladly do what he feels - his duty!

this is a position that a "keyboard warrior" will never find himself in therfore would never understand the sentiment or sacrifice made

politicians decide on war after a breakdown in diplomacy and communications. Soldiers carry out orders regardless. simplisticly, these are what freedoms and oppressions are based upon

It is absolute stupidity to denegrate the courages acts and bravery of its soldiers in wars fought since WWII as with any war it is only the desired political outcome that changes not the courage of the combatants.

I have fought alongside a professional army and a conscripted army and both have showed considerable abilities in military aptitude and also every man holds a high moral value and patriotism to his own countries freedom.

OP be thankful you where born where the use of soldiers has gained you vast freedoms and not the oppressions that the vast majority of Europe endured for the greater part of the last century

I don't think the OP is trolling, I don't think to much attention has been taken away from vets by posting this on ATS so I wouldn't says he's trying to steal their attention. Also what I think is that the media is making direct comparison with ww1 and ww2 and Afghanistan and Iraq especially in sympathy adverts. And whilst the soldiers may not see themselves in the same way, it is this media comparison that annoys me.

For now if I wear a poppy, it is not just ww1 and 2, it is Afghanistan and Iraq I am supporting, and I am not for either of the latter wars. I am not against the soldiers that go there, but the soldiers fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan had a choice, where as the people fighting in ww1 &2 had no choice they were anyone that was old enough and fit enough, and some cases not even that.


So I do not like how this "help for heroes" and remembrance day has merged. It's a sly move, by a government that is still unsure of its peoples views on the current "war". For me, when I see a poppy I think of equal wars, not just invasions, I think of everyman for themselves on battles fields and the hell it must have been. want to help your heroes? Then send them back home.

reply to post by radio_for_peace

You're just a dumb veteran that lost the war and got played.

strong fighting words for someone who calls them self "radio for PEACE"

All of those out there who have the comprehension of a 3rd grader, and hate our veterans in these manners, allow me to leave you with one thought:

Without our vets and current men & women in uniform, our enemies would swarm the banks of the US like flies to manure. They'd cut your head off, and mine, simply because we were born American.

Yes, you have the right to not show respect to our troops for the personal sacrifices they made (you sacrifice a lot when you leave your family behind to go join the military)

But why can't you have the civility...the decency....no no, the maturity to at least not call them dumb idiots, among many other names, like some tweaked out 12 year old who wasn't forced to take his Ritalin?




[edit on 12-11-2009 by Snarf]

reply to post by radio_for_peace

You're just a dumb veteran that lost the war and got played. The whole purpose of the Vietnam war was a bogus domino theory.

The war was undoubtedly for the benefit of the US defense industry and the politicians of the day. But the grunts who fought it were more than that, just as individuals. They were more than that for those who actually tried to live the the notion of keeping that nation free. They were more than that because they fought... not just to save their own lives, but those of their comrades. They were more than that because even if the ideal itself was a facade, they were there in the name of it regardless.

If you must blame... blame those who conceived the conflict and those who profited from it. But the ones who did the dirty work... who lived and died the ideal in the jungles and the muddy trenches... they are not now or have they ever been deserving of such derision.

We were not murders... you have watched too many movies.

Put down your keyboard and try wearing the boots before you pass judgment.

Something everyone seems to have forgotten -

If the allied military machine turned round to its' governments one day and said "I'm not fighting this war - it's unjust!", the world would be a different place.

The soldiers & civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan are losing their lives for corporate greed, and political maneuvering. Nothing more, nothing less.

If military morale was so low, or their reasons to fight were so obliterated, that they couldn't fight - what would happen? The allied governments would have to pull them out, and hang their heads in shame.

I say bash on the military at every chance we can get. Stop young people joining them. Ruin their public image. Scupper their morale support at every turn. Campaign to cut their funding. Then they will either lose heart and come home, or enough of them will get killed that our governments have no choice but to bring them back.

We don't want them there - but then the peoples' wishes don't matter any more do they?

This isn't a war against a proper enemy - this is a war to line certain peoples pockets.

The Para.

What kind of freedoms are you people talking about? The freedom to steal taxpayer money to bail out banks so they can give their ceo's billions in bonuses?

Or maybe you're talking about the freedom for warrantless wiretaps, widespread surveillance, projects such as echelon and carnivore, etc?

Or maybe you're talking about the freedom to steal the presidential election where widespread voter fraud was found in the two bush elections?

oh, yeah, I know, you're talking about the freedom to force vaccinate the public.

And yeah, I have been around the world, so I know what freedoms are. Just last month, the french went out into the streets and blocked up entire streets with burning tires and cars. A while back, a bunch of chinese farmers rioted and closed down the city. I won't even mention South America where they readily go out into the streets and block downtown for days.

You try that in the US, and you'll get shot, tazered in the face, beat up, your ribs broken, and suicided, and then sent a bill for police assault. Land of the free...maybe if you're sleeping.

Originally posted by vermonster
Wars are orchestrated by the wealthy to make money.

If you served, you most likely volunteered because you felt it was your duty to uphold the freedoms most of us take for granted, not to help old Mr Rothschild make a buck.

Thank you to all who have served for your intentions were most likely good.

Know that you were played like a record, round and round.

LOL. Wars have been endured since the beginning of time, but suddenly vermonster has the answer to it all. "Don't let those mean rich people make war" --- Right, gotcha.



[edit on 12-11-2009 by Bombeni]

Originally posted by Parallex
Something everyone seems to have forgotten -

If the allied military machine turned round to its' governments one day and said "I'm not fighting this war - it's unjust!", the world would be a different place.

The soldiers & civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan are losing their lives for corporate greed, and political maneuvering. Nothing more, nothing less.

If military morale was so low, or their reasons to fight were so obliterated, that they couldn't fight - what would happen? The allied governments would have to pull them out, and hang their heads in shame.

I say bash on the military at every chance we can get. Stop young people joining them. Ruin their public image. Scupper their morale support at every turn. Campaign to cut their funding. Then they will either lose heart and come home, or enough of them will get killed that our governments have no choice but to bring them back.

We don't want them there - but then the peoples' wishes don't matter any more do they?

This isn't a war against a proper enemy - this is a war to line certain peoples pockets.

The Para.

If we turned on the government, that would be a coup, and that is also illegal.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by radio_for_peace


"Dumb veteran"?

Hard to know how to reply to that.

I left the military after concluding that what was going on was immoral, wrong-headed, and something I couldn't honestly support, despite the years I had already spent. I discovered the difference between a warrior and a soldier: a soldier answers to his or her superiors, a warrior must answer to him/herself. And I acted upon my convictions, even though it cost me a great deal in many ways you probably can't comprehend.

I have used my experience since to convince a lot of youngsters that military service is not a lark, that it is something that will change one forever, even if you never see combat, that it is something not to be entered into lightly, for the miltary is frequently misused and abused, and folks seldom understand much of anything about it. My advice has always been not to join unless you think it through pretty thoroughly first and understand what you're getting yourself into.

It is because I am a veteran that I can KNOW these things as facts, not theories, and that lends a weight to my words that nothing else can.

Veterans know a lot more about the way the world actually works than non-veterans do because their lives depend upon knowing things that others would rather not. "Dumb veteran" strikes me as breathtakingly oxymoronic, since if you're dumb the chances of surviving to BE a veteran are pretty damned small.

One thing most of us realized somewhere along the line is that if someone's never been on the pointy end of the stick, they will never, ever, understand or appreciate what's been done for them.

And it's ok. It means we've done our job.

reply to post by redoubt


I don't need to wear the boots just like I don't need to get hit by a car to know it sucks. Don't get me wrong. I dn't hate the people who serve in the military. I respect them like I respect life and liberty, but you should know that what they're doing is wrong, and more people should stand up against it. I'm not going to put lipstick on a pig and say it's so beautiful just because everyone else is doing it.

Originally posted by eikmun

This website is filled with morons.

[edit on 12-11-2009 by eikmun]

It can't be that bad...you joined up a few days ago.

I find it makes for a better thread if you don't call people retards. Yes people act like it sometimes, i'm sure i've had my moments too in the past, but constructive debate is usualy the best option on this site.

Hope you don't mind me passing that on.

CX.

I disagree with the manner in which our military has been directed to engage in both Iraq and Afghanistan. I believe we have forgotten the true purpose of our military.

I also know that American men and women who served in any branch of the Armed Forces did so to protect the rights and freedoms that exist [STILL] in America no different than those who came before and carved out this great nation to begin with. If you want to bash the government/politicians, go right ahead. If you want to scream and holler about all that is messed up in America today, go right ahead. If you want to tie every oddity, problem, mistake, issue, etc. into one big nasty world ending conspiracy theory, go right ahead. Then, when you stop and take a break from your moaning and groaning, find someone in the military or someone who served, and thank them. Without THEM, your right to gripe and protest would be non-existent. You can have genius upon genius draft brilliant ideas and philosphies, none of which have ever been, or would currently be, able to be implemented without the protective arms of citizens in uniform.

Thank the 1% of the population that has made it possible for the other 99% (along with non-citizens) to partake of the benefits afforded by this great and blessed nation! God Bless the United States of America and those citizens brave enough to wear the uniform and put their lives on the line to protect what is STILL the greatest nation on Earth.

Originally posted by Parallex
Something everyone seems to have forgotten -

If the allied military machine turned round to its' governments one day and said "I'm not fighting this war - it's unjust!", the world would be a different place.

The soldiers & civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan are losing their lives for corporate greed, and political maneuvering. Nothing more, nothing less.

If military morale was so low, or their reasons to fight were so obliterated, that they couldn't fight - what would happen? The allied governments would have to pull them out, and hang their heads in shame.

I say bash on the military at every chance we can get. Stop young people joining them. Ruin their public image. Scupper their morale support at every turn. Campaign to cut their funding. Then they will either lose heart and come home, or enough of them will get killed that our governments have no choice but to bring them back.

We don't want them there - but then the peoples' wishes don't matter any more do they?

This isn't a war against a proper enemy - this is a war to line certain peoples pockets.

The Para.

I don't even know what to think anymore, these young people are wacko from too many gory movies and drugs, lazy parents who failed to work at teaching them respect, a combination of all.

You want to live in a country where the troops decide when and when not to obey their military commands? Then you ought to bail out now if you live in the USA because that will never happen, thank God.

Do you even have an inkling idea what would happen to you and the freedom you love if our military became derelict?

Calgon take me the sh*t away.

The thing that shakes me the most is not the liberal cowerd OP but all the people that agree with him.They are starting to come out of the woodwork now with the empty suit in charge.This is starting to remind me of comeing home after Nam.I had respect for some of anitwar people because they would get in your face with there retoic so you had a chance to pay your respects back to them.

I don't think the ones doing the talking today have the "B---S" that the kids in the 60s and 70s had,they use the internet and blogs to do there ridaculling,kind of like the little kids that call someone on the phone and then hang up.

I have to ask,how many of you whinners actuelly go out into the world and do something or try to make a differance with your liberal progressive attitude or are you all just mouth?

One mans criminal ia another mans patriot.