To those who have served ... you're not all heroes

I will fight to protect my nation and family. I will also fight to protect those who are incapable of effectively fighting for themselves. In order for a war to be "illegal", you would have to recognize international law. International law is a complete joke because those who "enforce" it usually have absolutely no moral standing (like the UN). Would I fight to expand my nation's influence if I thought my nation's influence was for the betterment of mankind? You bet I would, and I have. Would I go to foreign lands and kill people I considered evil even if they were not a direct threat to me or my family? Sure, I have and would again. If "god" gives humans like members of HAMAS the "right to live", let god enforce that right. I do not recognize it.

Oh how the mighty have fallen.


To think... Being a member of the Collective armed services used to MEAN something.

It USED TO BE ABOUT protecting freedoms.

It is not about Freedom now, it is not about defending rights now...

It is about Protecting the Profit margins of a few super wealthy stockholders.


You can wax poetic about those in the armed forces "Serving Their Country" and "Sacrificing so that we can be free"

But it is all a steaming load of horseh**.



Do you remember the days when people KNEW why they were signing up?

Do you remember the time when those who served knew EXACTLY WHAT FREEDOMS they were protecting?

Who they were protecting those freedoms AGAINST?


Do any of YOU know what freedoms those brave men and women of the armed service of the past PROTECTED?


The right to speak your mind, on any subject, no matter how unpopular, and remain free.

The right to believe what you wish, and remain alive.

The right to keep the fruits of your labors, and to guard them against theft from whomever may abscond with them.

THE RIGHT TO QUESTION THE MOTIVES OF THOSE IN POWER.

*THE DUTY TO QUESTION THE MOTIVES OF THOSE IN POWER*

THE RIGHT TO NOT BE FORCED TO PLEDGE YOUR LIFE TO FIGHT FOR A CAUSE THAT YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IS JUST!

Tell me...


What soldier now serving, questions WHOM they are serving?


Do they believe that one can serve freedom, by killing for profit?

Do they believe they can serve liberty, and justice, by forcibly violating the RIGHT TO PROPERTY of other nations resources for the benefit of the total consolidation of all wealth into the hands of plutocratic oligarchs?


Is this how they chose to serve the constitution, freedom, and honor?


Or did that QUESTION never enter their minds?


The United States wars of aggression, and occupations are UNJUST, and UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

IT is plain to see for those who have eyes to see, and ears to hear, and a MIND to think.


How dare you tell me that they fight for Freedom...

If they REALLY wished freedom... they would have LEARNED what they would be called to do, who they would be called to fight...

IF they really wished freedom, they would have made DAMN SURE that FREEDOM is what they were fighting for.

In times of Tyranny, Patriots do not join the military.


"The call to Serve"


PSHAW!

SERVE WHAT? SERVE WHO?


If you are not going to bother to find out WHY you are fighting... then you SHOULD NOT FIGHT.


-Edrick

Originally posted by NEWclearMind
reply to post by Ulala

 

While you sit their hefting your queens jewels. ( why do you have a queen anyway? What do you live in 1312 chasing dragons with a catapult?) we are ridding the world of extremists. Read history, Europe used to be the most extreme. You guys killed a lot of people during the crusades. By the way, you guys would be speaking German if it wasn't for the USA. I hope your country of no good, limey, standing in bread-lines, bad teeth having, nanny staters get taken over by the hordes of Muslims and then we'll nuke you out of your misery. This is not your holiday. It's ours. I really hope you enjoy being second rate at everything.

Ignorance is bliss

Peace.

Being active now, and seeing what the Air Force would consider 'action' I am not a hero. However, I wonder, do you think that the women of Iraq and Afghanistan should be left to fend for themselves? Do you think that as Enlisted and Commissioned men and women we get to decide where we go? No, please consult your local constitution and you will find that almost every democratic country allows civilians like you with next to no military service to tell us where to go. We, the men and women who defend you, willingly allow you, the citizen, to put us in the line of fire for your reasons.

Am I a hero? No, I do my job. I think that Cops and Fire fighters and EMTs are heroes, they save peoples lives every day. But please don’t discount what we do, which is to be a major thing that would-be tyrants consider before killing off people because they don’t agree with them as a race. Please remember that it is us, the military that respond in mass to build sandbag levees and it is us that deploy to Africa and south East Asia to provide medical assistance and construction support. Do you want to go to the Congo and get shot at by rebels because you are building a school or giving a kid a shot to protect them from polio? Do you want to get shot at in the Middle East for repaving a road that people rely on to get from the village to the one working hospital for the next 500 miles? Do you want to come under fire for laying pipes to pump fresh water to a hamlet that has never known such a thing?

No, you don’t, you leave that to us, and a select few civilian volunteers who go off to rebuild war torn countries and die every day because they want to give some kid who is living in a war torn hellscape the chance to walk in a field with out getting her leg blown off. To go to school, to not die of an illness that we in the west have all but cured, to be able to eat fresh food, to be able to stay with mom and dad and not be sold into sex slavery. People like you like to point out that we are not heroes, and your right. But to say that we in the military do nothing of value today is flat out wrong. If you would like to see what we really do, please feel free to enlist for 4 years in a Civil engineering, medical or security unit. You'll get first hand experience of the valueless things that a modern military is required by law to do.

I am sorry about the wall of text, but seeing the coffins come to Bagram Air Base, not with infantry, but with CE and Med troops, from the US, UK and Egypt at the time really brings it into focus what we are doing.

[edit on 12-11-2009 by Obinhi]

reply to post by Ulala


anybody who signs up to put thier life on the line in my book, is a hero... be grateful there are people out there willing to die so that you can bash them.

reply to post by LiveForever8
ouT
You must be speaking from experience. I really never felt ignorant. I feel a great sense of wisdom. But what do I know. I live in a country where we have a strong backbone. Even if we have gotten a little fat ove the years with needless crap. Our core is still here and still strong. You don't her a lot about our core. But when the te is right, the core will come out. You guys however are, and always will be a joke. I would hate to go through life eating tea and crumpets and waiting for the next SOCCER match. Have fun with that. By the way if you can't understand stereotypes and sarcasm, I feel you. I think British humor such as Monty python is retarded. So, when in Rome!

Fortuna Favet Fortibus
look it up.
It will help you understand why you guys lost the American revolution.

By the way Fortuna Fabet Fortibus was the motto for the submarine I served on. I would love for you bashers to serve on one, without sunlight, for an extended period of time. I am not a hero. But blanket statements are just plain dumb. I volunteered. I was not forced. I joined before 9/11. So, still not a hero. I didn't feel the urge to help anyone out but myself. I am still not a hero. I wanted to learn nuclear engineering and see the world. Let's see, I'm still not a hero.


HOWEVER, if the time arose that I needed to put my life on the line for any of my ship
mates, or you. I would. But you know what? I still wouldn't want to be called a hero.

By the way, when the Russian sub Kirsk sunk, our captain came ove the 1MC and told us all. There was not a dry face. We respect all who serve, whether it's a cook or a scout sniper. They sacrafice more than you guys will eer know.

You try losing an uncle and a grandmother and not finding out for 2 months. It sucks.

I am not a hero. I got out. But they are.

This thread is hysterical.

It was Veterans day not "Hero Worship" day!

Everyone TROLLING and slamming the armed services on [Their one day of the year] are all hypocrites. They sit there and post their self-righteous, pompous holier than thou comments FAILING to realize that they are able to sit in their tiny and insignificant patch of Earth sucking wind while criticizing those who fought for their freedom and right to be able to regurgitate their rhetoric without fear of reprisal.

Where did this freedom come from? Did it come from the Holy Roman Empire? Was it bequeathed to them by a Monarch out of the goodness of their heart? Could it have been possibly handed to them by a Megalomaniac Dictator with delusions of grandeur?


Enjoy your freedom CHILDREN.

Somebody paid for it with their blood.

America wet the bed when terrorists crashed two planes into two buildings. Imagine the panic and hysteria if an actual war was fought on American soil. It doesn't bear thinking about.

I would like the vets posting in this thread to give examples of how US military action in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan "protected the freedoms" of US citizens thousands of miles away?

I guess your cowardly actions "protected the freedoms" of the Iraqis and Vietnamese whose children you bombed, killed and maimed? I met an Iraqi boy, aged 16, who had to bring up his two younger sisters by himself because his parents had been killed by American bombs. He is a true hero in my eyes. How do you military "heroes" live with yourselves? The American soldiers who fought in WW1 and WW2 have all my respect but I am sure many will be turning in their graves at the actions of the US military since and also those who disrespect their allies who stood shoulder to shoulder as an allied force in WW2. To suggest that the United States freed Europe all by herself is to spit on the graves of all the other soldiers who died for the cause, the millions of Russians, British, Canadians, Australians, French etc et etc. Britain stood alone against the Nazis for 2 years and no Nazi took one step on the British mainland.

You people disgust me. As I fell silent to mark my respect for Armistice Day, my thoughts were leant to the brave soldiers who fought in WW1 and WW2 and all the victims of those wars and later wars, the innocent Iraqis, the Afghans, the Vietnamese and all those people whose lives have been devastated by American foreign policy - the Nicaraguans, the Chileans etc etc. My thoughts were certainly not with the brainwashed idiots who walk into pointless, evil wars like sheep to the slaughter, who claim to be heroes "fighting for our freedoms" but in reality are nothing but pawns for companies like Haliburton, the military industrial complex and sick rich men who get their kicks from starting wars and killing brown people thousands of miles away from home.

Originally posted by NEWclearMind
reply to post by LiveForever8

 

ouT
You must be speaking from experience. I really never felt ignorant. I feel a great sense of wisdom. But what do I know. I live in a country where we have a strong backbone. Even if we have gotten a little fat ove the years with needless crap. Our core is still here and still strong. You don't her a lot about our core. But when the te is right, the core will come out. You guys however are, and always will be a joke. I would hate to go through life eating tea and crumpets and waiting for the next SOCCER match. Have fun with that. By the way if you can't understand stereotypes and sarcasm, I feel you. I think British humor such as Monty python is retarded. So, when in Rome!

Fortuna Favet Fortibus
look it up.
It will help you understand why you guys lost the American revolution.

Hahahaha what a loser. Jesus, in terms of culture and history, America is still in puberty compered to England. Please don't choke on moms apple pie will you.

reply to post by NEWclearMind


Wisdom?

While you sit their hefting your queens jewels. ( why do you have a queen anyway? What do you live in 1312 chasing dragons with a catapult?)

By the way, you guys would be speaking German if it wasn't for the USA.

I hope your country of no good, limey, standing in bread-lines, bad teeth having, nanny staters get taken over by the hordes of Muslims and then we'll nuke you out of your misery. This is not your holiday. It's ours. I really hope you enjoy being second rate at everything.

You sound like a child, maybe you are. Or maybe you have the mind of a child.

I would hate to go through life eating tea and crumpets and waiting for the next SOCCER match. Have fun with that.

MacDonald's, NFL, Paris Hilton, Obama, Bush, NFL...blah blah blah.

By the way if you can't understand stereotypes and sarcasm, I feel you. I think British humor such as Monty python is retarded. So, when in Rome!

Sarcasm? Never heard of it......

Fortuna Favet Fortibus

Sona si Latine loqueris.

Peace.

Don't blame the ones in uniform - blame the ones who aren't.

The folks that KNOW these wars are unjust, illegal and totally benefiting corporate agendas are the ones who raise others to "hero" status

The folks that survive by benefiting from the Military Industrial Complex are the ones who raise others to "hero" status

The warmongers and chickenhawks who would never in their lifetime raise a finger to defend anything but themselves but see it is "our duty" to blindly send others to fight that fight are the ones who raise others to "hero" status.

And finally - the piece-of-# retailers and capitalist lampreys that use this day as an excuse to have a sale or imprint their branding upon the public are the ones who raise others to "hero" status.

reply to post by thesneakiod


I'm glad you like to joke about 9/11 with avatar pics like that. It shows a lot of class. I wouldn't expect anything else from someone from Europe. There is a reason you guys can't win a war by yourselves.
Here's a hint:
it's the opposite of I'm smart!


It's truly amazing to me that you have survived in this life long enough to learn to type. Don't forget to breathe.

I think some people need to remember that the wars going on overseas are not the only thing are forces do to help us out. Many of those other jobs, the people here who spew thier crap just wouldn't do.

I appreciate that the action over in Afghanistan is not popular, but if you think thats the only way our troops look after your freedoms then you need a lot of educating.

Who do you think looks after the country whilst troops are abroad?

So many people moan about the forces, until the time comes when they need them. I'd like to say i hope that one day the troops turn around and tell those who moan to go shove it, but sadly they will still protect your butts no matter how much you whinge from your armchair.

CX.

reply to post by LiveForever8


not a child. Just a realist. By the way, no one here likes anything on your list but the NFL.

Don't you have a soccer match to attend so you can get smooshed at the fence?



It's also weird how you know so much about our pop culture, yet, no one In the USA cares about euro anything. I guess with unoriginal thoughts comes unoriginal minds and therefore your lack of a viable rebuttal.

It's funny when jealousy rears it's ugly head.

Why don't you visit Abovetopsecret.uk?
I swear we won't bother you.

reply to post by CX


Not sure I get your meaning.
Who does look after the country whilst the troops are abroad?
Peter Mandelson?
Oooo, I hope they get him when they come home!

Originally posted by NEWclearMind
reply to post by LiveForever8

 

not a child. Just a realist. By the way, no one here likes anything on your list but the NFL.

Don't you have a soccer match to attend so you can get smooshed at the fence?



It's also weird how you know so much about our pop culture, yet, no one In the USA cares about euro anything. I guess with unoriginal thoughts comes unoriginal minds and therefore your lack of a viable rebuttal.

It's funny when jealousy rears it's ugly head.

Why don't you visit Abovetopsecret.uk?
I swear we won't bother you.

Being such a brave hero and all, I'm sure you've expressed these views face to face with people? After all, you're a coward if you haven't.

If you went to a "soccer" match in England and said that "America won world war 2 by herself!", "you'd be speaking German if it wasn't for us!" etc, I guarantee you wouldn't leave the stadium in one piece.

reply to post by NEWclearMind


I like America. I like Americans.

I was merely using those as poor examples of stereotypes, like you did about people from the UK. Poor examples.

What you have done here though is quite sad. You turned a good thread about veterans of war and turned it into 'us versus them', American versus UK. I don't quite know why you did this.

Obviously you have an ulterior motive. Troll maybe?

I stated my opinion on the matter earlier. I didn't offend anyone or create division. Merely gave my opinion based on personal experience.

Look back over you posts. Negativity.

Your an angry person. You were in the armed forces you say? Hmmm.

Peace.

reply to post by Lurch



First of all anyone that could fight, wouldn't be talking like you do. Second of all, you are a troll.

Originally posted by Lurch
If you went to a "soccer" match in England and said that "America won world war 2 by herself!", "you'd be speaking German if it wasn't for us!" etc, I guarantee you wouldn't leave the stadium in one piece.

That's LAME by that logic...

Come to New York and go to Yankee stadium and spout the US came late to WWII and didn't contribute much.

See what happens.