Interview with the President: Jail Time for Those without Health Care Insurance?

Edited because I was overcome with anger when posting. I can't stand this bloody president and I just want to go to sleep and not wake up until he's gone.

[edit on 10-11-2009 by gaborn415]

This is cool. If it's just like auto insurance I'm golden. See, NH doesnt mandate auto insurance. You're a dumbass if you dont have coverage as it isnt worth being sued to kingdom come because you slid into some dude last Winter.

So, by virtue of Obama not having a clue what he's talking about (medal of honor anyone?) come on up to NH where you wont be tossed into prison for not having health insurance. Just dont expect anyone to pay for your mistake when you fall and bust your head next Winter.

Originally posted by Rockstrongo37


We are beginning to see the face of fascism rise to the fore front and in its attempt to appear benign, it has cloaked its self in the robes of progressive thought and reason.
............

This is what gets me....why do you call it fascism, when it is SOCIALISM?.....

This is what happens in countries that truly embrace Socialism.. People are forced to do things, just "for the good of all"...

You can even see the responses of leftwinger Americans who claim FORCED LABOR is good, becuase it will be "good for the nation"...

This is not fascism, please call it for what it really is a "Socialist Dictatorship"

[edit on 10-11-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by clay2 baraka

Unfortunately, since you did not source this information, we will simply have to "take your word" for it. .

Debates should be based on fact, not innuendo.

Wow, even when shown what the president himself has to say you can see that some people try to defend him to death...


blogs.abcnews.com...

There is a video of the interview, and even though that jail time part was taken off, the president CLEARLY says that there should be punishment if you decide to have no health insurance... Meaning PEOPLE HAVE NO CHOICE, otherwise they are punished...and he says the punishment has to be high enough so that people are disuaded...

Like to mislead much?...


[edit on 10-11-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

WTF???? I can't get food for my family, but I have to buy health insurance??? This is EFFING ludacrous! I get foodstamps and health care (medicaid) for my kids, but am ineligable myself because I won't go for CS cause I already get it from the father voluntarily so I am ineligable for those things, what the EFF should I do??? Maybe someone needs to assassinate this jerk wad.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Wow, even when shown what the president himself has to say you can see that some people try to defend him to death...

blogs.abcnews.com...

There is a video of the interview, and even though that jail time part was taken off, the president CLEARLY says that there should be punishment if you decide to have no health insurance... Meaning PEOPLE HAVE NO CHOICE, otherwise they are punished...and he says the punishment has to be high enough so that people are disuaded...

Like to mislead much?...

Actually you and I agree on this issue. In fact that is one of the few common arguments between the "left" and "right" on this issue...

This thread was titled (and has been debated) with the premise that "jail time" would be a penalty for non-participation in the plan. I have been attempting to dispel this myth.

"Jail time," though false, has been a very effective buzzword being thrown out there to rally the troops. As we have seen in this thread.

[edit on 11/10/2009 by clay2 baraka]

Actually, this argument of Obama's is totally WRONG - and he should know it is - him supposedly being a constitutional lawyer by trade. He should know that this is unconstitutional and that THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT does NOT mandate automobile insurance - and for good reason... it is UNCONSTIUTIONAL. Each individual state either mandates it or not. I don't think all do. The State governments have much more leeway to do things like this because they are closer to the people.

I kind of hope this does pass because I can tell you what will happen. The very first person who gets jail time for this will appeal it and it will be thrown out. I'm almost mad enough about this to actually drop the very good insurance I have just so I can be the one who sues the FREAKING hell out of them.

I'm beginning to think that they are doing this just so people will buy the insurance thinking that they're going to go to jail and then quietly take that provision out of the bill when it's challenged because there is NO FREAKING WAY this will hold up in court.



[edit on 10/11/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]

reply to post by Rockstrongo37


I guess they'll have to "boot" my leg or reposses this old body here then. It's all right i'm using pure conciosness to turn into amorphous 4th dimensional goo anyway.

What about people who rely on herbal and non- western medicine? Will that be covered? These doctors aren't anything but legal drug dealers and pharmaceutical co. sellouts. Salvia Apiana White sage is a miracle plant and one of the best antibiotics known to man, if you don't have any go to a local garden center and get a few plants. I had a terrible spider bite and the poisen had my left forearm swollen huge and in bad pain. I made a poultice and applied it directly to the bite and covered it changing it twice a day for three days and it sucked out all the poisin and probably saved my life. The only time I would go to a doctor is if I was in a REAL emergency or needed a life saving operation. Medical malpractice/ incompetance is the THIRD leading cause of death in the U.S. ! Just like cable companies have to fund public access channels for the right to broadcast, the massively profitable big pharma should have to fund a public option as the cost of doing business. It probably would never happen though. The economy especially since reaganomics has been nearly pure de-regulated laissez faire friedman economics and is becoming more so each day.

[edit on 10-11-2009 by siahchi]

One of the biggest problem with all of this is the fact that the president and every member of Congress the house and the senate took a bible oath To Uphold the U.S. Constitution which this NH bill clearly rips up and just tramples all over. There is NO accountability when these people skirt the Constitution and the checks and balances in place that is supposed to protect US the people.

This is Exactly why We ARE a Republic and Not a Democracy !!! Clearly government has overstepped its Constitutional bounds and is acting under a FALSE government that is ILLEGAL !

The Founding Fathers makes provision for this. Overthrow the government ! This is the correct way to deal with this problem.

"The Declaration of Independence states that "Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed [that's us, folks], --

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

From top to bottom, this government has become destructive not only to us, but the world.

The Declaration goes on, "Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. --"

Haven't we seen this long train of abuses? Anyone who claims this has not happened has had their eyes shut.

What we NEED to do All of Us and DO IT NOW is call for impeachment of Obama and every congressman, representative and senator who supports this Bill and this socialist way of government. IF you refuse to do this you are Part of the Problem. It cannot be more clear.

Some may feel this is off topic but I feel it directly relates to the topic at hand.



[edit on 10-11-2009 by JohnPhoenix]

Originally posted by clay2 baraka
You realize that the criminal penalties were stripped from the bill by the finance committee, right? Read your original article.

The sections that you refer to are nowhere to be found.

To clarify, you are correct in stating that H.R. 3962 does not contain wording imposing jail time or even penalties. However, what it does is amend the Internal Revenue Code to include a "tax" imposed on persons not obtaining health insurance coverage. Therefore, under existing Internal Revenue Code, you may be jailed for not paying the "tax", which is, indirectly and in effect, jailing a person for not obtaining health insurance. This was not removed, as you suggested, and can be located at your previously given source. Within the bill it is at:

Division A - Title V - which begins on page 296 line 9...Sec.501 deals with individuals.

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


This is true, however, in violation of the 10th Amendment, the federal government does withhold some federal funds, from the States, for not imposing the liability insurance mandate.

reply to post by centurion1211


That is exactly what I was thinking, the true is that the government mandate is unconstitutional and refer to choices of the people in this nation that are granted freedoms under the constitution as free people.

What the president seems to forget is that the mandates in the health care bill if added to the final bill will be challenged by the citizens in court.

The bill is going to turn into crap even before its allowed to get off the floor in congress.

Any citizen in the US can challenge the bills mandate in court.

reply to post by WTFover


According to the Senate finance committee, they have lowered the financial penalties referred in the house bill and eliminated references that would result in imprisonment. This could be read to mean that the IRS provision is out of the bill. We will have to see the specifics when the amended bill is released in full by the Senate.

It is not in their interest to kill the bill and the imprisonment "clause" would have been a deal killer as was noted by another poster.

That being said, there is an argument still to be made for opposition to mandatory health care insurance.

[edit on 11/10/2009 by clay2 baraka]

Originally posted by clay2 baraka
reply to post by WTFover

 

According to the Senate finance committee, they have lowered the financial penalties referred in the house bill and eliminated references that would result in imprisonment.

This is the article to which you referred, correct? (from your link)

Senate Panel Softening Insurance PenaltiesBy ROBERT PEAR and JACKIE CALMES
Published: October 1, 2009

Did you notice the date? The House bill wasn't passed until November 7th.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
This is cool. If it's just like auto insurance I'm golden. See, NH doesnt mandate auto insurance. You're a dumbass if you dont have coverage as it isnt worth being sued to kingdom come because you slid into some dude last Winter.

So, by virtue of Obama not having a clue what he's talking about (medal of honor anyone?) come on up to NH where you wont be tossed into prison for not having health insurance. Just dont expect anyone to pay for your mistake when you fall and bust your head next Winter.

Star to you my friend. That was by far a perfect analogy and
a little humorous as well!

Like I say, everyone wants to leverage the government for their cause. People create this dependency by their choices and this dependency is just going to keep being leverage against everyone. More and more and more ways will be thought up to tax people for rights and freedoms they already have without the government and most people will buy into it because it will sound like a good idea. Anyone could oppose car insurance if they chose to and win in court but the cost and trouble is the big factor. I think there should be a collective defense fund that will help people oppose some of this tyranny. The fund wouldn't, however, be used to pay "lawyers" as they are agents of the system. It would go to fund legal consultants who know how to win in court. Sadly though, in most situations, the case will be thrown out of court (dismissed) without a conclusion in order to suppress any precedence. The bottom line is that it is all bluff but they have the leverage of time and money on their side.

reply to post by WTFover


The Senate has been working in-parallel with the House to pass this legislation due to insistence by the Democratic leadership to speedily pass a working bill.

The Senate bill that came out of committee scrubbed most of the provisions that would result in imprisonment. There is still plenty left to be concerned about, however.

reply to post by siahchi


Thank you for writting all this. This has been my concern all along too. Even if this sound crazy to most folks, as American citizens we have a right to chose or own doctors and cures. I keep a large med kit for emergencies. I worked in search & rescue BITD and still keep trained in how to take care of myself and others. Our gov doesn't believe in DYI. There's no money in it.
I think they should make it a penalty and jail time if you dont vote. Like they do downunder. Thats what will get rid of the stupid bastards. Thats what will scare them.
Checkmate.

"What about people who rely on herbal and non- western medicine? Will that be covered? These doctors aren't anything but legal drug dealers and pharmaceutical co. sellouts. Salvia Apiana White sage is a miracle plant and one of the best antibiotics known to man, if you don't have any go to a local garden center and get a few plants. I had a terrible spider bite and the poisen had my left forearm swollen huge and in bad pain. I made a poultice and applied it directly to the bite and covered it changing it twice a day for three days and it sucked out all the poisin and probably saved my life. The only time I would go to a doctor is if I was in a REAL emergency or needed a life saving operation. Medical malpractice/ incompetance is the THIRD leading cause of death in the U.S. ! Just like cable companies have to fund public access channels for the right to broadcast, the massively profitable big pharma should have to fund a public option as the cost of doing business. It probably would never happen though. The economy especially since reaganomics has been nearly pure de-regulated laissez faire friedman economics and is becoming more so each day."

[edit on 11-11-2009 by out west]

What the hell, you don’t get jail time if you don’t have car insurance!?! You only lose your license and tags. You only go to jail if you drive without insurance or on a suspended license, and even that varies from state to state.

Maybe they should make it a crime for companies to refuse to provide health insurance for their employees. Ah, but our government only ever looks out for the corporations anyway. After all, if our representatives put all the big business owners in jail, who would they have to go golfing with?

Hello?!?!?! Plain and effing simple - Americans are being FORCED to do something - aka against your will - you have no choice. Freedom, oh yes, definitely. COME ON, This is laughably ridiculous. I can not stand sheeple and the constant ignorance of the people who still deny the fascism and police state. Honestly, if they don't want to do five minutes of research to open their eyes and would rather flat out deny it then they deserve what's coming to them. I know it's harsh but F*** does it make me angry.