.... and so the old gods stir

Originally posted by serbsta

They did not come out of nowhere, please do more thorough research before resulting to such drastic claims. Read the works of Samual N. Kramer, a world renowned Assyriologist. He states that there were many tribes in the area who were on the brink of civilization for thousands of years.

Edit: Here's a followup question. What kind of evidence would you look for to substaniate claims of an evolving society and not just one that popped up 'over night'?

Would you look for really small, badly developed buildings?
- No, they would have been rebuilt by an advancing society.

Would you look for half developed languages?
- No, that wouldn't make sense would it.

How do you know that law and ethics just popped up 'over night'?

[edit on 9/11/2009 by serbsta]

yes.. they came out of nowhere. they were not on the brink of anything known. regardless of who wrote what book according to the various materials I have already read they were civilisations that have almost no history. small villages that grew "Almost as if over night" into major civilisations. THis is not to discount what Kramer says. HE is right.. there were VILLAGES all over the middle ease, and all over the world. the ones I mentioned with the exception of the Celts, were small villages that just up and advanced beyond anyone else globally (in terms of evolution, and geology) almost overnight. Secondly. I have done the research.. and continue doing the research. There are no referenced here on this post becasue like I said in the beginning there mate, THIS IS A ROUGH DRAFT TO GET OPINIONS. thats all. this is not a debate, nor is it my staunch belief, its an idea I have had since childhood. After doing the bit of research I have I came to the conclusion that these gods of old MAY BE RELATIVE based off the time line of events. Whether or not an assyrologist or an egyptologist comes and says great work, or Piss off, is irrelevant, I am not going onto a complete history of any respective religion. you are missing the point. the point is simpley Given the situations, and the methods of arrival (Typically from the skies) and given the similarities in names, and alleged personal accounts, there is clearly something that happened here during these times with these people. I did not evey say THIS IS THE ONLY WAY. I Even pointed out, had you bothered to read the entire paper thus far "I AM NOT RULING OUT THE POSSIBILITY THAT SOME TRAVELLER FROM SOUTH AMERICA COULD HAVE RETURNED FROM EGYPT AND SAYD PYRAMIDS ARE COOL> LETS BUILD THEM" Before you go getting all butt hurt, read the entire thing. So far everyone else has and say the same thing. Most common response this far "you MIGHT be on to something" and I even said I am not saying I am doing a better job than the professionals. I simply see a pattern. thats all. If you dont, then so be it. I do, the majority of the readers here do as well.. clearly.
cheers.

Originally posted by serbsta
reply to post by kenochs

 

Yes, but we must be careful when separating mythology and prophecy.

with you there.. I agree.

Originally posted by kenochs
reply to post by serbsta

 

Sorry but I don't see any difference.
Was Christ's return prophecy or the necessary endgame of the elements of his existence that have become part of the Christian mythos?
I suggest the latter. And the same goes for all the others.
KE

Ahhh, but see, it is quite distinct.

Mythology, despite the 'myth' of it, still retains elements of truth that have occurred and have been recorded. If a great flood occurred, it does not matter if people record it as a 'serpent sweeping down and causing chaos', the flood still happened.

But once you associate a prophecy with a myth, you detract from the myth itself, as a prophecy cannot be proven.

Just saying.

reply to post by stanlee


Oh, but i do see this as a debate, you surely didnt' expect to just post this and expect no one to go against you?

I can see what you're saying, believe me. But i don't understand how you came to the conclusion that things such as writing, laws, ethics and 'philosophy' just came into existence?

Originally posted by urwatu8
One small suggestion.

The Truth Seeker Spectrum should probably be anchored on one end by the "True Believer" who will brook no questioning of his correct understanding of the one true god. And be anchored on the other end by the Atheist who knows there is no supernatural and ridicules anyone with any other belief. These two points become the positive and negative infinities and are each absolute in their own right.

Most of us fall on the spectrum between those two. True skeptics are willing to hear any argument and shift their own positions when the evidence sways them.

Oh, and one question – who do you believe to be the Big Bad who sent the gods packing?

Well in this instance, I am not debating modern religions. I am referring more to the ET/UFO phenom. thats all. TSS, to the far left are the staunch "THERE ARE ALIENS HERE ON EARTH AND YOU CANT TELL ME OTHERWISE>>> CRYSTALS TELL ME EVERYTHING", and the far right are "THERE ARE NO ALIENS ITS ALL MAN AND THE WORLD IS CRAZY IF THEY THINK OTHERWISE"

As for who sent the gods packing.. THat depends on the area. I am still reading up on that for Sumeria. the accounts differ from a MAJOR uprising where the people got tired of the divine mood swings, and eventual oppression which makes almost no sense considering the Anunnaki taught them everything. FRom Arithmetic to Art, philosophy, astronomy (the likes of which were not seen until the Aztex/Maya, and BARELY today) and there are accounts where an evil race of gods came to take over, and THEN The people revolted against them, but I think THIS far, it is as simple as the people got into a majour battle with someone else (earthly mind you) and the gods could not prevent this. Not even the mean ones. so they left, and the Sumerians lost to whom ever it was hence the end. Im not positive on that as again, I am still reading up on that. I like to take more than three authors words for it. As for the Scandinavians, that was one person who said to Odin/Tir "hey look.. we're sick of battling these relentlass dicks.. can you go, and let us live in peace, Odins response to the person was the same as it was in the case of the Sumerians.. We will return. My link here is between Current sightings over certain countries, and the possible relation between the gods of old... hence the title.. lol Due note as well.. this is an incomplete work in progress.

Originally posted by hadriana
I only know one thing about this for sure - and that is that the old Gods ARE being called again.

Monotheism has always confused me in relation to the old Gods.

THese people were technically monotheistic mate. The Sumerians for example had a supreme god... Anu. The Celts had one as well called Danu. though Danu never showed herself, the people that came from beyond were the Tuatha de Dannan or the Clan/tribe/people of Danu. The Egyptians had Nu, beneath Nu was Ra (I believe thats accurate reading up on all these areas to be sure) I didnt post this to turn people from jesus, or wicca or whatever, I posted both a hypothesis, and a work in progress. I do h owever appreciate the input.
Stan

Originally posted by kick Flip
reply to post by stanlee

 

I love it when people take this amount of time on a topic. Very interesting, and makes alot of sense. Not saying i believe it of coarse as one must always remain skeptical. S&F for you.

and the skepticism is what I count on. On the whole TSS, I thing I stand left justified from centre. THough I do believe there are aliens out there, and I do believe they had a part in our civilisation I will NOT DARE come here with a match and say ALIENS GAVE US FIRE. This here, is the humble individual on the accepting side of the spectrum presenting a thought. The opposing side keeps me researching, further and further. With people like Phage, Internos, Doomsday Rex, and so on out there.. believe me.. I will NOT present tripe before them. they do more research into the phenom being mundane, and ALWAYS come back with a justifiable answer, and if I were to present un researched Bullocks out here.. they would respond rather harshly. THEY above all others are who I watch out for.. and research in case of, as whether I like to admit it or not often times, they are closer to the truth than I in first presentation.

reply to post by odyseusz


Very nice indeed. THere is one flaw though. lol Im not focusing on the male main gods.. just the main gods. Danu was female. SHe was teh all mother.. so to speak. lol. However.. you seem to know your stuff as well.. If you like.. U2U me, perhaps a second mind in this madness would be helpful. When all is said and done, Im not really going to be focusing on the main gods either. I want to bring them all in (as many as I can) and show the relative similarities that could link them even closer together in our history. and from there my goal is to possibly link them to all the sightings we are having today. I am also waiting for sightings that are presented by people that are not complete crack pots. My goal however though is to be thorough. if this turns into a book.. wonderful. if it turns into a dissertation for Erik vonDeniken.. even cooler. lol.
Stan

reply to post by All Seeing Eye


whoa there mate.. where did I suggest that all of humanity is evil? infact Humans in the role of what I am saying are at this point irrelevant. the humans at THIS juncture of the work, are more akin to passers by. thats about it. I didnt lump humanity anywhere. I did however say WE ALL KNOW SOMETHING IS HAPPENING., or were you refering to this line? "....when the christians were imposing their malevolent culture on the people there"
Sorry to disappoint you but.. not everyone believes in christ. so that FAR from lumps people together, and back in those times, history proves on MANY... MAAAANY accounts how cruel the church was. and again.. thats ONE organisation.... not all of humanity

reply to post by Helmkat


well one thing the old texts we understand to this day is this. the old gods clearly didnt come here with the intent of militarisation. They taught the arts and sciences. you dont educate the peolpe you want to enslave. The rest is again coming when the work is done. YOu post great questions, and that to me is a great tool. Keeps the research going further.

reply to post by FIFIGI


interesting notions and good point. That lo story is exactly what I want to reveal. I dont know if the old gods were hermaphroditic, or what. THat is a possibility. So to is it a possibility that people back then were just bored out of their minds and decided to tell great tales of old, and write them down. and we have been mistaking them for religions.

Originally posted by stanlee
reply to post by Helmkat

 

well one thing the old texts we understand to this day is this. the old gods clearly didnt come here with the intent of militarisation.

Oh but they did... in fact they came with a massive array of weapons and fought large wars that nearly wiped out humanity.

Just ask our friends Krishnu and Arjuna.

Originally posted by stanlee
reply to post by FIFIGI

 

THat is a possibility. So to is it a possibility that people back then were just bored out of their minds and decided to tell great tales of old, and write them down. and we have been mistaking them for religions.

Doesn't have to mean we have mistaken them. Stories that have been written purely out of the imagination could have very well developed into fully functioning religious faiths an cults. Despite all research, i still believe this to be the most likely cause, not necessarily meaning its true of course.

You should get Skyfloating in here to give you his opinion.



[edit on 9/11/2009 by serbsta]

Originally posted by Mr No One
Interesting theory that you lay out. However there is a fly in your ointment. Zeus was NOT the all father for the Greeks. Point of fact, he is the youngest of the Greek Gods (all were siblings) and son of the Titan Cronus. And Jupiter was the son of Saturn. Thus in the postulated return of the "old gods" there are still even older gods before them. How does this affect your theory, if at all?

Also. the Etruscan counter part to Zeus/Jupiter was Tinia and in Hindu, Indra.

[edit on 9-11-2009 by Mr No One]

how does this affect my theory? well it says in an even louder voice that though, I do possess intellect, I am not knowledgeable of all things. I havent really had the opportunity to study in depth the greco-roman pantheon as of yet. and in all honesty, I hadnt intended to play with them at all.. somehow they found their ways in here though. So being the psiritualist that I am I laid that to fate, and decided cool. I may be wrong on those parts but someone will correct me and inspire me to research them even further. It was to my understanding that zeus had a head ache and had his head split and out came athena or something to that effect. (as I said.. I havent really reasearched the greco-roman pantheon at this point) I will be hitting up those areas as well. As for the Hindu. I dont need to say anything about the possibility that they were intervening other worlders, as the two poems from them say it all for themselves. That would be tantamount to pointing to a flame and saying.. "thats hot"

reply to post by Rockpuck


Dagda was part of the Tuatha de Dannan. What exactly does that term mean? The people/Tribe/Clan of Danu. I never said anywhere that Danu was thought to be the creation goddess. I said she was the All mother of the Tuatha de Dannan. that was about it. secondly If you look at the various other belief systems out there, you will see that they had a creating father or mother. that does NOT mean that creating parent created the entire universe/earth. that means that all parent created those underling gods. Whether or not that main god chose to intervene (as is the case with Danu) is a completely different saga, and up to them. I did however suggest that because Danu was female, it MAY be that she was not allowed, as a superior being to come to battle the FirBolg.
Though Dagda did preside over agriculture and earthen things of that nature, and could very well be known as the earth ruler that does not mean dagda created the earth. the Celtic mythose being one of the last ones around leaves a recent history. ITs hard to tell a man standing in his own garden that YOU planted his roses. THe FirBolg were already ruling Ireland as I pointed out rather gratuitously, when the TdD came into the picture. Clearly there is no creation god amongst the TdD. THere is no.. to my knowledge, creation history in the saga of the TdD. there may very well be a creation legacy in ancient Celtic history, which may go back even further than I am going. I dont rule that out, but I never said Danu told her people to tell the Celts that they created the heavens and the earth. I said what I have read on numerous accounts. Danu was the mother of the TUATHA DE DANAN... NOT the Celts.

Originally posted by bettermakings
I'm curious as to what you think of modern polytheistic religions like Vodou in West Africa & Latin America, where "gods" possess the bodies of people. Many of the gods are similar to the old pagan gods that you've mentioned.

Being From Africa originally, I can tell you this much. THe slaves when they were brought to Haiti, disguised their spirits with saints... hence Santaria. Voudoo as well did some disguising. These people do not believe these spirits are gods. There is one thing about the ancient gods of Africa... and its really funny. The gods look at hhumans with headshaking shame. sort of like when you take a child to the mall and he/she screams out "HEY LOOK AT THAT FAT LADY!" as loud as they can.. you are embarrassed, and shaking your head. The creator of humanity in Africa lost his creation status because he was drunk. his brother stole the materials (i think it was mud, a chicken, and string or something to that effect) and created the earth as best he could etc. The people believed that the gods were of no help or consequence to them because they never spoke to them, ( AND ON THIS NOTE>> I MADE A MISTAKE ABOUT AFRICA IN HERE AS WELL>> IT IS NOT AN EXCEPTION TO THESE RULES AND EXPLANATIONS AS I WILL EXPLAIN IN THE FINAL POST) so they relied on ancestral and natural spirits to talk to the gods for them, or act in the stead of the gods.

In the two religions you mentioned, the most commonly known spirits to the peoples of Africa (the regions this applies to not northern Africa) THese spirits came with the taken slaves with new names, and unchanged roles.

Originally posted by woodwytch
reply to post by stanlee

 

Quick word of warning ... it can be addictive ... I've been working on some of my principles for about 10yrs and they just keep evolving.

Well met. Woody.

(S&F FOR YOU)

Well thank you miss. I've been kicking around the thought and idea of this connection since I was about 13 or so. Now I am 34. lol I just got the time to start looking more heavily into all of this. and yes.. it is addicting. I love this ATS thing because there are brilliant points that I did not consider to look at, and there are random facts that I wasnt aware of that fellow thinkers and those that just know point out for me. This thread was posted for exactly two resons. the afore mentioned AND to see if I should even bother going on with this..... er.. paper? thesis? dissertation? book? random act of bordom? anywho.. thank you again. U2U me if you like.

reply to post by serbsta


yeah... read more than one book. HA! seriously though. there are several books that talk about the fascinating way the Sumerians seem to have had an un matched (even to this day) code of ethics and a standing organised social structure when previously they were just some small village. Check out the Epic of Creation. THey had an understanding of our solar system that we still dont today. there were two planets for example they said were twins.. they always talked about them as twin worlds, the physical layouts, everything. Nasa with Voyager two just found this to be true. I think the worlds were Uranus and Neptune

[edit on 9-11-2009 by stanlee]

Oh but they did... in fact they came with a massive array of weapons and fought large wars that nearly wiped out humanity.

Just ask our friends Krishnu and Arjuna.

LMFAO.. yes.. and like the Hindu texts, The Anunnaki in Sumeria were the same way. they start off, remove some oppressor, and then teach. then they mingle with the ladies (or gentlemen depending on taste, and sex) and a second generation is spoken of, then comes the mood swings, and all that and so on. tThe old gods did tend to disagree with one another and sometimes violently. Some of the old gods were teachers, and care givers others were just straight as**oles

Doesn't have to mean we have mistaken them. Stories that have been written purely out of the imagination could have very well developed into fully functioning religious faiths an cults. Despite all research, i still believe this to be the most likely cause, not necessarily meaning its true of course.

You should get Skyfloating in here to give you his opinion.

Well, we can get whomever we like in here. I just want it to be known that as this is history, which is also left to the possibility of unsavory translation, I dont want to rule out the mundane, and throw out solely the fanatical fantasy. thats all I was saying with that last statement

[edit on 9/11/2009 by serbsta]

reply to post by stanlee


Yes, I'm very familiar with Sumerian texts. If you haven't already visited the below link, you should, you will find it beyond fascinating.


Electronic Text Corpus of Sumerian Literature

Enjoy.

reply to post by serbsta


actually Im not... but I will be here shortly.