.... and so the old gods stir

Ok lets start. This would be mega post about only sexy and aggressive goddess with plenty of images so it's worthy to read and look.

Originally posted by stanlee
….and so stir the old gods.

This is merely an old thought I have had since puberty, and have finally afforded the opportunity to look further into it. That’s all. Do not take it as my solid opinion or belief. As my research brings me further in, So too will my opinions and ideas evolve with my findings.

First let me coin the term Truth Seeker Spectrum. (Tss) The spectrum has two sides. Accepting, (what we call the believer) and Opposing (what we call sceptical) toward the centre of the spectrum lie those that look at all possibilities and take the time to look at what they see without ruling out either mundane or ET. Far left are the fanatical believers, and far right are the fanatical sceptics....

...
Sumerian, Anu
Celtic Danu
Egyptian Nu
Greek Zeus
Roman Jupiter
Scandinavian Odin
Aztec Cuculkahn
Maya Quetzlcoatl
...

Wonderful research. I think I could add some my interesting research in that matter. You focus on main mail gods in all culture. Which are pretty the same in every culture. I focused on appearance of women form goddess. They are even more similar in all cultures. Usually we have main female god and sometimes her smaller version complementary to her in very specific way. She is so similar in different cultures so it’s almost obvious that this women god is the same god in every culture migrating between different civilizations almost unchanged. Let’s start.
1. Sumerian civilization. Oldest known for me appearance of that goddess.
Babylonian Ishtar called also Inanna if we refer to whole Mesopotamian culture.
Beautiful goddess of war love and sex. Second most important god in whole religion system after Anu mentioned by stanlee. Ishtar is mentioned many times that she takes past in battles and is invincible. She is associated with planet Venus. In mythology she is mentioned of her unhappy romance.

Look close on her attributes. She holds symbolic representation of lots flower in both hand. Lions she is standing on is a part of her story. W return back to this later. On the sides we have to owls in all ancient cultures the symbol of wisdom so it says to us that she is also clever goddess despite her war and sex connotation which shakes our part of imagination the most.
2. Ancient Hinduism. – Durga
Guess what goddess she was. Yes. War and love. Representation of beauty and famine power. She also is invincible warrior. She can’t be stopped in a battle.

Definitely she looks like a war goddess. Look close that she set on e lion. Looks familiar. When Durga is starting her battle trance other more familiar Goddess jumps from her forehead named Kali. I don’t need to explain. Kali takes souls to the other side.

3. Phoenicians culture. (give origin to Ancient Greek culture) – Astarte called also Ashtart or Asthoret (difficult to define one spelling because Phoenician culture was speeding in a large area)
Yee. Goddess of war and sex. Not surprising.

As you can see its very similar to Ishtar. Wings and pose. In fact she is Ishtar but 1500years later. We clearly see that it is still one culture only evolving. The kingdoms falls but culture is pretty the same.
4. Egypt. Egypt is pretty old culture with own religion systems but they would take Ishtar with open hands. Everybody likes goddess of war and sex. They have many former goddess but they add Ishtar to their pantheon as Anat.

Looks definitely as fighter goddess. But then they come to the conclusion that this pretty goddess is already exist in their culture as one of main goddess Isis the lady of land and sky. In older language she was named Ishet what brings to my mind similarity to Ishtar in spelling. Because Ishtar come to Egypt twice she existed as two different goddess.

As you could see. Isis reminds Ishtar even more than evolved version of the same goddess Anat.

to be continued...

[edit on 9-11-2009 by odyseusz]

[edit on 9-11-2009 by odyseusz]

5. Ancient Greek civilization – Splitting Ishtar into two goddess begins because of Egyptian influence and some other cultures. Greeks derived ideas from many culture and Ishtar as strong goddess present in every culture in surrounding was coming to them from different sides. They were creating their system of beliefs just adding every God they could find. So they create two important goddess Athena and Aphrodite
Athena comes probably directly from Mesopotamia as war goddess with armory and all this weaponry stuff. What also common to al Ishtarlike goddess she doesn’t have any partner god to create couple. She poses also other attribute from Ishtar, an Owl. Symbol of wisdom.

Let’s look what we could see here. It’s a typical representation of Athena with spear, shield and this little pretty angel. Who is that god with wings. It’s Nike the goddess of victory. Another Ishtarlike goddess of war which Greeks didn’t know how to tie with all that thing but feels that this two goddess were related.

Its old image of Nike. Later ass the time flow it changes to more human shape because of strongly evolving Greek art. But as we could see this early figure of Nike is much like Ishtar. Look at her bird feet.

Other picture of Athena as warrior sitting on lions back. Does this reminds you something? Yes Durga. What is interesting that Athena’s companion Nike reminds Kali which appears from Durga in culminate point of battle as ultimate solution and destruction.
The other part of divided Ishtar is Aphrodite. Closest goddess to her is probably Phoenician version Asthoret associated with planet Venus its important because later Venus in Rome is their version of Aphrodite. We know Aphrodite image mainly from modern culture especially from European renascence but we have to go back to the origin of that goddess. The most common image of Aphrodite as goddess of love is obvious. Hellenistic art say on much higher level than any other art and was focused on human body at this time so image of Aphrodite was inspiration to show just nature of beauty women.

Typical picture doesn’t says much about where does it come from. But… It is also interesting that in times when Egypt stayed under influence of Greeks Isis and Aphrodite was considered as one Goddess and was pictured in style pretty the same as Ishtar. It brings back Aphrodite image closer to her origin.

We know Aphrodite image mainly from modern culture especially from European renascence but we have to go back to the origin of that goddess. Mainstream Greek culture form Greeks center of civilization often rewrite the image of Aphrodite but in the periphery of their civilization we often find not so advanced art often showing the Phoenician older influence.

This come from Iberia today’s Spain. As we could see there is sitting Aphrodite which is in her early form with some relicts of former culture like wing shaped support of her throne. It is considered that on this stage Aprodite still could be worshiped as Asthoret to.
6. Roman empire – “Venus” it’s not much about that because Venus is directly cloned Aphrodite and refer to that first goddess. I should only say that it was easy to adopt Greek goddess by roman because they were present in their culture before they met Greeks just because that whole pantheon of gods was present just everywhere in region.


[edit on 9-11-2009 by odyseusz]

7. Slavic and Vikings culture. It’s not well known part of history and it doesn’t bring any new light on Ishtar case but it proves that influence of that goddess is almost global.
Despite Slavic tribes appears in history quite late with own band of Slavic gods we could figure many interesting accidents with gods similar to this ancient on the Baltic coast. It doesn’t come there by land way because that ancient gods hadn’t been known in Slavic interior lands. For example the goddess Jastra of course goddess of war and love. What is surprising that despite Jastra appear in Slavic Baltic mythology in early medieval age it appear to have more common with Ishtar or Phoenician Ashtart than many later ancient equivalents of that goddess. The only similarity to Aphrodite is that she is considered as the caretaker of sailors. It doesn’t keep together? Ok. We have to dig deeper. Why sailors. Imagine how could she come to Baltic if she doesn’t come by land. She have to travel by sea. With who? Maybe with ancient best sailors. Still wonder who? Phoenicians. We have information that they were marvelous sailors. Probably they created best maps of ancient world. They come to India and round the Africa continent co they could travel to Baltic which was much shorter trip. What prove we have? Their ships.

It’s replica of Phoenician boat. It’s quite similar to later Baltic famous boat’s.

Viking boasts. As you see its almost the same although there is 2000 years later. But there is more prove of Ancient influence in Baltic culture. Phoenicians have to come here only in one reason. They are looking for amber. Precious stone. In Polish language old but still used word for Amber is Jantar. It survive almost without any changes 3500 thousand year almost unchanged and is Phoenician word of IamItar. Ok. I explain some my research but go back to goddess of war and sex. The rest is boring.
Is there any Ishtar here? Yes of ours. Freya. Goddess of war and love. To avoid pop culture influence let’s look for something old.

Ok. Vikings doesn’t know how lions looks like but they had many boars Check if Freya have other supporting goddess which we could recognize. Maybe some much Ishtarlike babes. Ugh… It’s harder and harder to look for this goddess if we are coming to present time because Google comes up with more and more pop culture extremely sexy chicks especially from anime cartoon and this could shake even hardest man. (we have to check Japan culture later)
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/Valkyrie_(1834-1835)_by_H._W._Bissen.jpg/180px-Valkyrie_(1834-1835)_by_H._W._Bissen.jpg[ /img]
Ok. I know. It’s not original picture of Valkyrie but modern statue based on Vikings written texts. Vikings have completely no drawing talent so every valkirie drawled by tem looks like preschool efforts of little children. What is important, she is the goddess of victory. She decides who will die and who survive the battle pretty the same like Nike
Other goddess of Viking mythology is Hel. She is pretty similar to Kali which come completely from other part of the world… or not? I can’t find the proper image but I saw her with the skirt made of cut hand of enemies as Kali is usually pictured.
8. Modern day goddess of sex and war. She is the only hope that we discover more ancient mystery of our civilization. Lara Croft

Enough. I’m tired. Babes from internet was finely fight me down. I hope someone have a good reading. I spend few hours to made that compilation and I even didn't scratch goddess of ancient China, Africa and south America but a conclusion is that Indo-European civilization have definitely common ancestors which had to create some forgotten civilization because I can't believe that Ishtar is the origin of everything. There had to be some goddess before her common to all which I mentioned in that text.


[edit on 9-11-2009 by odyseusz]

[edit on 9-11-2009 by odyseusz]

[edit on 9-11-2009 by odyseusz]

reply to post by stanlee
Well, far left I am not, but not far from it.

I do believe in the Gods of old, but see that just as you have done, has been done in the past. I see the gods of old as being two separate entities with two different genesis, and two different origins, merged into one entity, or one term "Gods of Old".

Just as with any family you have generations, and I believe the gods of old are no different in this respect. I started a thread to explore this avenue, possibilities. www.abovetopsecret.com...

I totally agree that our ancient origins, genesis, has been intentionally hidden from us regardless of which group of gods your talking about. The reason for this is unclear and questionable.

In as far as humanity as a whole being evil at its core, I do not agree! Through my research I have found that each of these "Creator Gods" have placed here on earth a representative species, at least two that I know of. One, based in the mammal, and the other can only be guessed at. My guess would be "Based in the reptile" as is seen by their "Political greed".

Please do not lump all of humanity into one category, it does us all a injustice.

In as far as these "Creator Gods" coming back, well, they will answer to a higher authority for what they have done, as I suspect some of them have already done!!!

reply to post by stanlee



A very interesting thought experiment OP.


I have some questions/thoughts

-Why -really-did the ancients leave? because it certainly was not the military might of our primitive cultures. Did someone else of equal or greater power show up and force the issue? Were these "elders" actually rule breakers and thieves out for something else? Or did they leave because they had nothing left to teach us at that time and are waiting for our civilzation to reach a new level before they come back with a new "more advanced" set of teachings?

Maybe they were same group of scientist which come here on the way od some kind of experiment. If anyone of us have been sent to the past to the Age of Conan only with e few coins in pocket and your mobile could you build a space ship or rather would you be forced to assimilate with barbarian? How much time would you would spend to learn their language and how could you explain them out even easiest inventions if they haven't got proper words in their not developed language.

As I pointed except the main god of ancient casting fire and lightning using his modern weapon which was considered as his god power. We have very active goddess. Some kind of women who came and told the people how everything have to looks like. Sumerian mythology mention that she participate in ruling the people as a queen so she has enough human attributes to consider she had some kind of archetype in real human in the deep past.

Now when Iraq is not under regime we have possibility to continue archaeological works on old Sumerian lands. It was never examined using modern technique. Who knows what would be discovered in the future. The new possibilities are just opening. It's now most promising archaeological point of world map.

[edit on 9-11-2009 by odyseusz]

reply to post by Helmkat


at the time, there was a war raging against rival gods, species, entities whatever you want to call them and the earth probably would have been trashed if they didnt leave.

reply to post by guidanceofthe third kind


An interesting notion. Perhaps Earth actually resides in someone elses domain and these "Elders" that showed up in our past were more like "insurgents" or "advisors" of the opposing factions trying to stir up trouble. The presence of these Elders has not lead to any kind of enlightened Earth society! and maybe thats what they wanted. In any case I don't see a "war in the heavens" ending well for our identity as a species.

History is written by the victor, perhaps our fate will be but a footnote.

The mythology. Also ancient technologies to build all the great monuments all over the world - pyramids in China Egypt, Americas, megaliths..., etymology and languages, and archeological findings.

I suspect we need to look into genealogy here as well.
- the oldest common ancestor for men lived around 80 000 years
- the oldest common ancestor for women lived 150-250 thousand years back

That means there was one gender (hermaphrodite) for thousands of years. Who split off the man with?

Also, Neanderthal is interesting subject as well. Could they have developed technology that allowed them whether to travel to space or go underground before Ice Age kicked in? I suspect they might have pretended to be aliens to people after the Ice Age.

I don't know. The more back in Hi Story I go the more I see there is a Low Story that is untold to us.

Interesting theory that you lay out. However there is a fly in your ointment. Zeus was NOT the all father for the Greeks. Point of fact, he is the youngest of the Greek Gods (all were siblings) and son of the Titan Cronus. And Jupiter was the son of Saturn. Thus in the postulated return of the "old gods" there are still even older gods before them. How does this affect your theory, if at all?

Also. the Etruscan counter part to Zeus/Jupiter was Tinia and in Hindu, Indra.

[edit on 9-11-2009 by Mr No One]

Perhaps we are just in a deserted region of the milky way ? in a lets say remote forgotten or 'vast countryside' with some scattered small towns where local sheriffs rule for a long time ?

Originally posted by Geladinhu
Very cool thread! I like how you put some thought on this, starting from the creation of the TSS.

Could you give a brief summary of all the content you are putting in your paper? I'm curious to know what else you have in mind relating to this topic.

Anyhow, I have my own take on all of this. I agree that there is definetly a correlation going on that hints us that there is more then we currently understand. Or in other words, I do think its very plausible that these Gods are real entities and of extra-terrestrial origins.

But here is where my ideas are a little different and one even may say that they are more twisted then any other idea. I simply cannot believe that such advanced species would be as agressive as what we make them to be. I am unable to see how a spacial travelling species would be having wars as a commonality. In my perspective they would be long destroyed before achieving the technology they have with this agressive behavior.

So how did they actually behave and why do people see them as being so dangerous and ferocious? I seriously believe that they are all just "playing around" with humanity. Jokers, screwing with us just for fun. Earth is a playground for them. But they don't feel guilty about it because they actually helped us a lot in our evolution. Okay okay, maybe this sillyness of them created A LOT of suffering for us humans. But then we have to ask, isn't this suffering actually the catalyst for evolution? The more suffering the faster we are prone to evolve. That is if we are really the fittest and are meant to perpetuate.

In my perspective only a fool would think that such great entities would lose themselves in anger, shame and pride. And that is exactly what we humans are, fools.

I've never heard Danu referred to as a Monotheistic God.. considering she was believed to be the Mother of various Gods, so at the least shes Dualistic or Polytheistic. I don't believe ancient tales point to her as the creator of the Earth either, or of all things. In fact, I don't think the Celtic people (Ireland, since you are speaking specifically of an Irish Goddess by name) had a world wide creation belief.. Their tales usually involved migration and wars of Ireland, but Ireland herself always existed.

Dagda was probably the single most important of the Irish Gods, or Eiru (which is where Ireland gets her real name, Erin as it's pronounced) who was a daughter of Dagda.

Just pointing your flaws with one mythology, I don't know about the rest.

I'm curious as to what you think of modern polytheistic religions like Vodou in West Africa & Latin America, where "gods" possess the bodies of people. Many of the gods are similar to the old pagan gods that you've mentioned.

A cease and desist letter?

Originally posted by Helmkat
reply to post by stanlee

 

A very interesting thought experiment OP.

I have some questions/thoughts

-Why -really-did the ancients leave? because it certainly was not the military might of our primitive cultures. Did someone else of equal or greater power show up and force the issue? Were these "elders" actually rule breakers and thieves out for something else? Or did they leave because they had nothing left to teach us at that time and are waiting for our civilzation to reach a new level before they come back with a new "more advanced" set of teachings?

reply to post by stanlee


lol, Hey there stanlee ... pleased to meet a fellow 'outside of the box thinker'. I'm currently writing my second book 'The Atlantean Analysis' about just such topics (amongst others).

Always encouraging to see someone else who thinks differently to the many.

Quick word of warning ... it can be addictive ... I've been working on some of my principles for about 10yrs and they just keep evolving.

Well met. Woody. (S&F FOR YOU)

reply to post by VonDutch



Your Sheriff notion might not be far off. Its possible the cattle rustlers got wind of the Sheriff visiting this area of the Galaxy and left in a hurry with a "We will be back" message. If Humans went to another world it would not be with notions of "teaching the natives how to read and write", it would be to gain something and the only reason we would leave would be because we had gotten what we wanted or something required us to leave. If life in our cosmos is driven by the same processses as life on Earth you can bet when they come back it will because we have something they want. If that is the case then the resourse they may be coming to poach is Humanity itself.

reply to post by kenochs


Normally I would agree with that, but as I get further and further into the research, (namely that of the sumerians) the Anunaki, for example (those who from heaven, to earth came.... literal translation) werent so much a mythos as mush as they were a literal historical figure. Not only that but reading the "Epic of Creation" circa 3500 BCE (give or take) these particular 'people'.... lets start a bit further back. according to the same tablets "Epic of Creation" The Anunaki, came here because they detected gold in the ocean waters. (a fact that could not possibly have been known to such a primitive people as our oceans are literally riddled with precious metals) when the annunaki got here, they realised it would be too hard to harvest this gold from the waters. So they went to africa allegedly some 30.000 yrs ago. The tablets go on to say the Anunnaki were hear as earlyt as some 485,000 yrs ago as well) Ironically we discover in the very region they were said to have gone to mine gold (ABZU) is actually the country called South Africa where we just found the walls and old tribal goat pens no one understood who made them and we find they are between (estimated of course) 160,000 and 200,000 yrs old, as well as mines all over Southern Africa that date do be about the same age.

So its not really a case of "were bored lets create gods" We are talking about a civilisation that sprung up almost over night with cuniform writing (the most complicated, and oldest form of writing to this date) that had taxation and logistical records, mathematics, literature, and philosophy. Not just a few impressive buildings. THAT is what drives this whole endeavour mate. Although.. I do appreciate the input... keeps me on me feet. lad.

reply to post by superluminal11


LMFAO! bits Thats bloody funny there mate the way you did that with the names. I think thats funny because the Epic of creation (one of the more popular Sumerian texts) is not forgotten today in modern religions.. the book of genisis is a truncated literal translation OF the Epic of Creation. The Book of Genisis came out when the Hebrews were being held captive by the Babylonians. Which spawned later Christianity, and Islam. (I use the word spawned not as an attack on either religion mind you the two beliefs are well known to be off shoots of Judaism (The old testiment esp)) which is why I did not look at the three latter religions. and this entire paper.. (the post here is merely a very crude rough draft mind you.. the good stuff is to come with referendum as well so you too can do the research)

Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by cosmicpixie

 

I dont altogether agree with you, though partly. I keep hearing and reading bad things said about humans, and then notice the world they live in, the illegal pyramid power structure that keeps them not only deprived and abused, but traumatizes them in their mind, body and soul and cuts them off from their answers, their right hemispheres.

That right there Unity is exactly where I am taking this... its my closing statement infact.
The old gods have the same entrance story "THEY COME FROM THE HEAVENS/Skies/Stars, DEFEAT THE POWERS THAT BE "because in every story the people are seriously oppressed by fear, tyranny and laws that keep them subdued" it does go on with examples but damn.,..... I guess I was predictable

Originally posted by stanlee
reply to post by kenochs

 

We are talking about a civilisation that sprung up almost over night with cuniform writing (the most complicated, and oldest form of writing to this date) that had taxation and logistical records, mathematics, literature, and philosophy.

Are you going to reply to my posts 2 pages ago or are you simple going to keep repeating these utterly ignorant statements?

STICKY NOTE TO OP, DONT FORGET

Just so you don't forget.

[edit on 9/11/2009 by serbsta]