I beg of you read this. Stop the drama...

Agreed. How shall we start?

reply to post by johnny2127


I understand why you think peaceful resistance is futile in America. But so far all I have heard from you is condemnations of methods of achieving change. So what are your ideas? It's easy to put down the ideas of others let's here some from you.

And to the OP, as I stated before, it is pointless for everyone to go and quit their jobs and refuse to pay taxes until we find some real solidarity. If we find solidarity, we will be a monolithic force. If not, we are a bunch of argumentative people without jobs. I don't know about you, but until the majority can agree on the solution to at least one issue, I am going to keep my job. This really isn't the economy to risk that sort of thing.

[edit on 8-11-2009 by The Transhumanist]

reply to post by Draves


We need to creat a website that is on an independant server or ISP, and get it out there to the people so that they know about it and then, only then, we can organise how we are going to do this... A lot of people will walk away because of the type of site this is, simply due to its name and type of site. We need it to be something like "takingbacktheworld.com" or "restorepowertothepeople.com" or "nomoreTPTB.com" or something like that, something with bite and credulity, something people will actually log-on, pledge their participancy, and plan to make their stand with the rest of us on, then do it, all together.

[edit on 8-11-2009 by NibiruWarrior]

[edit on 8-11-2009 by NibiruWarrior]

research Ghandi, he was assassinated for being a peace-maker.

reply to post by ohsnaptruth


Proof that his methods were effective. If we find strength in numbers we don't need to fear assassination of individuals in the movement.

Draves old buddy, your goals are lofty and noble but you don't seem to have a grasp of human nature nor the political realities of the present.

To begin with a pure democracy is five wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Majority rule. A Republic protects the individual from the mob and is the best mix of democratic priciples that protects the rights of the individual while allowing the collective participation in self government. Check out G. Edward Griffin for a very thorough discourse on collectivism versus individualism.

Now, as to why people can't seem to work together to change things. Get five people together and suggest going out to dinner. Chances are that you won't get any agreement on where to eat without someone becoming offended or totally pissed off before consensus is reached if it ever is.

What you see playing out in America is this, everybody is clawing tooth and nail to protect the small sliver of the pie they perceive they possess. If that means that as a result you have none or lose what you have so be it so long as mine is protected. No one wants to be the first guy into the minefield so everyone sits paralyzed like a deer in the headlights watching society decay.

But, poverty and deprivation are great equalizers. The day when the vast majority of us have nothing is the day you will see collective effort to change things. My father said for years that the only man you ever have to fear is the guy with nothing left to lose. Uncle Sam is very aware of this and keeps tossing morsels to this group and that to maintain order but in our circumstances this can't last long because the till is nearly empty.

The middle class is nearly gone and sets up social circumstances similar to pre-revolution France. The reason the middle class is so important is because it acts as a buffer zone between the very wealthy and the very poor. When all you have are the wealthy and the poor the oligarchy, who are clueless to the plight of the poor, press down even harder on the people.

The US is quickly moving to exterminate the remaining middle class with taxation. The new health care bill and inflation is going to be the coup de grace in my view but we'll have to see how this plays out. Be that as it may, the US government is moving to put the military in place (NorthCom) so that when the revolt finally occurs it can be quashed quickly with brute force which is the playing card oligarchs play when the expression of discontent moves from the vocal to the physical.

I wish that things could be changed the way you propose but your methods don't take into account human nature and the political realities of the day. Stay tuned, the crescendo is not far off and I'm afraid that it's going to be ugly. The founding fathers warned us of the consequences if we allowed what we see going only to happen. It appears that this late in the day our options as to how to take back control of our country is very limited. Damned sad but our chickens are coming home to roost.

I think the whole point though, CmdrZero, is to remove the political realities of the present, isn't it?

It is the political realities of the present that allow the TPTB to play their game, and have their funding in place.

We should peacefully wipe the floor with them by not going to work, not paying taxes, marching (peacefully) on the political capitals, whatever it takes.


[edit on 8-11-2009 by NibiruWarrior]

I don't know why you Americans expect something new, different and good from a new president. The reality of it is that any president would not get to be president if he was going to change things and give the power back to the people. The only ones that ever tried, were shot, and no-one did anything about it then. Hell, TPTB's media and film companies even commission movies about what really happened at the time, showing that the Elite did it, and millions upon millions of people have seen the films, and still no-one does anything. The problem with the government is that the people let them get away with it. The OP simply states that we need to do something about it. Everyone should agree and we should come together and work out a plan, not get caught-up in it and bicker over histories.

Let's REALLY do something about it!

reply to post by Draves


great post thanks

what your've said though is just common sense, something the "human race" has forgotton the meaning of.

Originally posted by Trueman
reply to post by Draves

 

At the end of your comment, you say we can change it voting, well with all respect I'm not sure 100%. We might be supporting something already decided by powerfull people, who make us believe we are taking part in aclean process. How come, they work together now after compete during elections? How come usually the winner do the opposite of what was promise in campaing?

See, it's simple: They can control whatever they want outside, but your soul will always be free.

Of course, I agree we need to use a pacific way, but the answer would be right there. where nobody want to go. Freedom resides in your heart, from inside to outside, release the power given by God. I beleive we can channel enough energy to defeat who wants to control us. Personally, my existence had been always in control of God, I just needed to know.

My family went thru WWII in Europe, those days nobody thought Hitler c ould be defeated. My family prevails thru me, we won.

sorry for any spelling error.

Getting to a point where there is a popular open vote will take a lot of change. Representatives are outdated in this world. We have the tech where it doesn't matter anymore.

Think of how many bills and laws are passed currently. Multiple daily. We don't have time for that much legislation. We don't need time for it however. Once we get a working system for the world we will no longer need so many laws. We may have a bill maybe twice a year. We just need to get the system the way it should be. It will be a rough start but it will get there.

There is no other option than open government and popular vote. The world is too transparent nowadays. We are headed towards great things. We just need to go through the painful transition. It is our burden. It is what we have to do. We have the tech. We have the possibility. We will make use of it to the fullest. We always have. That means this government will die.

Do you really believe that this world will stay the way it is forever? Never. It will change drastically. It will change they way we want it to and it will change for the better. Expect it. Things aren't as dark as they seem. Take life by the balls and do it. I couldn't help the joke....

Originally posted by The Transhumanist
reply to post by ohsnaptruth

 

Proof that his methods were effective. If we find strength in numbers we don't need to fear assassination of individuals in the movement.

Wrong.

Gandhi was killed because he was disliked by a lot of people in India at the time. He neglected certain minorities within his policies and these minorities eventually sought revenge.

Gandhi was no god. He was FAR from perfect, and achieved independence with the help of MANY others who receive no recognition.

Its pointless even mentioning his name in this context.

His methods will NOT achieve anything in America.

Satyagraha is outdated im afraid.

Peace.

Originally posted by enlighten2012
reply to post by Draves

 

great post thanks

what your've said though is just common sense, something the "human race" has forgotton the meaning of.

Thank you. Unfortunately and sadly no one sees it as common sense. We see it as a responsibility and a burden. What I suggest is not a simple thing. It is do-able however.

I pored my deepest desires in this thread and I am now committed to it. I am an open book. Ask, I will tell (assuming I see your post). This is getting crazy.

[edit on 11/8/2009 by Draves]

Peaceful protests don't work when no other country feels sorry for the U.S. and can't recognizes the people's pleas. You know why they don't feel sorry for us?

BECAUSE WE'RE IN A DEMOCRACY. THE GOVERNMENT IS THE PEOPLE. YOU CAN'T REBEL AGAINST YOURSELF. "WE" INVADED IRAQ. "WE" GOT THE BUSH FAMILY INTO OFFICE 3 TIMES.

As long as the above is the case, the government can continuously use force.

Draves I wouldn't get so caught-up in the negative comments and opinions some have vested here, you are doing a great job and I am with you.

And someone said other countries do not feel sorry for the united states, you are wrong, I do and a lot of people I know here in the UK do. People feel sorry for people who genuinely require it and the people of the united states genuinely require it. IMO they have had their country stolen from underneath their noses and that requires sympathy.


[edit on 8-11-2009 by NibiruWarrior]

Originally posted by die_another_day
Peaceful protests don't work when no other country feels sorry for the U.S. and can't recognizes the people's pleas. You know why they don't feel sorry for us?

BECAUSE WE'RE IN A DEMOCRACY. THE GOVERNMENT IS THE PEOPLE. YOU CAN'T REBEL AGAINST YOURSELF. "WE" INVADED IRAQ. "WE" GOT THE BUSH FAMILY INTO OFFICE 3 TIMES.

As long as the above is the case, the government can continuously use force.

We are a republic that turned democratic, socialist and is moving toward communism. We were never made to be anyhting other than a republic. If you think we are truly a democracy you need to read more. We are a republic at heart.

Regardless of all that. We let bush happen. We let war happen unconstitutionally to build an oil pipeline. We through out the same leader we let come to power (Hussein). Do you think the people wished for that? I think not. We had no idea. That is why there are sights like this. Things are crazy and we can only find out a sliver of truth on a site like this.

The government can and will use extreme force until we stand up and stop it. Grow up. Take responsibility. We see these crimes as terrible, but at the same time we wont take responsibility. We are responsible! We didn't kick those jack-arses out of office. It is our fault. Remember that before you die or your grandchildren die for no real reason. Grow up. We need to take responsibility for our community/country. We are a group of people. WE elected our "leaders." It takes more than putting them in power. We need to take responsibility for their actions or stop them. We need to stop the way the world is ran. We need open government and popular vote for everything!

I like this topic so much...

Here, have a Star, and a Flag!

Originally posted by NibiruWarrior

Draves I wouldn't get so caught-up in the negative comments and opinions some have vested here, you are doing a great job and I am with you.

And someone said other countries do not feel sorry for the united states, you are wrong, I do and a lot of people I know here in the UK do. People feel sorry for people who genuinely require it and the people of the united states genuinely require it. IMO they have had their country stolen from underneath their noses and that requires sympathy.


[edit on 8-11-2009 by NibiruWarrior]

Thank you. The USA is seen is such a negative light but truly the people are no longer in control. We are however responsible. Until we step up there will be the same crap on a different day.

It is not so easy however. Other countries can hate out political system to the bitter end. I support it. Until the people step up then you cannot hate them. True change is hard. We will get there. Wait for us. We are the catalyst for this world. We will either destroy it or make it great. I just wish we make the right choices....

We'll get there. The whole world will. I know i will. If it doesn't we will go extinct. Sorry for the duality, but there aren't many options here. We need to move forward or die.

Once the people are in power then you can blame us. We will fix things. We will make up for our sins. Just wait. I have faith in humanity...if i don't there isn't anything left. Eh?

[edit on 11/8/2009 by Draves]

I think if the people of the united states overthrows their government, the rest of the world will stand up to their own and we are on to a winner, yes.

Please read my posts. When I say I want a conversations I mean I want to have you read my posts and then comment. I am trying very hard to read everyone's comments and respond, but it is near impossible. Just because I say something doesn't mean you have to tear it to shreds.

Take my ideas for yourself. Meld it. Change it into something that would work for you and then post. Let me know what you desire deep down. It is hard to explain what I mean. Constructive criticism I guess.

A few have done this. Two in particular...and one especially. If we work together, we can change the world. If you don't believe that then you are a lost soul...

Come find life...

Seriously now Draves......what are you going to do tomorrow?

Where is this going?

What is your plan?

Peace.