At Least 7 Dead, 12 Wounded in Shooting at Ft. Hood in Texas

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
Maybe it's just me.....

If the man did not want to be deployed:

1) he should have never joined the military and soaked up all the benefits.
2) He was a major, could he not have resigned his commission and left the military.
3) Ok, he did not want to go, if he needed to kill himself, ok, why kill 12 and wound 30+ others???

He was trying to convince the military to have special provisions for Muslims. But the problem is that the FBI didn't tell the military about the warning signs.
The bigger problem is muslims who join the US military and want Sharia Law.

Originally posted by JJay55
Oh yeah, here we go:
"Police arrested 22-year-old Abdul Walid Hamid of Hayward on the evening of Wednesday, Nov. 4, after he reportedly tore a crucifix from a person's neck and scared others at Stoneridge Shopping Center.
Hamid, an employee at a mall kiosk near Starbucks, has been charged with battery, terrorist threats and grand theft.

According to reports, Hamid was yelling "Allah is power" and "Islam is great" while holding a pen in a fist over his head. Witnesses said he shouted anti-Christian comments, said police."

Huh what's that go to do with this thread?

I see you also started another islam bashing thread?

Originally posted by JJay55

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
Maybe it's just me.....

If the man did not want to be deployed:

1) he should have never joined the military and soaked up all the benefits.
2) He was a major, could he not have resigned his commission and left the military.
3) Ok, he did not want to go, if he needed to kill himself, ok, why kill 12 and wound 30+ others???

He was trying to convince the military to have special provisions for Muslims. But the problem is that the FBI didn't tell the military about the warning signs.
The bigger problem is muslims who join the US military and want Sharia Law.

Hey you learned a new buzz phrase "Sharia Law". Nice to see you finally giving up on your mistaken assertions about what Fard al-Ayn means!

Now where exactly have you gotten the idea that any U.S. Soldier is asking for Sharia Law? You have been reading Jihad Watch dot Com again I take it.

There is not one credible news source that is alleging the alleged shooter ever demanded Sharia law for the military.

There is not one credible news source that is alleging any Muslim serving in the U.S. Military has demanded Sharia Law.

Besides your imagination where could someone find credible information that actually credibly documents these claims?

Originally posted by merkava
One thing for sure, hes gona meet the same fate as john allen muhammad.

Almost forgot about that guy. The Beltway Sniper, just executed yesterday after a series of drawn out trials based on a series of killings in 2002. At least 10 deaths others supected. He had a 17 year old kid as an accomplice.

Some eerie parallels, a Virginia-based ex-soldier, convert to Islam, terrorism motive came up in the trials, downplayed in the media.

www.newenglishreview.org...

John Allen Muhammad To Die Tonight

No "Allah Akbar" was heard when the Beltway snipers struck, and for the trial, several alternative motives were put forth, but the fact of Muhammad's dedication to Islam was recorded at trial (see below).

WASHINGTON — Gov. Tim Kaine of Virginia said he would not stay the scheduled execution Tuesday night of John Allen Muhammad, the man known as the D.C. Sniper whose murderous shooting spree in the fall of 2002 left at least 10 dead.

In a written statement on Tuesday, Mr. Kaine said: “I find no compelling reason to set aside the sentence that was recommended by the jury and then imposed and affirmed by the courts. Accordingly, I decline to intervene.”

On Monday, the Supreme Court refused to intervene in the case involving Mr. Muhammad, 48, who was sentenced to die for the killing of Dean H. Meyers, an engineer who was shot in the head at a gasoline station in Manassas, Va.

Mr. Meyers was one of 10 people killed in Maryland, Virginia and Washington over three weeks in October 2002. Mr. Muhammad’s accomplice, Lee Boyd Malvo, who was 17 at the time, was sentenced to life in prison without parole. The two are also suspected of fatal shootings in Alabama, Arizona and Louisiana.

[…]

A soldier-turned-auto-mechanic, Mr. Muhammad held a deep grudge against his ex-wife and society. During the Maryland trial, Mr. Malvo testified that the intent of their shooting spree was to create havoc to cover for Mr. Muhammad’s plans to kidnap his three children.

The longer-term goal, Mr. Malvo said, was to extort law enforcement to stop the shootings, after which Mr. Muhammad would take the money and move to Canada with Mr. Malvo and his three children. There, Mr. Malvo said, Mr. Muhammad planned to create a training ground for 140 young homeless men whom he would send out to wreak similar havoc and to “shut things down” in cities across the United States.

No Islam here, but Wikipedia has the following:

A series of trial exhibits indicated that Malvo and Muhammed were motivated by an affinity for Islamic Jihad.

"Exhibit 65-006: A self-portrait of Malvo in the cross hairs of a gun scope shouting, 'ALLAH AKBAR!' The word 'SALAAM' scrawled vertically. A lyric from Bob Marley's Natural Mystic 'Many more will have to suffer. Many more will have to die. Don't ask me why.'

"Exhibit 65-016: A portrait of Saddam Hussein with the words 'INSHALLAH' and 'The Protector,' surrounded by rockets labeled 'chem' and 'nuk.'
"Exhibit 65-043: Father and son portrait of Malvo and Muhammad. 'We will kill them all. Jihad.'

"Exhibit 65-056: A self-portrait of Malvo as sniper, lying in wait, with his rifle. 'JIHAD' written in bold letters. . . .

"Exhibit 65-067: A suicide bomber labeled 'Hamas' walking into a McDonald's restaurant. Another drawing of the Twin Towers burning captioned: '85 percent chance Zionists did this.' More scrawls: 'ALLAH AKBAR,' 'JIHAD' and 'Islam will explode.'

"Exhibit 65-103: A lion accompanies chapter and verse from the Koran ('Sura 2:190'): 'Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you and slay them wherever ye catch them.'

"Exhibit 65-109: Portrait of Osama bin Laden, captioned 'Servant of Allah.'
"Exhibit 65-117: The White House drawn in crosshairs, surrounded by missiles, with a warning: 'Sep. 11 we will ensure will look like a picnic to you' and 'you will bleed to death little by little.' . . .

"Exhibit 65-101: Malvo's thought for the day: 'Islam the only true guidance, the way of peace.'"

M

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by merkava
One thing for sure, hes gona meet the same fate as john allen muhammad.

Almost forgot about that guy. The Beltway Sniper, just executed yesterday after a series of drawn out trials based on a series of killings in 2002. At least 10 deaths others supected. He had a 17 year old kid as an accomplice.

Born John Allen Williams in New Orleans, Louisiana, Muhammad enlisted in the Louisiana Army National Guard in 1978 and, after seven years of service, volunteered for active duty in 1985. In 1987 he joined the Nation of Islam.[5] While in the Army, Muhammad was trained as a mechanic, truck driver and specialist metalworker. He qualified with the Army's standard infantry rifle the M16, earning the Expert Rifleman's Badge. This rating is the Army's highest of three levels of marksmanship for a basic soldier. He was discharged from military service following the Gulf War, as a sergeant, in 1994.[1

As a member of the Nation of Islam, Muhammad helped provide security for the "Million Man March" in 1995, but Nation of Islam leader, Louis Farrakhan has publicly distanced himself and his organization from Muhammad's crimes.[6] Muhammad moved out of the country and spent time with his children in Antigua around 1999, apparently engaging in credit card and immigration document fraud activities. It was during this time that he became close with Lee Boyd Malvo, who later acted as his partner in the killings. John Allen Williams changed his name to John Allen Muhammad in October 2001.

After his arrest, authorities also claimed that Muhammad admitted that he admired and modeled himself after Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda, and approved of the September 11 attacks. One of Malvo's psychiatric witnesses testified in his trial that Muhammad had indoctrinated him into believing that the proceeds of the extortion attempt would be used to begin a new nation of only young, "pure" black people somewhere in Canada. Muhammad witnessed the Mark Essex shootout live on television when he was 12.

Muhammad was twice divorced; his second wife, Mildred Muhammad, sought and was granted a restraining order. Muhammad was arrested on federal charges of violating the restraining order against him by possessing a weapon. Defense attorneys in the Malvo trial and the prosecution in Muhammad's trial argued that the ultimate goal of the killings was to kill Mildred so he would regain custody of his three children.]

Source

As you can see even his muslim fellas ditched him.

Sounds like he was just using islam to hide his real nutcase character.





[edit on 11-11-2009 by merkava]

Originally posted by merkava
As you can see even his muslim fellas ditched him.

Sounds like he was just using islam to hide his real nutcase character.

In the wake of 9/11 this case had extra disturbing components with courts and media treating it with kid gloves.

Insightful chilling details from court evidence presented attempting to ascertain motives for Muhammad and Molvo, who did most of the actually shooting.

9/11 fixation, Jihadist slogans with the inevitable "Jews did 9/11" - a highly popular theme on these boards. Great conspiratorial minds think alike?

en.wikipedia.org...

"Exhibit 65-067: A suicide bomber labeled 'Hamas' walking into a McDonald's restaurant.

Another drawing of the Twin Towers burning captioned:
'85 percent chance Zionists did this.'

More scrawls: 'ALLAH AKBAR,' 'JIHAD' and 'Islam will explode.'

M

[edit on 11-11-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by bsbray11
Are you afraid of Muslims?

Do you enjoy playing with the idea that a bunch of Muslims are on a jihad to kill you when you rant online?

Never had a thought of anyone one trying to single me out to kill me. The suggestion is solely yours. Insightful.

But I'm very afraid for others of lunatics with weapons and murderous intent. So is every rational person. I don't want to see more random killing for religious ideology. This is the topic of discussion.


M


[edit on 11-11-2009 by mmiichael]

He killed people he disliked, not people with military value to the fundamentalists. This tells us he was not fighting for a terrorist cause.

Originally posted by mmiichael
Never had a thought of anyone one trying to single me out to kill me. The suggestion is solely yours. Insightful.

It was a question. By which I was ultimately insinuating that such a belief would be irrational, if anything could be read into it at all.

But I'm very afraid for others of lunatics with weapons and murderous intent. So is every rational person.

I'm not so sure. You aren't afraid for yourself, I think that is more rational. I would personally be more afraid of dying in a car accident, and would be more worried about others doing the same. Or being murdered as a part of gang violence.

The threat of being killed by a Muslim is, to me, about as worrying as being struck by lightning. I would sooner be murdered by a self-proclaimed "Christian," whether in the name of his beliefs or not, than a Muslim where I live, and odds are the statistics would say the same thing for you where you live.

My point is, I don't want to hear about this crap next time we're talking about invading another country and destroying it, or when we're talking about keeping troops where we've already screwed things up. The US used to be isolationist. The only thing that changed that was our meddling politicians and "globalist" lobbies.

Muslims are no more dangerous than anyone else. All the paranoia is just that, and it's fed by what you see on TV and hear on the radios. Those things are known as "mass media," are run by huge corporations, and have an agenda to sell you. I don't get paid to post here, unfortunately, but there is nothing you hear on TV or radio that someone wasn't paid to say.

I've already made my doubts as to the mental stability of this shooter clear in this thread and others...

[edit on 11-11-2009 by bsbray11]

Originally posted by bsbray11
Muslims are no more dangerous than anyone else. All the paranoia is just that, and it's fed by what you see on TV and hear on the radios. Those things are known as "mass media," are run by huge corporations, and have an agenda to sell you. I don't get paid to post here, unfortunately, but there is nothing you hear on TV or radio that someone wasn't paid to say.

I've already made my doubts as to the mental stability of this shooter clear in this thread and others...

My personal life isn't directly relevant, but I have a large number of Muslim friends who have helped me shape my views. I have also had the experience of knowing people I was close to, a couple and their children, murdered in their North American home.

From what I recall no one so far has suggested harm be done to the millions of Muslims in North America or elsewhere. But an unavoidable topic raised by this horrific event and others is that there have been a series of mass murders in America done in the name of Islam.

One can attempt to invert the issue by claiming anyone touching on this point is promoting hatred, paranoid, racist, whatever. A common tactic used to deflect from highly sensitive issues.

The repeated spins put into online conspiracy site messages to me is as telling a barometer of opinion as what the commercial media does.


M

[edit on 11-11-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by mmiichael
From what I recall no one so far has suggested harm be done to the millions of Muslims in North America or elsewhere. But an unavoidable topic raised by this horrific event and others is that there have been a series of mass murders in America done in the name of Islam.

And even more mass murders not done in the name of Islam... Like the VA Tech shootings that killed even more people.

Just being clear, the problem is not Islam, but deranged people in general.

One can attempt to invert the issue by claiming anyone touching on this point is promoting hatred, paranoid, racist, whatever. A common tactic used to deflect from highly sensitive issues.

I am not deflecting from anything. If you want to say Muslims are a problem in this country and abroad, go ahead and say it. Everyone's listening.

Originally posted by bsbray11
And even more mass murders not done in the name of Islam... Like the VA Tech shootings that killed even more people.

Just being clear, the problem is not Islam, but deranged people in general.

There are killings done for many different reasons and much analysis. But we're discussing an exceptional mass murder that happened this week.

I am not deflecting from anything. If you want to say Muslims are a problem in this country and abroad, go ahead and say it. Everyone's listening.

You are deflecting. There have been Muslims in the US for a long time. That is not a problem, at least not to me.

What I consider a problem is an increasingly embraced ideology being imported from extremist elements in the Middle East, promoted by domestic religious leaders, that the killing of inactive military personnel and even ordinary civilians is desirable and justified.

Murder in the name of a religious ideology is terrible. Sanctioning murders in the name of a religious ideology is terrible.

Pointing out other reasons why murders are committed does not diminish the severity of such crimes or change their special nature.


M

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by bsbray11
And even more mass murders not done in the name of Islam... Like the VA Tech shootings that killed even more people.

Just being clear, the problem is not Islam, but deranged people in general

There are killings done for many different reasons and much analysis. But we're discussing an exceptional mass murder that happened this week.

Yes, we are. And we happen to be talking about it now by comparing it to similar events, many of which did not involve Islam or Muslims at all.

I am not deflecting from anything. If you want to say Muslims are a problem in this country and abroad, go ahead and say it. Everyone's listening.

You are deflecting. There have been Muslims in the US for a long time. That is not a problem, at least not to me.

Good. So at least the problem, according to you, is not Muslims.

What I consider a problem is an increasingly embraced ideology being imported from extremist elements in the Middle East, promoted by domestic religious leaders, that the killing of inactive military personnel and even ordinary civilians is desirable and justified.

If such a thing exists, then it surely is a problem, but not one that ranks any higher by the number of deaths, than regular mass murder or just even murder in general.

Murder in the name of a religious ideology is terrible. Sanctioning murders in the name of a religious ideology is terrible.

All murder is terrible.

Pointing out other reasons why murders are committed does not diminish the severity of such crimes or change their special nature.

No, all murder is equally terrible, like I just said.

[edit on 11-11-2009 by bsbray11]

I "believe" I read he closed all his accounts and paid them in full.

This implies to me he did not plan on coming back.

If he chose to kill himself, that would have been one thing.

What he did was kill 12 others and wound 30+ more.

I guess I just can't see how killing them would make an difference to him... seriously.

If, as some have suggested, he picked some people he did not like, with the I am dyeing, what does it matter. then why pay all his bills???

Now think about that for a second.

Either he has the mentality of it does not matter or not.

I am confused.

I also don't see what killing and wounding others achieved-except possibly revenge??

It all just does not add up to me.

The official version has the perp using only one semi-automatic pistol firing .22cal-size ammo. But early reports had other weapons mentioned--


news.yahoo.com...
One of the shooters at large was believed to have a high-powered sniper rifle, and was holed up in a building surrounded by SWAT teams, MSNBC said.
"He heard small arms and some rifle fire while he was there.....''

www.msnbc.msn.com...
KCEN quoted a source as saying the shooter had a high-powered rifle.

www.freerepublic.com...
forum post no. 30
dead shooter had 2 handguns, captured major carried a rifle

forums.fingerlakes1.com...
2 suspects with M16s, 1 neutralized.

forum.prisonplanet.com...
forum post no. 572
I turned on Cnn.com at 2:30 central time. 1 hour after the shooting. They had a general on air, and said multiple times that they were using M-16s.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
--foxnews-- A general is saying that M16s were involved [greeneyedleo]
--Retired Army General [Bob Scales] on the phone saying the weapons used were M16's [CX]
--Local news from Central Texas is still stating an assault rifle and hand guns. [pg 36 justaposter]

www.mcclatchydc.com...
Details of the events were sketchy, but officials said the shooting involved two men with M-16 rifles

rigorousintuition.ca...
From KCEN-TV in Waco, Texas:
Reports say the shooter had a high-powered rifle and was aiming to kill.



------------

High-velocity rounds from a semi-automatic rifle would explain the high death count far better than that pea-shooter Hasan allegedly was using.

It seems that many are concerned, not that people were killed, but that they were killed by a Muslim.

So if these people killed in the service of oil interests/empire as American soldiers do, then there would be no grounds for complaint from those here who complain the most about Muslims. That would be a sound moral basis for killing.

It takes an exceptional naivety to believe that you could walk in and take an Arab's land, oil, overthrow his government and society, kill his friends or children or neighbours, and expect that he retaliate only because he's a Muslim.

Originally posted by phoneyid
It seems that many are concerned, not that people were killed, but that they were killed by a Muslim.

So if these people killed in the service of oil interests/empire as American soldiers do, then there would be no grounds for complaint from those here who complain the most about Muslims. That would be a sound moral basis for killing.

It takes an exceptional naivety to believe that you could walk in and take an Arab's land, oil, overthrow his government and society, kill his friends or children or neighbours, and expect that he retaliate only because he's a Muslim.

I very rarely quote an entire post, but here I have to

Firstly, I would like to applaud your very relevant post to this thread that was posted in this thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Everyone should see that response.

And in here the above quoted post is also very true
And that's what I was saying, this is about being against foreign occupation

It is delusional to think that people won't be angry and what phoneyid has described above.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Millions of people were "angry" about invading Iraq. Millions of people still are "angry".

In a civilized democracy, we express our anger by forming political movements and challenging the people in power. Not by murdering people.

If these murders were politically motivated then in my view that makes it even more contemptible.

No matter how upset or aggrieved you are, there is no justification for this. None. This individual must have been radicalised and incited to behave in this fashion. I think people will want to know who by and for what purpose.

Originally posted by mattpryor
Millions of people were "angry" about invading Iraq. Millions of people still are "angry".

not much anymore
since obama took office the anti-war movement is almost dead

it's still alive, but nowhere near when bush was in power

Originally posted by mattpryor
In a civilized democracy, we express our anger by forming political movements and challenging the people in power. Not by murdering people.

Are you currently under the assumption that you are living in a civilized democracy right now as your rights are getting stripped day by day?

In a civilized democracy these wars wouldn't have existed to begin with.

Murdering people for murdering people is not the answer, that's why you don't see fort hood shootings daily, but surely you can expect it to happen every now and then.

Originally posted by mattpryor
No matter how upset or aggrieved you are, there is no justification for this. None. This individual must have been radicalised and incited to behave in this fashion. I think people will want to know who by and for what purpose.

I don't think he must have been radicalized
how many vets or soldiers wish to commit suicide?
there's a thin line between murder and suicide my friend.