At Least 7 Dead, 12 Wounded in Shooting at Ft. Hood in Texas

Originally posted by earlywatcher
it appears to me that the problem is not a desire to blame all muslims or even suspect all muslims of harboring terrorist tendencies, the problem is an unwillingness to pay attention to red flags presented by an individual if that individual happens to be mulim.

Exactly. Try to convey this to people who believe in victimization. Good luck with that. ;-)

Anyway, the Beltway killers also fell through the cracks because no one wanted to approach a muslim and question his behavior for fear of being called a racist, bigot, blah blah blah. So how many more incidents will happen because people will get jumped every time they say the word "muslim" and be called a racist, accused of lumping all muslims together... blah blah blah.

Funny how people claim not to have time to become educated about Islam and the dangers but have time to rant on forums about other people who are working progressively to make a difference.

Originally posted by amyfriend
Im sorry,,,just mad and sad at this horror....
huggs everyone

No need to apologize. Your feelings are accurate. You also shouldn't have to worry or be scared about being called a racist or bigot for expressing your point of view.

Originally posted by mmiichael
Predictably there is an incredibly strenuous effort here to deflect from the issue at hand. Trying to subvert concern for the spread of an increasing popular anti-Western, anti-Christian, anti-Semitic religiously encased political agenda, genuflecting apologists vainly attempt to dismiss any criticism of what is evolving as simple anti-Muslim racism.

Had the US military not succumbed to this fear of appearing discriminatory and thrown this guy out of their ranks instead of promoting him, it's likely we would not be having this discussion.

Nice post! So typical of the internet to have trolls who deflect.

ANyway, the government will now be charged with looking for these signs and it's going to cost more taxpayer money to avoid more terrorism attacks like this in the future.

Originally posted by JJay55

Originally posted by mmiichael
Predictably there is an incredibly strenuous effort here to deflect from the issue at hand. Trying to subvert concern for the spread of an increasing popular anti-Western, anti-Christian, anti-Semitic religiously encased political agenda, genuflecting apologists vainly attempt to dismiss any criticism of what is evolving as simple anti-Muslim racism.

Had the US military not succumbed to this fear of appearing discriminatory and thrown this guy out of their ranks instead of promoting him, it's likely we would not be having this discussion.

Nice post! So typical of the internet to have trolls who deflect.

ANyway, the government will now be charged with looking for these signs and it's going to cost more taxpayer money to avoid more terrorism attacks like this in the future.

No, IMO this was not a deflection and the poster was in fact right on. It's looking more and more like this guy had an agenda and people in the army knew about it, but for some reason - political correctness? - decided to give him a pass. Now 13 people are dead and over 30 wounded because of that decision.

I listened last night to an interview with a former classmate of this guy from Bethesda. They were all supposed to do a presentation on medical issues, but Nassan did his instead on being a muslim in the military and how his religion superseded everything else including his oath to support and defend the constitution against all enemies foreign or domestic.

I posted this on another thread:

Too bad that mohammed didn't write in the koran that god commands muslims that are not happy with their situations to only kill themselves.

[edit on 11/10/2009 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by centurion1211
... They were all supposed to do a presentation on medical issues, but Nassan did his instead on being a muslim in the military and how his religion superseded everything else including his oath to support and defend the constitution against all enemies foreign or domestic.

Exactly. Muslims will admit that Sharia Law rules them. And in many cases Sharia Law is against US law.

reply to post by JJay55


Here's some news that mite make you happy!

Suicide blast kills 25 in Charsadda

The vehicle rigged with explosives blew up in the heart of Charsadda on a road lined with fruit and juice shops, ripping off shop roofs and littering the ground with slippers, human flesh and broken push carts, witnesses said.

Source - timesofindia.indiatimes.com...

Is this also a part of the Fard Al Ayn you were talking about, killing fellow muslims???

Originally posted by CuteAngel
reply to post by JJay55

 

Here's some news that mite make you happy!

Suicide blast kills 25 in Charsadda

The vehicle rigged with explosives blew up in the heart of Charsadda on a road lined with fruit and juice shops, ripping off shop roofs and littering the ground with slippers, human flesh and broken push carts, witnesses said.

Source - timesofindia.indiatimes.com...

Is this also a part of the Fard Al Ayn you were talking about, killing fellow muslims???

Why would that make me happy?
Yes it is part of Fard Al Ayn which contains alot of anger and violence and results in death. So why don't they stop killing? Can you answer that?

I made this prediction early on in the thread.........

Personally I believe he disagreed strongly with what was going on over seas, I believe his strong muslim belief drove him over the edge in thinking that the military is just out slaughtering muslims, and he thought he would put a damper on it by taking out the next shipment of GIs going out the door. I believe he was disgruntled and honestly thought it was his duty to "save" his muslim brethren by taking out the people he viewed were sent there to kill muslims...... He used personal civilian handguns, not military issue, which makes it more personal to him. Most of us prior military know that we dont target muslims, we just want the extremist 6feet under. Just my thoughts..... Pray for those at Ft.Hood

I got slammed for it, but looks like maybe I wasnt far off the mark

reply to post by JJay55



That was political agenda, nothing more.

How does this constitute Fard Al Ayn??? Was'nt that meant for non believers as well as people who are non muslims. Pakistan is 100% Islam, mite be a few christians though. But how in the world does this constitute Fard Al Ayn???

Originally posted by CuteAngel
reply to post by JJay55

 

That was political agenda, nothing more.

How does this constitute Fard Al Ayn??? Was'nt that meant for non believers as well as people who are non muslims. Pakistan is 100% Islam, mite be a few christians though. But how in the world does this constitute Fard Al Ayn???

I'd be glad to explain, thank you.
Fard ayn is like a club, you are either part of the gang and do the duty expressed in the Koran to punish non-believers or you are one of them, thus subjected to death. Now if a good well believing muslim happens to get caught in the cross fire then he is martyred and a hero and goes to heaven and receives many rewards, this is a high honor.

So in other words, any muslim in an Islamic country who is participating with the government who supports the West is a traitor in the eyes of Islam and should be killed. That's why in Iraq the police stations and others working for a new government are often killed. The "true" muslims see them as infidels and part of the West. Same as apostates. Once you are a muslim you are always a muslims and if you support the west you have violated Sharia Law and should die. Sword of Perecles in a sense, but enforced with real violence.

Same principle when the father in Texas ran over his daughter for being "too Westernized". Muslims admit this. They don't hide their beliefs. But many of their beliefs are against US law. So which should we go by?

There is no doubt the Hasan was in the military soon after he graduated high school in 1988, when records put him at Ft. Irwin, in the mojave desert. So why does the army refuse to acknowledge this or even address the issue? When I was in, enlisted men did a minimum of four years active, yet Hasan is back to being a community college student near his home town of Roanoke soon after Ft. Irwin, studying from 1990 to 1992. That was right about the time Gulf War I breaks out. Apparently the army didn't need any arabic speakers as translators or intell guys. Did the Army release him from his commitment? No way. Not unless he was doing army business. Then later he goes onto to study at expensive Virginia Tech [in contradiction to earlier reports, no help from any ROTC scholarship]. How did he support himself and his tuition all these years? There is no record of a job during any of this period.

Originally posted by CuteAngel
reply to post by JJay55

 

That was political agenda, nothing more.

How does this constitute Fard Al Ayn??? Was'nt that meant for non believers as well as people who are non muslims. Pakistan is 100% Islam, mite be a few christians though. But how in the world does this constitute Fard Al Ayn???

Fard al-Ayn
In Islamic law, refers to legal obligations that must be performed by each individual Muslim, including prayer, charity, fasting, and pilgrimage. Individual obligation is contrasted with communal obligation (fard al-kifayah). The question of whether the obligation of “reproaching the unjust ruler” or, more generally, the obligation to “command the good and forbid the reprehensible” is an obligation on each individual or can be satisfied by part of the community is debated, particularly among Shii scholars.

Oxford Islamic Studies

Just in case anyone wants to know the actual real definition of Fard al-Ayn as Muslims know and practice it as opposed to what non-Muslim bigots imagine it is.

It includes such radical things as prayer! Oh and this real horrible one, Charity! Oh how dare they be charitible! Fasting and pilgrimage to Mecca.

Of course some people would prefer to believe a bigot instead of Oxford University!

[edit on 10/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Wow Proto it sounds like someone posting to this thread is really mixed up and is not only mistaking what Fard al-Ayn means but has it totally confused with fard al-kifayah!

I don't think they actually know that fard al-kifayah is something that is only being debated in one of the two sects of Islam the Shia Sect and not the Sunni Sect.

I don't think they actually know that the debate is centered on the concept that the community has an obligation to reproach un-just rulers! That the debate regarding fard al-kifayah is whether there is a communal obligation as oppoesed to an individual legal obligation and if the community in general should oppose unjust rulers and how.

Of course none of what's being debated in regards to that is written in the Quran which is why it's a debate amongst some radical and politically minded Muslims.

I wonder how the bigots got that so confused?



[edit on 10/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Pretty good guess my friend but you know people shouldn't have to guess or assume important things let's take a look at what the bigots are really mis-identifying!

Fard al-Kifayah
Defines a communal obligation in Muslim legal doctrine. In juxtaposition to fard al-ayn, fard al-kifayah is a legal obligation that must be discharged by the Muslim community as a whole, such as military struggle; if enough members in the Muslim community discharge the obligation, the remaining Muslims are freed from the responsibility before God. However, if a communal obligation is not sufficiently discharged, then every individual Muslim must act to address the deficiency. In recent Islamic literature, this terminology is used to discuss social responsibility, such as feeding the hungry, commanding good, and forbidding evil.

Oxford Islamic Studies

It's a legal obligation that the whole community is responsible for making sure it happens but if enough of them take part some of them don't have to as long as they get the job done.

If they don't every Muslim has to take part and keep trying.

Recently this as been used to do such wicked anti-Western things as 'Feeding the Hungry'.

I know, I know feeding the hungry is just insane. The good news it will take them a while to finish feeding all the hungry before they can start on wiping out all un non-Muslims that is if they ever agree that it is a community responsibility which so far they haven't.

Thanks for asking, isn't it amazing the differences in what Oxford University and Jihad Watch dot Com teach?








[edit on 10/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Too many early reports refer to more than one assailant, for the official version of just one shooter to be true--


www.cnn.com...
At least one person is "neutralized" in connection with the incident, and a second is "cornered," retired Army Lt. Gen. Russel Honore told CNN, citing "unofficial, unconfirmed reports" from two sources.

news.yahoo.com...
Armed gunmen Thursday killed .....
A suspect was in custody, Master Sergeant Tim Volkert at Fort Hood told AFP.
But a Killeen police department spokeswoman warned there were still suspects at large. "There has been a shooting at Fort Hood and all the suspects are not in custody at this time," she told AFP. "I know they have active shooters out there."
MSNBC reported there were at least two shooters, with one in custody, adding there was speculation that there may be a third gunman.

www.msnbc.msn.com...
One gunman was reportedly in custody and another was on the loose, NBC News said. A third shooter may be involved, according to NBC News affiliate KCEN in Waco...

www.kdhnews.com...
There are two confirmed suspect shooters, one in custody and another surrounded by swat in a building on post.

www.statesman.com...
Army spokesman Lt. Col. Nathan Banks ... says two shooters were apparently involved.

www.statesman.com...
Fort Hood spokeswoman Sgt. Rebekah Lampan says authorities believe at least two gunmen were involved in the attack on Thursday.

www.freerepublic.com...^www.msnbc.msn.com...
Milly Land, who works at the base fitness center, said she was headed for the graduation ceremony at 2 p.m. at the Howze Theater when the campus was locked down. She went back to the fitness center. She said she spoke by phone with friends at the soldier processing center, who said a gunman walked in about 1:30, walked to the medical area of the processing center, and started shooting. A second gunman was shooting at the theater next door, she said.

www.foxnews.com...
All three of the people believed to have carried out the shooting were soldiers, Lt. General Bob Cone told reporters Thursday evening.

forum.prisonplanet.com...
no.162
--rick perry (gov and bilderberg member) said there were 3 shooters

ca.news.yahoo.com...
Base spokesman Sergeant Major Jamie Poston
"At this point we're looking for the other shooter.... " he added.
"We are on the lookout for the second shooter," Poston said.

ATS
www.abovetopsecret.com...
posts
--''They are reporting a third shooter now.''
[That source was Ms. Shine from the Public Affairs office of Killeen, TX]
--''3rd shooter now being reported as having been shooting "moments ago".''
--''Shepard Smith was talking with someone who confirmed a 3rd shooter.''
--pg19[dwiggen] ''My buddy at Hood just told me that there's a FOURTH SHOOTER! ....There is a confirmed FOURTH SHOOTER who is still at large. They just launched aircraft to search for him. My buddy.. is an Apache mechanic, and they just got word to spin their birds up and go lookin for this guy.''

www.telegraph.co.uk...
One gunman was caught quickly but the second went on the run and was cornered by SWAT teams

blogs.news.com.au...
KCEN-TV in Waco is reporting that one gunman is in custody, the other is involved in a standoff with police. The station is reporting that there is a third shooter.

www.mcclatchydc.com...
Details of the events were sketchy, but officials said the shooting involved two men with M-16 rifles and began about 1:30 p.m.


/

This incident had two shooters too:
"The ambush Sept. 5, 2002, outside Margellina's Restaurant in Clinton, Md., launched an autumn of terror in which Malvo and Muhammad, known then simply as the D.C. snipers, paralyzed the nation's capital, Maryland and Virginia. When the shooting finally stopped, 10 people were dead and six others wounded. A new landmark looms in one of the most heinous murder cases in U.S. history: Muhammad, 48, is scheduled to be executed Tuesday as the mastermind of the rampage."

He dies today by lethal injection.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by JJay55

 

Explain this video of the muslim communitity celebrating this brave muslim

Were there 1.6 billion people in the video, because that's how large the Islamic Community really is.

Perhaps they were home quietly celebrating. Can you prove they were not?

Do they all have little notarized stamps on their foreheads that say "I am a genuine and certified Muslim", some people might be a little suspect of news manufactured by a entity called Jihad Watch.

Sounds like a wierd Swatch to me!

Others might be suspect of the people that constantly try to deflect and defend the indefensible.

reply to post by centurion1211


Can you prove you weren't celebrating right along with them!

Seems to me the bigots are the first to overlook the tragedy and to start exploiting a political agenda out of it.

My political agenda is the U.S. Constitution...NO RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION.

What's yours?


[edit on 10/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by JJay55
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

dude, this isn't about religious persecution.
I would suggest that you research Islam to understand what they are trying to tell you.

Really? See it sounds like religious persecution to me. When someone starts saying not to tollerate anything a certain religion does and to put them under additional and constant scrutiny because of their religion.

Dude, who said "anything a certain religion does"? We're only discussing "a certain religion's" need to kill the people that don't agree with it.

reply to post by centurion1211


No what you are doing is imagining how you think a certain religion does that by misapplying words and terms and then deflecting away when it's shown that people are.

Do you have anything productive to add to the conversation friend?

Or are you just looking for a platform to promote bigotry?