At Least 7 Dead, 12 Wounded in Shooting at Ft. Hood in Texas

I apologize if this issue has already been raised. I've dropped in the thread now and then but not read every page.

the shooter was a doctor. a psychiatrist trained at great expense by the military. surely he wasn't being deployed to FIGHT. he was going to afghanistan to provide medical services. so why all the concern about being expected to kill fellow muslims? he wasn't going there to kill anybody. has anybody mentioned this aspect? haven't heard it in the media. they keep talking like he was in the infantry. he wasn't going to treat physical wounds so probably wouldn't be anywhere near a battlefield. He would do counseling type treatment, maybe administer drugs. exactly what he did here. i realize he was quite upset by it. i think he should have been removed from active duty for trying to convert patients to islam, or at least disciplined, but he wasn't. what exactly was he going to be doing that was any different, in afghanistan?

reply to post by Hemisphere

Thanks for the condensation, interesting take. I on the other hand am of the opinion that the PTB are more using what has been presented to them but I can see your line of thinking. That would explain why the Exodus is not recorded in Egypt. Wow, I thought my take was conspiratorial enough!

The Powers that Be are all members of Roman Institutions, Knights of Rome or nobles of Rome and act on Rome’s behalf. I don’t believe the Roman Empire ever went out of business friend. I believe it went underground to protect its principals and ensure it’s survival as well as success. They simply developed a covert form of divide and conquer warfare where people nationalities and religious differences could be exploited to have them slowly but surely eliminate one another and to create a permanent state of warfare where eventually a one world government would be seen by the war weary people as the only real way to end war.

While the individual nations are contractually bound through Treaties to Rome the people themselves aren’t aware of it and rather than fight against Rome fight against one another out of national pride, and easily exploited religious differences.

Yes the powers that be do try to make events mimic biblical philosophy but in my humble opinion that is not an opportunistic idea that they seized upon randomly but that the various religious texts were written especially for conditioning the people to events that were prophesized through them so that once again instead of fighting against Rome they would accept this as the inevitable decision by a G-d that they can’t fight against either.

They can’t fight back against Rome because Rome (not the Vatican) itself is hidden in the shadows orchestrating the events through the Powers that Be that of course are quite wealthy as a result of their lofty position and responsibility towards the empire.

The trilogy of religious branches based off the same G-d all written to go hand in hand with the other create the classic both sides against the middle form of divide and conquer warfare and that is exactly what you have.

The Israelis exploit the similarities between Judaism and Christianity while downplaying the differences to manipulate the Christians into protecting them against the Muslims who they constantly agitate through their collective and deliberate actions, all the while illustrating constantly for the Christians the differences between Christianity and Islam and highlighting them in over exaggerated ways. They constantly bait the Muslims in ways that Islamic reactions to in fact highlight the differences further. The Muslims of course more or less have to go through the Christians in order to actually get to the Israelis that bait them. This ends up tending to place great emphasis on the differences between Christianity and Islam in even more demonstrable ways. The Powers that Be
and the Israelis simply work to create the perception that it is simply the differences in the Religions alone that is
causing the Muslims to react to how they are bated and then persecuted as a result.

One side manipulates the Christians into a confrontational stance; the other side overtly attacks the Christians for taking that confrontational stance.

Once these three religions basically eliminate one another through all the divisiveness and violence then a one world government without divisiveness can be introduced along Communist/Capitalist lines like we have seen the Powers that Be rapidly grow in China. One world government will be the mix of an authoritarian totalitarian police state with capitalist incentives and additional freedoms for being productive and greater freedoms and luxuries for the managers and security with a dictatorial leadership at top.

My friend mmichael chides me for reverse engineering history to create a conspiracy based on paranoia and imagination for imagination sakes. He believes that all events are just random by people out for as much power and control as they can individually acquire. Many other people favor a Powers that Be conspiracy like your self where they are just being opportunistic by mimicking biblical philosophy. Of course the truly religious see it all as part of G-d’s grand plan with humans just inevitably succumbing to their pre-ordained weaknesses.

I though think it’s Rome all along that designed everything to go down just the way it is by devising a covert strategy to ensure it’s eventual success that would never expose it directly to the masses before it was too late.

The bad news I fear is we will be finding out who is right or wrong in relatively short order.

Events like have happened at Fort Hood certainly don’t slow things down friend.

reply to post by orangetom1999


I appreciate you taking the time to share with me the things you did. First let me say I respect that people have a need for faith and a need to believe something greater than humans alone is involved in shaping life and human kind’s destiny.

To me though the reality is no matter how much of a purist one is going through these texts and writings that comprise the various gospels and laws that people in the religions founded by Abraham follow that there is always an element of political exploitation involved.

For the sake of our discussion let’s call that Rome.

For instance nothing in the Bible told or suggested to Conquistadors when they discovered indigenous Central Americans committing mass ritualized human sacrifice to put an end to that practice. It was their individual and collective Christian based morality though that caused them to conclude that they should put an end to that practice even if it meant exterminating the people as they tried to convert them to the Christian faith.

Ultimately the Pope did weigh in on the matter as the Spaniards were Roman Catholics and a member state of the Holy Roman Empire at the time, and the Pope did tell them it was their Christian duty to convert these people and to end their non-Christian practices.

Did the Bible tell them to do this? No you are right it absolutely did not. Did their morality formed through Christian doctrine cause them to feel as individual and collective human beings to do this? Yes it did.

Often what’s in the book is not as important as the fact that people’s belief in the book binds them together in a common and shared belief and purpose and this often allows for them to be exploited in their G-d’s name even through it wasn’t written in the Bible and no near by burning bush told them to do this.

It’s usually a man or woman that tells them it’s their duty as good Christians to do this or that holding out that bit of added validation or absolution to motivate them as Christians to sometimes do some terribly un-Christian things.

One of the powers of people operating in a closed mindset/universe based on spirituality or morality put forth to them and instilled in them through religion is it’s very possible to anticipate how such like minded and affiliated people are likely to respond to certain circumstances.

It becomes much easier then to manipulate events that are bound to provoke an emotional reaction based on a shared spirituality or morality. When an additional or outside authority then extols people either through the priestly class or the ruling political class ‘it’s the Christian thing to do’ that bit of manipulation that is both flattering and challenging often does become compelling to them. Whether it was countering the G-dless communist horde, or bring the ‘true word’ to some pagan isolated culture on some tropical island G-d’s incredible desire in every sporting team’s locker room around the world to want them to win, pre-cast and predictable religious mindsets are exploitable by people who can make some very un-Christian things to do seem very Christian simply by using their own vested authority to evoke the G-d like George Bush claiming “G-d told me when I was walking in the Rose Garden to free Iraq”…After all it’s the Christian thing to do.

It’s often what is not in the book that leads to this exploitation of a people who in large part can be read like a book because they all read the same book!

My point being is what’s in the books and isn’t in the books often as little to do with it. What does have a lot to do with it is when the political ruling class or the priestly ruling class decides to exploit people of religion by extorting them to do things that they ‘should’ want to do and recognize a ‘responsibility’ to do based on the religion.

The religious themselves often like taking advantage of the validation and absolution they feel that some acts carried out through this type of exploitation is then afforded them by the political or priestly class to then look at their books and parse words. It says here, it doesn’t say there, theirs says or doesn’t say, is all neither rather here nor there in my humble opinion.

What is important in my humble opinion that people already indoctrinated on the concept of accepting G-d and their religion on sheer faith alone become much more susceptible to political and priestly exploitation based on taking their edicts, suppositions and conclusions on sheer faith alone as well.

As far as Christians go, I truly admire the Amish, those people know how to read a book and follow it to the letter.
No arguing about what it means, and they don’t let other people exploit them as far as the fact that they believe in the book to convince them it’s the Christian thing to do something that the Book forbids. They simply follow what the book says, in other words I won’t judge whether the indigenous Central Americans are wrong for sacrificing their brothers and sisters in blood ritual, it’s G-d’s place to do that and his place to decide what to do about it.

The parsing word crowd though will judge and act and then later seek forgiveness and absolution based on parsing words or the fact that the Priestly Class or the Political Class said it was OK.

Personally I believe the real Christians hailed from England and it was a Celtic/Druid sect that Rome took great care to stamp out.

Yes Islam overtly spread through violence initially they were quite committed to it. You are quite correct about that.

However I do feel I am quite correct in my assertion that all religions are easily manipulated by politics in large part because the main concept and reward of religion is validation and absolution by G-d and eternal punishment or reward for achieving that validation and absolution through doing some things on sheer faith alone and accepting some things on sheer faith alone and that is exactly what good and bad governments alike prefer their citizens to do in following the laws they make and the policies they formulate on sheer faith alone in exchange for absolution for not challenging the state.

When governments get bad and corrupt often they are still followed and not challenged by the religious who simply say “it’s a sign of the times, prophecies are coming true”!

In other words they often seek absolution through abdication based on faith alone in ways that judging by the state of today’s world isn’t necessarily wise.

Often when someone like me speaks to religion the automatic assumption is that I am for someone else’s religion or favor it and I am not. I am not and will not try to judge who is guiltier or less guilty of religious manipulation.

Often people see this as me being anti-religious, I am not, I favor people’s right to worship what ever they want but to keep it separated from politics. Organize religion loves to corrupt the political process for the sake of religious morality and favor, and politics love to corrupt organize religion for the sake of power and influence.

I would like to see the world solve its social and economic problems but religion despite the many charitable works religion and the religious do often complicate and confound that because of the need that validation and absolution create in the religiously minded. No Christian could ever think the path to redemption and heaven lies through anything but Christianity just as no Muslim imagines that same path lies through Judaism. The need to validate one’s religion by convincing every other religion as well as the non religious is overwhelming and intrusive to the point of prevalent violence in that regard. To that self defeating extent all religions tend to be part of the problem and while they imagine they are all singularly part of the solution the reality is it’s that singular desire for their individual religion to be likewise the singular path towards a solution that exasperates and complicates solving the social economic and political problems.

This of course just invites believers to start saying what’s in their book, and what’s not in their book, and what’s in someone else’s books.

Honestly I really don’t care! War, poverty, violence and intolerance of others really annoys and perturbs me and it just serves to aggravate me further when no one wants to be responsible and passes the buck on to the other guy because they have a different book.

I hope you can at least basically understand where I am coming from even if it’s not altogether appreciated that I come from there.

Yes there are some Jews who believe Jesus really was the Son of G-d. Yes it makes sense they wouldn’t full prescribe to Christianity either since they are Hebrews with a twist. No offense but I am hearing more Hebrews who believe in Christ pop up online as of late and it tends to just make me feel from a political standpoint as the stage draws near when Hebrews are going to need to truly count on the alliance and support of Christians in the conflict that both Islam and the Jews keep pushing see more similarities between Hebrew and Christian sects and never focus on the differences especially those that do exist in Talmudic Law.

That’s all politics in my humble opinion and where I am coming from is all politics, I don’t want to see any one side win, I want to see every side win. I don’t want to see any one side loose, I don’t want anyone to loose.

I don’t want to look for excuses for war and death and destruction and why it might be a good thing.

I want to look for ways for people to truly learn to tolerate and accept each other and their differing views in a lasting and meaningful peace in something that just couldn’t be a bad thing.

Yeah I am a dreamer! Life is after all a dream and I sure wish people would stop trying so hard

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


ProtoplasmicTraveler,

To me though the reality is no matter how much of a purist one is going through these texts and writings that comprise the various gospels and laws that people in the religions founded by Abraham follow that there is always an element of political exploitation involved.

This is today sometimes expressed as Hegelian Dialectic..or sometimes under the religion of politics..."The State is God."

Another version of this in times past is called "Divine Right of Kings."
In the Western World this was put to death with the Beheading of King Charles 1st by the Puritans and Oliver Cromwell in 1649. The English Civil War etc.

For the sake of our discussion let’s call that Rome.

My limited understanding of this is that Rome has competition in this field.
What this group...or groups do not do is hang out their laundry for the profane public to see. Rome has groups who don't like them and this has been going on for over a thousand years. There has even been problems in Rome itself with different factions disagreeing with their hierarchy...The Society of Jesus for example and their Black Popes in bed with the Sandinistas in Central America. Liberation Theology. Very interesting relationship. How many Jesuit Colleges do we have here in America. Loyola University, Georgetown, Loyola Marymount??

There is no other factor outside of religion which will determine the economic status or prosperity of a nation. None. The religion of a nation will be almost the sole determining factor of how a nations economic prosperity does.

Often what’s in the book is not as important as the fact that people’s belief in the book binds them together in a common and shared belief and purpose and this often allows for them to be exploited in their G-d’s name even through it wasn’t written in the Bible and no near by burning bush told them to do this.

You have a problem here in this quote above. That problem is that in the RCC...knowing the bible and what was in there was not big on the agenda for Roman Catholics. Church and obedience to the Mother Church was the dogma taught. Most people could not read and were read to or quoted to by the priesthood without any mechanism to check up on if the priesthood was telling them the truth or not. This is true today among many believers who do not check up on their pastors or priests. I call them Rice Christians. They tend to go where the rice bowel is the fullest. As long as it is full and pretty ..they are happy no matter how dumb it is. Christianity is not the only religion afflicted with this kind of nonsense.

It’s usually a man or woman that tells them it’s their duty as good Christians to do this or that holding out that bit of added validation or absolution to motivate them as Christians to sometimes do some terribly un-Christian things.

A knowledgeable Christian knows better than this. They read their Bible and check up on what is said and taught. No priest or pastor can save you...or me. We do not also save ourselves. Hence added validation or absolution is nonsense in this. Preachers get tired of trying this on me when they sense that I am what is called Sovereign Grace...not free will. They quickly leave me alone in this because most preachers are free will.
More Christians need to be Salty ..not sugary and sweet...we are the salt of the Earth not the sugar.

One of the powers of people operating in a closed mindset/universe based on spirituality or morality put forth to them and instilled in them through religion is it’s very possible to anticipate how such like minded and affiliated people are likely to respond to certain circumstances.

You are also describing politics here. And politics pays for and finances public education. What religion is the body politic instilling in our people in order to get an anticipatory response in people..especially people with mostly a television/movie education....in emotions.

With an education of this type could you guarantee how an emotionally educated drama queen or train wreck is going to vote in the voting booth??
How about with drama queens or train wrecks educated in entitlement belief systems??

You have another problem here in this quote...

It becomes much easier then to manipulate events that are bound to provoke an emotional reaction based on a shared spirituality or morality.

Indeed it does. There is a problem here. This is not a dictum of Christianity. We are not to become emotional train wrecks or drama queens under Christian disciplines. We are not to give into our baser passions.
You will find this practice and dogma in Occult/Pagan religions. This is a very significant difference to those who know the pattern. I am very wary of overly emotional peoples. Undisciplined peoples.
What you are also describing in your post or quote above is the baser nature of politics..and once again..the body politic pays for and finances public education...which is rapidly becoming a television/movie education..in emotional grooming. This is Paganism..not Christian.
However..also sadly ..not many believers are schooled in this knowledge.

It’s often what is not in the book that leads to this exploitation of a people who in large part can be read like a book because they all read the same book!

One needs be careful here as this is often a fingerprint of counterfeit doctrines or paganism infiltrating and overtaking Christian teachings in substitution. This is also Occult..in that this substitution is in secret and without the knowledge of most peoples. Talmud is just such a substitution.
This substitution/counterfeit can be found in the Bible if one knows where to look. Talmud is not part of the Olde Testament instructions to Hebrews nor instructions to Christians in the New Testament.

However I do feel I am quite correct in my assertion that all religions are easily manipulated by politics in large part because the main concept and reward of religion is validation and absolution by G-d and eternal punishment or reward for achieving that validation and absolution through doing some things on sheer faith alone and accepting some things on sheer faith alone and that is exactly what good and bad governments alike prefer their citizens to do in following the laws they make and the policies they formulate on sheer faith alone in exchange for absolution for not challenging the state.

Good grief ProtoplasmicTraveler!!! You are describing GFW Hegel's dictum..."the state is god." Do you realize this?? This is not separation of church and state..but the state becoming a church ..and you are back to Rome again?? Or Islam. They simply use the state and the power of the state to hide their religion...politics/power.

Is this not one of the problems with Islamic natons..no separation.

Oh..by the way...I don't agree with conditions here in the USA where people can deduct their tithing and giving to the church on their taxes. This is not separation. It is a tax subsidy..a price support on the part of the state with the silent agreement of the Churches. This is not separation of church and state. It is a mockery of Separation of Church and state and going on right under our noses. Church and state are in bed together.
Churches should never have a tax number or another word for it is a state corporation number. They should be independent of the state.
This is a farce going on here.. a counterfeit...Occult...hidden from the view..concealed from most peoples...and no matter what the religion...they should be separate.

You have a problem ProtoplasmicTraveler..in that Humanism..also a religion ..does not seem to be able to solve these problems as well. It too falls way short. All our education..higher learning..etc ..does not seem to be able to solve these problems or history.

I for one do not believe in the Humanism concept of peace. I think it is a counterfeit...world peace. It is Occult in its teachings and beliefs.

Islam itself teaches this Peace be unto you. Yet history shows another example under Islam unto this day.
Obviously there was a huge gulf between the peaceful religion and what the Army was requiring of this individual at Fort Hood.

Well..good luck in this ProtoplasmicTraveler. Oh ..by the way..I too admire the Amish as well..for their independence and backbone in separating from the world and its high speed fast food lane ways.

Thanks,
Orangetom