Flight 188 No one was fighting; there was no argument. "I shouldn't talk to you anymore"

another puzzling fact.

according to FlightAware, a company that provides real-time tracking of airplanes based on Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) radar data. It showed that the plane flew northeast at a constant altitude from 7:13 to 7:53 p.m., making one 19-degree turn in that period.

if they were distracted or asleep why did the plane deviate from it's course?

I apologize for not being familiar in detail with this case. Based on the posts here, I'm unable to see why the more salacious form of 'distracted' (e.g. they were having sex or something??) is not a possibility? (With each other or attendants.) Is there a summary of this overall incident somewhere I could get a link to?

Best,
PJ

Here's my take on this.

They were on a mission: Mission was aborted for some reason.

Something went wrong alright, and they havent been able to come up with an explanation ...yet...not one that makes sense.

I can tell you as a Stewardess for Delta some years ago, that the radio in the cockpit is constantly blasting either white noise or traffic directives from the Air traffic controllers and other airplanes. Many attemps (so they say) were made by the ATC's to contact the airplane.
The people knew they were suppose to land some time ago....so did the staff....
You're not going to tell me nobody checked in the cockpit?????

This all smells of Black ops.

Originally posted by Stevo_Devo
It showed that the plane flew northeast at a constant altitude from 7:13 to 7:53 p.m., making one 19-degree turn in that period.

if they were distracted or asleep why did the plane deviate from it's course?

An aircraft's auto pilot controls altitude and heading. Since the Earth is round, keeping a constant altitude requires very small adjustments over the entire flight. Since the Earth rotates toward the East, and since they are flying Northeast, that means the jet has to make heading adjustments in order to keep them pointed in the correct direction. The Earth is rotating below them and their destination is changing locations.

Seriously, there is nothing to see here. This happens all the time with private pilots, it's just rare with commercial pilots, so they make a big deal about it.

Those jets are traveling around 500 mph, so going 150 miles off course could happen in 18 minutes. It's really no big deal.


[edit on 25-10-2009 by ALLis0NE]

Like many people I have been on dozens of flights, in the most recent years say the past 10, they had the little tvs in the seat in front of you, I cant remember a time (when on aircraft with them fitted) when with an hour or less before landing, that a lot of passengers did not tune the tvs into the GPS channel, you know the one which gives you all the info? speed, altitude, ETA, position.

Does anyone know if this flight had such a system? because if it did, I promise you a lot of passengers would have noticed there was some kind of problem, and most would have asked, the stewards would have wondered also when passengers asked, and would have asked the cockpit, if it did have a system like this, then why did nobody become aware of the delay, also many people have connecting flights to catch, some with very small stop overs, clock watching with a short stop over is very common.

Did nobody on board have a connection to catch? family waiting? appointments to keep, the truth here will be found through the passengers.

I agree something is amiss here, the delays in fighter scramble, the loss of contact with no other planes reporting the flight in sight? I want to know what went on up there.

Originally posted by svpwizard
You know this is a very good point.... 100+ people on the plane, flight crew and the pilots ..... no one wondered why they were LATE!!!

My very first thought was they experienced missing time. My very next thought was the above: nobody noticed they were late? I mean, why didn't a flight attendant ask what was going on; why didn't a passenger complain; why didn't somebody bring it to the pilots' attention that they had missed their destination?

Very, very strange.

Originally posted by RedCairo
(e.g. they were having sex or something??) is not a possibility? (With each other or attendants.) Is there a summary of this overall incident somewhere I could get a link to?

Best,
PJ

Sadly, I was thinking the same thing... I think there was an unsubstantiated rumor (maybe it was substantiated), but the flight attendant was banging on the door trying to get the pilots attention...

So, that rules the flight attendant out...

Pilots wanna get in the 'Mile High' club too I guess...

Originally posted by ALLis0NE

Originally posted by Stevo_Devo

Those jets are traveling around 500 mph, so going 150 miles off course could happen in 18 minutes. It's really no big deal.

As I understand, they didn't really go off course, they over shot their destination...

I guess it depends on how long the flight was and how much fuel was left.

Running out of fuel on the side of the road is one thing. Running out at 1000 feet is another... Just the RISK of running out makes it a big deal I think. Unlike private pilots, commercial pilots are responsible for the lives of hundreds of passengers.

Altitude, number of passengers, weight of cargo, turbulence, are just some of the factors that can effect fuel mileage when flying.

Apparently, the control tower couldn't get a response, other airline pilots couldn't get a response. I heard it was a stewardess banging on the door that finally got a response from the pilots...

Also, a pilot & co-pilot not responding to calls & 'off course' is definitely a big deal. Terrorist Attack comes to mind.

I'm almost surprised they didn't have a 'escort' at one point...

[edit on 25-10-2009 by ByteChanger]

Originally posted by ALLis0NE

Those jets are traveling around 500 mph, so going 150 miles off course could happen in 18 minutes. It's really no big deal.


[edit on 25-10-2009 by ALLis0NE]

While it is true that the jet could have covered this distance in a short period of time the fact remains that the aircraft was out of communication for an extended period of time. So it is not just the fact that most of the passengers were unaware of being late or flying past their destination coupled with the pilots comments that makes this weird. There is also the fact that they ignored communications for 78 minutes.

There were 78 minutes of radio silence. Air traffic controllers re-established radio contact after the plane had flown about 150 miles past its destination.

The lead flight attendant told officers she was unaware there had been an incident aboard, the report said.

After repeatedly saying he couldn't talk about the case, Cole said that contrary to media reports, "Nobody was asleep in the cockpit. No arguments took place. "But other than that, I cannot tell you anything that went on because we're having hearings this weekend, we're having hearings on Tuesday. All that information will come out then."

Source of external quotes


The co-pilots statement above really gets me. This is almost like somebody is making up a story for them to tell.

reply to post by dgtempe

I can tell you as a Stewardess for Delta some years ago, that the radio in the cockpit is constantly blasting either white noise or traffic directives...

Sorry, I can tell you as a pilot for over 30 years that your impression of just HOW much chatter is on the radios is somewhat exagerrated. And, "white noise"? Nope...not unless you're referring to the HF radios, used for communications when out of range of normal VHF -- such as overwater Intern'l flights. And THEN we don't have to listen to the static the entire time...only when making position reports, or requesting clearances. That is why they invented the SELCAL system...they 'page' you when they need to talk to you...

SELCAL should have been used here...but it seems, from what I've read, Dispatch was sending ACARS messages, which are more subtle than SELCAL. ACARS 'dings' once...SELCAL is a constant chime, until you answer it.

In any event, the guys were asleep. (OR...since this IS the Aliens Forum...they were abdsucted, beamed out and anally probed, then returned, with no knowledge of the 'missing time' because their memories were altered....)

The people knew they were suppose to land some time ago....so did the staff....

You say you were a Flight Attendant ( BTW, 'Stewardess' is sexist and very outdated...how many years ago, did you say??? ) and you know how, after the service is over, you sit and read a magazine, or chat in the galley, and lose track of time...UNLESS you're a commuter, and it's the end of a trip pairing in MSP, and you need to catch your flight home!

You're not going to tell me nobody checked in the cockpit?????

Ya know how it is, Cabin and Flight Deck crews either may, or may not get along well...PLUS with different Union contracts they may be on entirely different trip sequences...not teamed together for the whole two-to-four day trip (or whatever), so no 'bonding' occurs.

AND, since the airplane only went about 150 past destination, that's roughly 20 minutes....and cabin crews regularly see that, even IF there is no mention of it from the cockpit.

True story....co-incidentally the fuel load for a Los Angeles/Honolulu flight and an LAX/NYC flight are close to the same. Years ago, two American Airlines DC-10s parked next to each other, in LAX. Three pilots get on the WRONG airplane, don't notice the ship number, aren't paying attention. Fuel looks right, so no worries...well, couple of hours after take-off, F/As finally notice the Nav screens in the cabin...and call up to the 'pit. (Remember, these people just met that morning for the first time...)

They ask the pilots the ETA for New York. Pilots laugh, thinking it's a joke, "We're going to Honolulu." F/As say, "Well, you got 250 people back here who wanted to go to New York." Too late to turn around, they continue to HNL.....

...."stuff" happens in the business, sometimes. Very embarassing stuff...so, for their sakes, I HOPE those two Northwest guys were abducted by aliens!!!

(I feel for them...they're just about my age...)

Why is it that anything, and I mean anything that happens in the news you will find folks on here that want to attribute it to aliens? That kind of dough-eye ignorance is not only absurd, it it the type of ignorance than contributes to everyone laughing at us when it is time to get serious.

This event has nothing to do with aliens, ufos, witches, demons, or anything other than human error and confusion. If you think pilots are perfect...well then you don't know many of them and sure as hell haven't ridden cross country in a car several times with them, lol.

reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts


Actually, reading through this thread, I can't find anyone who has actually made any connection between this incident and aliens - which perhaps begs the question... "Why is this in the UFOs and Aliens" forum?"

It is a mystifying incident, made more so by the apparent illogical way that it has been portrayed in the media.

I find it simply unfathomable that a plane load of people would fail to alert the pilots that they had overflown their destination. As I stated in a previous post, when I fly I am always very aware and expectant of the begin of descent which happens about 20 minutes before arrival. I'm sure the whole planeload and crew were not asleep.

This is more than strange. It almost seems impossible. If you have a flight with lots of passengers, they will react when their expected time of arrival has been exceeded. They may ask a flight attendant whats going on. They will in turn contact the pilots.

Are we supposed to believe that no passengers said anything and no flight attendants tried to talk to the pilots for a hour?



[edit on 25-10-2009 by Copernicus]

reply to post by Copernicus

Are we supposed to believe that no passengers said anything...

Sometimes, depends on how late it's getting. As noted, they were, after passing MSP, at that point barely about 20 minutes late...and that's the lLANDING time, not gate arrival time, because there's pad built in for taxi after landing.

Also, some passengers are just meek. Flight Attendants sometimes finish the 'service' (meaning they're done throwing the Cokes and pretzels) then hide behind the galley curtains for the rest of the flight. Sometimes they have an "unapproachable" attitude towards the customers...anyone who flies a lot will notice this...

...and no flight attendants tried to talk to the pilots for a hour?

Often, often on some flights...YES! There can be built-in animosity between the two sides of that cockpit door. Warranted or not....

I have gone for HOURS without so much as ONE call, to inquire whether we were thirsty or hungry. Either they don't pay attention, or each thinks the other is doing it...

On a long International flight (over eight hours) I timed it...FOUR HOURS before we got the first call from the back, asking us if we wanted anything...and HEAVEN help you if you call them, and interrupt!!! Unless you want Visine in your coffee!!!

reply to post by nonnez


I was a flight attendant a few years ago, and we were taught in training to NEVER discuss anything with the media without direct consent of the airline, so I think that is probably why he refuses to talk. They really hammered that point into our heads and I'm sure the pilots are told the same thing in training. It's was even in our flight manuals.

HOWEVER, I do wonder what was going on up there because there is almost constant noise in the cockpit. I've flown up there several times and it isn't a quite place. But, I have heard stories of both pilots falling asleep while flying. One FO fell asleep while he was flying with a rather grouchy captain and when he woke up, he knew he was really going to catch it from the guy, but he looked over at the captain and he was snoozing away too. So, it happens. If the pilots are telling the truth though and they really weren't sleeping and not arguing, I really don't know what to think.

Passengers ask the flight attendants questions about EVERYTHING so I have to imagine that they would have really been asking about being so late. It really doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but stranger things have happened, I suppose. It's just an odd situation. I think what happened was probably something completely logical, but it really does make the imagination run a little wild, lol.

Just wanted to post the link to the Seattle Times article. Has some good info and detail.

seattletimes.nwsource.com...

Originally posted by bluestreak53
reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts

 

Actually, reading through this thread, I can't find anyone who has actually made any connection between this incident and aliens - which perhaps begs the question... "Why is this in the UFOs and Aliens" forum?"

I do agree, this thread should be moved. Someone earlier had mentioned "Skunk Works"? When I started this thread I had been talking to a friend about it and he had mentioned the ET possibility, but I personally am not saying that this is what this was. I am simply saying that something very strange is happening here. The co-pilot is either lying or information being given to the media is false according to him.

reply to post by Julie Washington


Thanks. A good article, but I am most curious what was happening on the passenger side of the plane - lets assume a scenario where the pilots cabin crew were both asleep - which seems the most likely conventional explanation. I haven't read any accounts of what the passengers are saying about what happened. You would think this would be a big story as many passengers would be worried about the plane running out of fuel and angry that they didn't arrive at their destination on time without a proper explanation from the airline.

The only possibility I can think is that many passengers asked the flight attendants about the reason for the delay but the flight attendants just assumed that everything was okay because they were not informed otherwise by the cabin crew. So they reassured the passengers that everything was okay.

Still, I have to wonder - wouldn't the flight crew have become suspicious well before the scheduled arrrival time? I mean everytime I fly, passengers are told by the crew that the flight is beginning its descent and you can tell the plane is descending by a number of cues (such as changing pressure on your ears).

What mystifies me most of all, is not exactly what happened on board the Plane, but what happened everywhere else, 88 mins of no contact? and after 911, even on 911, the Air force had been alerted to a Plane not answering it's calls, and a lot earlier than 88 mins.

Being asleep or distracted is not the point not the whole point, why was there not a bigger response from the ground? from what I can find out, fighters where scrambled, but did not leave the ground? doesn't that sound strange to anyone else? also Planes fly along the same flight paths, how come no other aircraft where asked to look for them? I know at certain altitudes there is no need for most lights, but there has to be some.

This does sound to me, and call me nuts if you want to, but it sounds to me like somebody on the ground was aware of something going on, hence the delay in the scramble, and with them not leaving the ground if that is right, it sounds like it's cosmetic, like trying to prove their was intent to intercept, I cant for one second believe they left it so long before any action was taken.

Either after 8 years of new scripted security alert procedures, the system fell apart when called upon, or someone knew what was happening up there, especially with the first loss of contact being near Denver, the supposed new home for the Government agencies.

It annoys me to think we wont get to hear the true story of this, if this wasn't the fault of the pilots, they are sure going to take the blame for it, and even though nobody has come out directly and said it, a lot of us are thinking it, was their a part played here by ET?

There I said it, most likely not related at all, but without anything coming from any official source, even those investigating it would expect all kinds of speculation, weird or not, Paranormal, or just plain off the Planet conspiracy, by now the Voice recorders have been listened too, passengers interviewed, as well as the staff and Pilots, so why the silence? is Obama going to be forced into disclosure whether he likes it or not? perhaps time is up, and ET is demanding it for the sake of everyone, and they are showing those fighting against it, that they cant stop it.

Someone had to say it.

reply to post by nonnez


The thread could also be moved to "breaking alternative news" perhaps?

I agree that we can't expect the pilots or crew to provide answers on this but we should perhaps get a better explanation from the airline - although it might be in their best interests to wait until they have all the facts and have completed their own investigation.

But the passengers have no such barriers in communicating what happened from their perspective. So why is there no apparent effort by the media to delve into this story from that angle? It certainly is not because the story is uninteresting and of no public interest.

Just trying to review this from the little info we have to this point from what the co-pilot says.

1) The crew was not asleep
2) The crew was not in a heated arguement
3) The passengers were never in danger

My best hypothesis to explain is:
- radio equipment failure, and
- plane was in autopilot and crew was unable to take plane out of autopilot.

Of course the both of these "mechanical failures" could put passengers lives at risk but perhaps the airline doesn't want anyone to know the passengers were in potential danger.

It is possible the pilot was lying, but I think it is more likely the pilot would simply not say anything rather than lie.