Flight 188 No one was fighting; there was no argument. "I shouldn't talk to you anymore"

We weren’t asleep, pilot says

Richard Cole lives in Salem with his wife and two daughters. He spoke to KATU while pulling his luggage out of his car after returning home. He said he can’t talk about the incident but, “I’ll tell you this, neither of us was asleep.” Later he said that “I feel terrible. No one was fighting; there was no argument; there was no disharmony; no one was sleeping. We were just distracted."

Cole said the entire episode has been a "nightmare" that he worries could spell an end to his career as an airline pilot. "I shouldn't talk to you anymore," he said. "I may lose my job over this."

[edit on 24-10-2009 by nonnez]

[edit on 24-10-2009 by nonnez]

I realize that the main original story was posted already, but I do not believe this new interview from my local news has been yet.

What was going on up there? Did they see something that had their attention. Is this just a cover up for them sleeping? Something seems strange here and I am not saying it was a UFO or the like, but is it possible that this is what he is eluding to?



This whole story is just plain weird.

[edit on 24-10-2009 by nonnez]

reply to post by nonnez


"I shouldn't talk to you anymore"

Of course he shouldn't. There is an ongoing investigation. Anything he may say at this point could possibly come back and bite him in the rear. I think it's a perfectly reasonable statement.

Are you possibly considering the angle of a "Lost Time" scenario if that's the case then there would be plenty of people on board to investigate and see if they have felt the "Lost Time" experiences not just the pilots.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by nonnez

 

Are you possibly considering the angle of a "Lost Time" scenario if that's the case then there would be plenty of people on board to investigate and see if they have felt the "Lost Time" experiences not just the pilots.

Yes I had thought about that. I am not saying that I necessarily believe in that, but the phenomenon has been reported many times by a wide range of people. I just think by the words from his mouth and the look on his face during the interview that something very strange was going on up there.

to many things just do not make sense in this story.

First they say they were arguing then they say both were asleep.

Ok then, this is what the "Black Box" is for, once they play the tapes we will know the truth.

unless the tapes were damaged or lost

lots of loose ends in this story. I can't wait how they will spin this.

reply to post by Stevo_Devo

Ok then, this is what the "Black Box" is for, once they play the tapes we will know the truth.

People, the recorders are not magic.

As i've said, the Cockpit Voice Recorder only keeps about the last 30 minutes...it is a tape, endless-loop type. NEWER CVRs are digital...but, still, Unions are fighting against them recording any more than the last 30 minutes.

With modern technology it is possible that, due to sometimes incomplete erasure of the tracks before they run over the recording heads again, that some of the older analog data from previous passes may be retrievable.

However....if that happens, and there are nuggets to glean, don't expect any transcripts made public. It will be used solely in the investigations by the employer and the FAA for any punitive punishments to come.

Transcripts are released after accident/incident investigations...this is going to be something the Airline will want to blow over quickly, as it's bad publicity.

Losing situational awareness is common...although, that doesn't explain it properly...being involved in a conversation where you are so engrossed that you lose track of elapsed time has happened to all of us, I think.

But, several things pop out at me, here...they were NOT monitorng the Emergency Frequency on the #2 radio (Not mandatory, unless it is a Company Policy...but a good idea, nowadays).

A modern airplane like the Airbus has besides lateral navigation, a vertical navigation capability, IF programmed. Usually, all the flight plan data, along with the vertical Nav Planning is done at the gate before departure. However, the airplane's autopilot won't descend, per the computer flight plan, unless you allow it to...it WILL annunciate, though...silently, just visual cues. Any pilot worth his/her salt should havenoticed at least ONE of those cues, even if engaged in discussion.

Also, one news report said that the Dispatcher send EIGHT messages, via what's known as ACARS...it's like a text message. Usually, accompanied by a chime, and a visual annunciation too.

Some reports said the F/As called, on the interphone, to ask if they'd be landing soon...others said that other nearby airplanes were given the last known frequency and asked to call them...

That's how it works, as you fly along and miss a frequency change...usually after a few minutes you realize you're out of touch, and it's a simple matter to find the correct frequency...IF you are awake, that is!

reply to post by weedwhacker




I don't think anyone here on this thread referred to the "Cockpit Voice Recorder" as magic but I see your point.

This may be obvious but shouldn't the CVR run and record the entire flight and then be erased.

At this point I would go for the "The plane was abducted by Aliens, went through a wormhole and we ended up riiiiiight over here" defense.
Unless, of course, that is exactly what happened and they are covering it up.

Oh, and next time bring an egg timer!







[edit on 24-10-2009 by tungus]

reply to post by Stevo_Devo


NO.

The entire concept of the CVR was to assist in crash investigations, especially IF the pilots didn't survive.

There was a lot of resistance by pilot's Unions because of the potential for abuse. The 30-minute limit was agreed upon as a compromise, since that should be sufficient to help determine a crash reason. (Of course, the CVR stops as soon as the crash happens, since it requires normal electrical power). For example, look up Swiss Air 111 --- suffered an inflight fire, and the electrical system failed a few minutes BEFORE impact...maybe a slight blessing.

Lately, the NTSB has recommended to the FAA to change the requlation to a TWO-hour recording capacity...and that's possible with the newer digital units, but pilot's groups are again resisting this. The NTSB has no regulatory ability, just recommendations.....

In any event, all CVRs have a 'bulk erase' feature that a pilot may exercise, say at the end of any particular flight...so that's an idea to prevent random 'spying'...

We already have, on almost all modern airplanes, another recording device, in addition to the SSFDR and CVR, or SSCVR. THIS records to a CD/READ-WRITE disc, and is used by various airlines to compile incident information where any excursions occur, such as over-speeds involving flap limits, etc...

This data, per Union contract agreements, is 'allegedly' de-identified. IF a gross violation occurs, then the Union is bought in to counsel the pilot(s) as appropriate. This is kept in-house, for the most part --- but trends seen that may show a problem with checklist procedures, or other SOPs may be shared with other airline companies to see if THEY have similar problems.

(Cases of over-speed excursions and such result in increased maintenance costs, once noted...so the companies frown heavily on it...) Besides, it is just poor airmanship.


Also, the ACTUAL recordings are never to be released publicly...again, to protect those involved. Transcripts, of course, are another compromise.

reply to post by tungus


well the pilot said "We were just distracted"

Distracted by what?

I'm searching for passenger accounts of what happened but no luck so far.

Oh, wait a doggone minute! I just noticed what Forum this thread is in!!!!

Well, guess there's no more need for my input here...

reply to post by Stevo_Devo


Let's say that the pilots were "distracted." I've read in the paper that they were in a heated discussion about company policy. Oh, really. I think that they were distracted by their rapid eye movement, and the only thing on that CVR is a two-tone snoring sound, if you ask me.
But whatever the reason, the question is, was everyone in the plane snoozing or arguing, pilots, crew and passengers so everyone of 100+ people was too busy to look at their watch?
And no jets were scrambled for a plane cruising for an hour?
Did ATC see them on their radar, even though could not talk to them?
I don't know, something is not right. That's why I'm going with the alien abduction theory.

[edit on 24-10-2009 by tungus]

Originally posted by nonnez...is it possible that this is what he is eluding to?

That's "alluding." Eluding is what you do when you're trying to avoid capture by the police.

reply to post by weedwhacker


Thread?




what type of website do you think ATS is?

Originally posted by flightsuit

Originally posted by nonnez...is it possible that this is what he is eluding to?

That's "alluding." Eluding is what you do when you're trying to avoid capture by the police.

Oh gee thanks for that. Here take a look at this:

Elude

You aint not a stupid atleast I reckon.

Originally posted by tungus
reply to post by Stevo_Devo

 

But whatever the reason, the question is, was everyone in the plane snoozing or arguing, pilots, crew and passengers so everyone of 100+ people was too busy to look at their watch?

[edit on 24-10-2009 by tungus]

That's kinda where I was going in a way, at least as far as nobody seemed to be aware of being late to arrive at their destination. The passengers were unaware of any problems? .........really???

oh and flightsuit can you please check my post for error on word use again please as I am sure that you were only trying to help and it had nothing to do with discrediting a post.

Originally posted by nonnez

Originally posted by tungus
reply to post by Stevo_Devo

 

But whatever the reason, the question is, was everyone in the plane snoozing or arguing, pilots, crew and passengers so everyone of 100+ people was too busy to look at their watch?

[edit on 24-10-2009 by tungus]

That's kinda where I was going in a way, at least as far as nobody seemed to be aware of being late to arrive at their destination. The passengers were unaware of any problems? .........really???

oh and flightsuit can you please check my post for error on word use again please as I am sure that you were only trying to help and it had nothing to do with discrediting a post.

You know this is a very good point.... 100+ people on the plane, flight crew and the pilots ..... no one wondered why they were LATE!!!

Originally posted by nonnez

That's kinda where I was going in a way, at least as far as nobody seemed to be aware of being late to arrive at their destination. The passengers were unaware of any problems? .........really???

oh and flightsuit can you please check my post for error on word use again please as I am sure that you were only trying to help and it had nothing to do with discrediting a post.

This is exactly the reason why I think something is very, very wierd about this. And why is it that noone in the press is asking these questions to the passengers??

I know if I was on a plane, I would be expecting the plane to begin its descent about - what is it 20 minutes? - before scheduled arrival. I would be bugging the flight attendents if we didn't arrive on time unless the captain broadcast a reason for the delay.

(I think I know the answer why the press is not asking questions of the passengers. The press has been told this is an issue of national security and are therefore colluding with the government in building up a cover story. I would be very interested if we hear anything about any of the passengers. That is, assuming all the passengers arrived at their destination.)

Okay, perhaps that sounds paranoid - but I will wait and see if the press follows up on this story or if it just dies.

Does anyone remember that old movie about the people from the future who kidnap passengers from planes in the past before the plane crashes and place substitute bodies on the plane while it is still in the air? This incident has a similar "twilight zone" ring to it.

In my opinion, this is a much bigger story than "balloon boy".

I have no interest in discrediting a post. It would be paranoid thinking to suppose otherwise. I simply can not stand seeing people on the Internet destroy the English language.

Originally posted by svpwizard
You know this is a very good point.... 100+ people on the plane, flight crew and the pilots ..... no one wondered why they were LATE!!!

This is a false statement. You should do a little more research..

On CNN they interviewed one of the passengers and he was fully aware that something was wrong. He knew what time they were supposed to land, and when he looked out the window around that time, he noticed they were still very high in the sky, and was wondering why they weren't lower so that he could see buildings and they city, ready to land.

Also, the "black boxes" only record 30 minutes, and they were 1 hour off course, so there is probably no record of their "heated discussion".

I very well doubt there was any aliens or UFO's involved, and I think this topic should be moved to skunk works.