If you can imagine it, it exists.

reply to post by The Parallelogram




Thats very simple to answer and am surprised that no one on ATS has actully mentioned the fact that..... There is a major flaw in your thinking.

Its almost impossible for you to imagine a universe being destroyed as u have no idea how or what a universe actually looks like when being destroyed, blimey... we dont even know what the universe is yet so how u could imagine it being destroyed is a major no no!! so.....

Anything u think of does actually exist..... but not in the same way as some people on here would lead u to believe.. the existence of the thoughts are alive and well in your MINDS EYE the holographic image in your head... That is the extent of thier existence... and that is as valid existance as someting physical....

It only takes a small amount of logical thinking to come to this conclusion.. think about it!!


Forgot to mention your black box devise..... same applies as stated earlier.... you have no idea what a device would need to be in order to destroy a universe.. so how can u actaully imagine one??

IF U CAN IMAGINE IT, IT EXIST'S...... IT EXIST IN YOUR MINDS EYE

[edit on 23-10-2009 by uk alienhunter]

Well to be honest "Your perception is your reality". I too am very interested in this type of theories along with quantum mechanics and physics, phycology etc. Has anyone heard of the Universal Principles? You should take a look. It talks of the Seven Universal Principles. You can find it on the web from a google search engine. It is a book based on the Hermetic teaching. Hermes the greek god of astronomy, arts, philosophy etc. Hermes was also the messenger of the gods. These are strongly related to my beliefs ever since i started questioning things.

Just a little background. The book was named the Kybalion written by the Three Iniates. Never gave full or credence to an author.

Well the point is the first Universal Principle is "All is Mind". Basically meaning whatever you can imagine does exist in some form. Along with the other Universal Principles these are just the laws of everything and i mean everything that is in the universe. Now what is bigger than the universe? Nothing! Just because what you see and hear does not make that a reality. That make it your reality.

Thought experiment. If i you said the sky was blue, and just for (debating) sake my eyes and mind honestly thought the sky looked red. Could you tell me im wrong. No! Because you have not seen it through my eyes.

Also just to give you guys more food for thought. Have you heard the Holographic Principle. It was mathematically proven and there is alot of research being done on it. It basically says that we are nothing but a mere holograph. If you want more info look up Leonard Susskind. He wrote the book the "The Black Hole War". I recommend everyone taking a look. Even if your into quantum mechanics or physics or science of any kind. This is by far the best, and best explained in depth book i have ever read. gives you a very firm grounding in the sciences to.

Sorry for writing a book

Originally posted by kinda kurious

I also imagine that me and Soledad O'Brien from CNN are involved in an extra-marital affair since we both enjoy "dress-up" during romantic encounters wearing only stilts and oven mitts. (Sorry to be kinky, but the oven mitts must be left handed and always point west.)

You disgust me!! The oven mitt should always point to the East!

PERVERT!!

Thoughts create matter, so thoughts matter.

Matter comes from nothing/infinity.


Just because you imagined something to exist seem to far fetched, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It could exist in another universe. In fact it could very well exist, but not from your reality perspective. The human mind is very complex(because of this illuminati built society) We tend to put limitations on every thing we do or create on a subconscious level. We are not aware of who we are. This is exactly the conflicting issue is with the mind. The imagination goes beyond the mind.

You never know, a being who is fully conscious and living as you are in hisher own reality at the other end of the universe/dimension/multiverse, could find imagining this world to be way too weird and far fetched to think it is real. He is basing his own reality and consciousness on your reality. He hasn't experienced your reality. So it's going to create a confliction of matter. Awareness simply allows you to bring that reality into your own if that is what you want to bring into your consciousness. It's because the lack of thought applied to this matter of reality, makes it seem unrealistic to you at the moment of thought.

"unrealisitic", means you see it as not real., just because the lack of realism is present in your mind, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


Everything you imagine is real, if it's energy. The opening poster is very correct on his findings.

Infinity is everything. We tend to base reality as physical or what we experience. That is not the case, your reality is what your aware of.This means your conscious about something in the present. Your focusing on this moment. Most of us are not aware or fully conscious beings.

But this is soon happening. This is waking up. Not "oh I'm waking up to whats out there". Waking up is realsing you are everything that exist's.



[edit on 23-10-2009 by Mind1universe]

Originally posted by RedDragon
You'd be right if everything was random. However, EVERYTHING would have to be random. If there is just one thing in the universe that's not random, then you're wrong.

There are things that aren't random such as relativity physics. Matter not on the quantum scale behaves predictably. Unpredictable matter on the quantum scale is bound by larger predicable systems therefor it is guided by predictable systems into unpredictable paths. This means that while the paths are random, they're constrained even as time approaches infinity.

This may be hard to understand for people with lower IQs because it's pretty abstract.

But imagine an X-Y plane. Now, draw 2 horizontal lines at y=2 and y=-2. Consider them to be infinitely powerful forces. Now, imagine a particle in between the two horizontal lines that moves in a random path for an infinite amount of time. Over this infinite time interval, it will touch every point between y=2 and y=-2. However, because y=2 and y=-2 are infinitely powerful forces, it can never go past them. Thus, even as time approaches infinity, the particle will never touch any points beyond them such as any points @ y=3.

Laws of physics can't be broken. Since matter on a large scale is predictable, it's governed by non-random laws of physics. This is similar to the constraints that were y=2 and y=-2. Thus, there are events that are constrained to these laws.

So, it's impossible for everything to happen. What you're saying isn't possible.

Just quoting this because it got little attention and the thread went on pages after it. It's a logical proof that what the OP says is impossible.. No debate really needed.

Originally posted by Irishwolf
But wouldn't this also raise the question of nothingness and the fact that I can imagine every event not happening.

How does that fit into your theory. Has and will everything and nothing and the opposite happen. Seems kind of pointless if you ask me. Like the shrodingers cat thing. The particles both exist for both situations but only one of them happens when it is observed. Its a good theory but not very practical.

If I imagine that something never has existed and never will and someone else imagines that the same thing does exist what happens then? Does the universe just implode or something?

*************************************

You bring up the corollary argument to the original post, and it is an important aspect and feature to the theory. Doubt is as powerful as belief. For every clear and positive impulse, the mind has the tendency to belabor the point. In the time between conception and fruition of an idea, if one is not strong enough mentally to ward off self-doubt, enough of a barrier to your wishes exists to allow "nothingness" to become the likely outcome.

This is where the adage "If you only believe..." hits home. Practice zazen to strengthen your mind against self-doubt and worry, if you wish to test this theory that everything you think of can become a reality, because with average mental faculties, the chances for success are woeful.

Reading this, I came to wonder, as my enigmatic mental capacity suggested as an image, of a giant galaxy eating mass of darkness. Non-visible, however, it devours the galaxies and grows from it. Can that still be considered plausible? If it was, would it not signify we'd notice something of that sort? Yes, our universe is dubbed "infinite", however, if it's expanding continuously how could it be? Anywho, the concept of this theory seems correct, but, it just has me iffy on the whole thing.

“The universe is the outcome of imagination. Then why try to acquire knowledge of the imaginative universe instead of plumbing the depths of your real Self?”

[Meher Baba Journal, June 1941]

It´s true. My love is the best proove ever. His name, his past... well...everything about him, I have imagine in my young years.
Oh and it lasted years to come true, but it happened. That can't be a coincidence!

Agreed,If you think hard enough sometimes distant,unreal thoughts become reality.

you have the mentally ill at insane institutions and they see reality a whole different way because they believe that's how reality is. if you believe hard enough then to you it exists. there are some people out there that can do incredible, unexplainable things like change the temp of their body and how much they way in less than a minute. we're raised to believe that our breain controls our body but that's not true: WE control our body. there's a difference. if you get a papercut, your brain tells you it hurts. you can stop feeling the pain by not thinking about it. the reason we can't do AMAZING things like walk on water is because our sixth sense is locked. if scientist admit there's multiple dimensions and our spirit/ energy is connected with not only another dimension but also everything around us, then it's most likely true. then again, ignorance is bliss.

cool, i have thought of that exact same thing more than once. S+F

reply to post by genma


I agree.. our comprehension of reality is narrow.. all we can ever fathom is our own processes. We probably could never imagine what is true outside our experiences.

Originally posted by WanderingParadox
Reading this, I came to wonder, as my enigmatic mental capacity suggested as an image, of a giant galaxy eating mass of darkness. Non-visible, however, it devours the galaxies and grows from it. Can that still be considered plausible? If it was, would it not signify we'd notice something of that sort? Yes, our universe is dubbed "infinite", however, if it's expanding continuously how could it be? Anywho, the concept of this theory seems correct, but, it just has me iffy on the whole thing.

I dont believe our universe to infinite in any size scale. . . If its expanding then obviously its not infinatly large and physics have found that there seems to be a limit to how small a measurement of the universe can be. At a certain point spacetime becomes grainy. These grains represent the smallest bit of spacetime

This smallest limit (which isn't conclusive yet) was found by Craig Hogan and the Geo 600 experiment. I cant find the article right now but will keep looking and post it when i find it.

The original post in this thread exposes an absolute truth.

All it needs is a common factor, to avoid the endless scenarios that are all as valid as any other.

That factor comes from a quote by Dr. James Burke (of "Connections" fame. A most incredible television science series.)

On one of his programs, over 10 years ago, he made the most profound statement:

"The world is the way it is , because if it was not, you would not be here to contemplate or observe it. "

Roll this beauty of verse around in your head a few times.

It implies that anything not observed, or 'contemplated' does not really exist, and anything contemplated can, and does exist once we observe it. We therefore, create our own reality by merely existing in this time and space. Everything is a possibility.

CharlyV

Originally posted by charlyv
The original post in this thread exposes an absolute truth.

All it needs is a common factor, to avoid the endless scenarios that are all as valid as any other.

That factor comes from a quote by Dr. James Burke (of "Connections" fame. A most incredible television science series.)

On one of his programs, over 10 years ago, he made the most profound statement:

"The world is the way it is , because if it was not, you would not be here to contemplate or observe it. "

Roll this beauty of verse around in your head a few times.

It implies that anything not observed, or 'contemplated' does not really exist, and anything contemplated can, and does exist once we observe it. We therefore, create our own reality by merely existing in this time and space. Everything is a possibility.

CharlyV

its called anthropic reasoning and it offends my sensibility. I like to think that even without us the universe still exsists. . . it all goes back to that gem of a conundrum the measurement problem

Strong anthropic principle (SAP) (Carter): "the Universe (and hence the fundamental parameters on which it depends) must be such as to admit the creation of observers within it at some stage. To paraphrase Descartes, cogito ergo mundus talis est."

en.wikipedia.org...

The measurement problem in quantum mechanics is the unresolved problem of how (or if) wavefunction collapse occurs. The inability to observe this process directly has given rise to different interpretations of quantum mechanics, and poses a key set of questions that each interpretation must answer. The wavefunction in quantum mechanics evolves according to the Schrödinger equation into a linear superposition of different states, but actual measurements always find the physical system in a definite state. Any future evolution is based on the state the system was discovered to be in when the measurement was made, meaning that the measurement "did something" to the process under examination. Whatever that "something" may be does not appear to be explained by the basic theory.

en.wikipedia.org...

if this is true then in the beginning there was as observer. . . .

[edit on 23-10-2009 by constantwonder]

reply to post by constantwonder


Then , what is a universe, if it cannot be described?

thats the million dollar question isn't it? Tht's what science is all about figuring out and describing what exactly is going on here. . .

why does anything exsist? No one really knows. . . . Why should it be anything and not nothing at all. . . the universe itself is paradoxical in this way

So if all things imagined exist in the 'Verse', and we can imagine the 'Verse' not existing, then how do you reconcile the fact that it does??

Originally posted by uk alienhunter
reply to post by The Parallelogram

 

Anything u think of does actually exist..... but not in the same way as some people on here would lead u to believe.. the existence of the thoughts are alive and well in your MINDS EYE the holographic image in your head... That is the extent of thier existence... and that is as valid existance as someting physical....



[edit on 23-10-2009 by uk alienhunter]

wrong. even if i imagine a twenty-dollar bill with perfect clarity and detail, i still can't spend it.

mental existence and physical existence are two very different things.



And to the OP, and everyone else who's trying to use semantics to argue against my various points in this thread:

you can't state that everything is real if it can be imagined, then turn around and qualify this ridiculousness with the statement "well, you can't imagine [some object or entity]."

You seem to cling to this belief to justify your delusions regarding extraterrestrial life, etc., but can you clearly imagine the millions of years of evolutionary progress needed to create such a species, or the profoundly complex biochemical reactions which sustain them? no. no, you can't. So why is my black box any different?

Your magical fairy-tale alien friends are real because you pretend they're real, but when I come along to piss on your parade, suddenly my imaginings break the rules, and are invalid. There is room in your worldview for an infinity of magical cat-people from space and other such nonsense, but none for any refutation of these beliefs.

You have the minds of children. Delusional, poorly educated children.