If you can imagine it, it exists.

reply to post by sirnex


Those again bring in a understanding of physics and laws that exist in this universe. To apply rules of this universe where an alternative universe could have absolutely no such rules is an argument that is limited to what you know. In a nut shell a universe can exist that has completely different laws and rules that have no true relation to what we understand here. That would be a truth in all probability and is consistent with the OP. (i.e. I have imagined it therefore it can exist.)

I would like to be in a universe where:
1. Government isn't covering up aliens and gladly says and shows that aliens exist.
2. United States has a Independent party president.
3. Time machines are real and time traveling into the future and past is real.
4. Humans aren't as afraid of the human body.
5. Atomic bombs weren't discovered and will never be made.
6. People were less paranoid.
7. No lies and propaganda from the government and media.
8. Everybody practices Feng Shui.
9. Aliens and humans peacefully co-exist.
10. Less greed and corruption.

reply to post by Primordial


to be honest i just wanted to chuck in a quick ad hom - you say you've been hearing about the great potential of the human mind? HAHA well from your reading comprehension skills you haven't tried any of them out

- you waited to die, that disproved the op?

here's a quote from the op

Maybe not on our planet, in our galaxy or even in our universe

see what he's trying to tell you? That as mentioned when time keeps going on forever and things keep happening much like the many monkeys forever banging keys untill they've produced hamlet - everything will happen.

in simple terms think of it like this, you toss a coin three times and every time you get a new patten it you write it down,

HHH
THH
HTH
HHT
TTT
HTT
HTH
HHT

the list doesn't get longer after a certain point, however many times you flip those coins it's never going to change - that's because there is a finite possible patterns it can create. How many times do you think you would have to play to complete my list? less than half an hour and you can be 99.9r % sure that it's complete - now picture a much more complex set of possible variables, maybe DNA - here's an interesting one...

DNA involved in the encoding of protean and the determiner of many if not all of our physical appearence, it's made of a few simple 'letters' these can be encoded in a finite number of ways.... thus it leads to it being true that if there was an infinte amount of life forms useing DNA/RNA then at some point the list would be complete (of course you can always +1 molecule but for say anything with less than 500 chromasones for example) and the universe will contain two people who look exactly alike.

The further and further this goes the more time is required, as we can't even begin to imagine time as anything other than infine (ok, many people regard it as a cycle but still never a repeat only a rhyme) so we have to accept that as it's possible for us to exist now it must be possible again, thus we have to accept that someone who looks exactly like us, thinks like us, eats like us, etc, etc, etc exists somewhere and yes if you want then yes their is a version of you with that extra 4inches, plus one with an extra 3, an extra 3.01, an extra 3.02 - hehe i'm sure they're all as unhappy with their lot as the next guy.

The op isn't saying that you have the power to actuate your existence into whatever you want by mear will alone (although in a way you sorta can, but thats not what the op was talking about) he's mearly pointing out the beauty of infinity and the complexity of being part of a finite system within an infinte system.

reply to post by genma


Yo. I said this in another thread a few months ago and didn't get one star.

Phooey.

HAHA! Someone gave me a star! How sweet.

[edit on 10/23/2009 by TarzanBeta]

reply to post by genma

"if you can imagine it, it exists"

Wow, that's great.

As soon as I saw the title I saw one of the definitions I've been giving people for at least 2 years now.

though nowadays I phrase it
"existence be sensed in mind"

many ways of saying it.
actually I just came up with that phrasing now.
I like to stay as diverse as possible with my actions.


The concept has probably hit hundredth monkey syndrome,
so now people are gathering it from the akashic records instinctively.

Pleasant to see.


I'll throw in some more for you:

true be now experience.
know be past experience.

things "make sense" when you can imagine or mind-sense them.

word meaning be utterance to symbol link.

reply to post by genma


Yep agreed, if you can imagine it, it exists. That is why I propose the Universe is a hologram.

Over thousands of years we have lost our true identities, similarly I suspect thousands of years later we will loose our human identity. We will probably merge with machines, the same way we merged with these biological beings in the past.

Once we realize our consciousness is passed on, we can track down our original selves, through which I'm sure will discover new things. Until then we will be stuck, getting lost and lost as our consciousness is passed on without any records of remembering.

reply to post by NatureBoy

to be honest i just wanted to chuck in a quick ad hom - you say you've been hearing about the great potential of the human mind? HAHA well from your reading comprehension skills you haven't tried any of them out - you waited to die, that disproved the op? here's a quote from the op

Maybe not on our planet, in our galaxy or even in our universe

My reading comprehension is just fine. You missed this part...

"Those ideas and concepts exist somewhere in tangible form."

By his theory my magical inter-dimensional arrow exists. A real, tangible, actual thing, simply because I imagined it does. By his theory it would also have all the properties I gave it. Yet, I am still alive.

DNA involved in the encoding of protean and the determiner of many if not all of our physical appearence, it's made of a few simple 'letters' these can be encoded in a finite number of ways.... thus it leads to it being true that if there was an infinte amount of life forms useing DNA/RNA then at some point the list would be complete (of course you can always +1 molecule but for say anything with less than 500 chromasones for example) and the universe will contain two people who look exactly alike.

This part is irrelevant to the discussion. Though I thought I'd answer because I think I actually saw my twin one day. We both kinda walked past each other and just looked and kept walking. Strange, but proves nothing more than we looked alike.

The op isn't saying that you have the power to actuate your existence into whatever you want by mear will alone (although in a way you sorta can, but thats not what the op was talking about) he's mearly pointing out the beauty of infinity and the complexity of being part of a finite system within an infinte system.

Well, actually that is what was implied. Thus my little experiment.

From the OP...

Right now think of your wildest idea or most outlandish fantasy. Have that mental picture? Good. Now guess what. That concept exists somewhere, somehow in our limitless extra-dimensional multiverse.

If you want to argue over infinity and what exists or may exist in the distant future or not, that's for another discussion. The premise of the OP was that whatever you can imagine exists. If my arrow existed I would be dead.

Try reading the OP before you comment on my comprehension skills,

[edit on 22-10-2009 by Primordial]

reply to post by NatureBoy


As much as i agree with what your saying with the possible options for the flipped 3 coins you forgot to include in your possible outcomes the coin landing on its edge resulting in a heads/tales reading. so it would be

HHH
HHT
HTT
TTT
HH H/T
HT H/T
TT H/T
H H/T H/T
T H/T H/T
H/T H/T H/T

I know its pedantic but just for the sake of some of the naysayers i though it better to be prudent. Nice reasoning by the way star for you.

i am imagining myself as a H2O molecule being obama, carried by an ant somewhere and that aunt is superman with hovering capabiltity complete with gas burning engine, this small ant is looking for a grain of sand somewhere on the planet jupitor to put me down, this grain of sand is jesus, once i am down i will be stuck to a staircase at someones house, i will cause a neutron star to explode when another ant that looks like hello kitty come and fly around me repeatedly for 1 trillion time while having sex with planet nebiru, once the neutron start explode the universe is filled with pinata filled with hersheys cholate and snickers bar the size of galaxies, the ant that carried me on jupitor will eat all the candy and now grow a micron because he's superman complete with cape and underwear, once this ant finish eating wich is within 5 minute from now all the infinite universe combined and we'll be floating in space singing phantom of the opera, and this is in 5 minute, if this doesnt happen in 5 minute nothing exist. hmmmm i don't think this is possible.

[edit on 22-10-2009 by DOADOA]

[edit on 22-10-2009 by DOADOA]

reply to post by Primordial


i think you're being a bit of a flat lander, ok i concur that the op should have said if its possible it exists - as with my you need an egg to smash an egg comment...

however, from a metaphisical view your arrow exists - in a tangable form then yes your arrow could exist, however the inverse of the arrow existing must also exist.... a world which is destoryed is destoryed but also at the same time the other possible thing happens, a world isn't destoryed - we of course only know about this world, your arrow did exist - it did kill you, however you don't live in the world in which it killed you.

yeah you said it killed all possible dimensions and etc but that only matters in a 3d+123 world (123 = line of time), its a little more complex in the 12d+132 (non linier time) but you covered that - we're talking about infinate worlds in which all things exist... thus things can both exist and not exist...

however you are quiet right, you need an egg to break an egg.

reply to post by Primordial


What if the arrow killed and alternate version of yourself. That would still leave you to be skeptical and post. The flaw isnt with the theory but the experiment.

reply to post by DOADOA


The only thing this proves is your inability to grasp what is being discussed here.
Just because you ramble on about random stuff doesnt mean its going to happen in this reality. What you saying as absurd as it sounds might happen but if it did happen the way you described it your brain wouldnt have the relativistic comparison to the brain that made the post to realize that your post had come true. To the brain in that reality it would be business as usual.

I find it curious that there are people trying to disprove something that CANT be disproved. This to me is clear evidence that these people cant comprehend the logic behind this theory.

Originally posted by TiM3LoRd
What if the arrow killed and alternate version of yourself. That would still leave you to be skeptical and post. The flaw isnt with the theory but the experiment

Not to mention the self-imposed limitations as mentioned earlier. This also keeps you from doing "impossible" things in lucid dreams, even though those limits would not otherwise exist in a dream. Subconsciously you feel as though what you are doing should be impossible and so it will manifest in your dream exactly to your expectations. I've dealt with this personally, and it's definitely very limiting.

reply to post by genma


If you can imagine it, it exists has even more implications than the vastness of this universe, for we create with our minds, which is why so many of the nuki's are incarnated here to program the matrix and as agents of chaos, because we are controlled by our fears, and the chaos we visualize is created in this world around us.

Statements and commands/affirmations and visualizations consciously down in meditation daily, help to program our reality. We can envision the life we wish, safety and healing and protection for the world. We can state, "In joy, safety and harmony I step into the unknown," "I am tuning out the negative so I can attend to what I need to see, and my higher gifts." "Disclosure is now, our cosmic friends are here teaching and helping us, and the leaders have surrendered unconditionally. We are powerfully protected and healed and mother earth is shielded and healed gently. We are free and advancing and the Divine Plan is accomplished."

There are many positive images we can see. We are not limited in any way. When two or more join together and share an intention, they can create a merkaba as large as earth to heal, and shield. On the power points of earth, they can create a merkaba as large as earth to heal and shield mother earth.

Sounds like maybe Rule 34 applies here too ... hmm ... ?

reply to post by bsbray11


Spot on. Dreams are a good place to start practicing the impossible. I have been lucid dreaming for years now, and flying is just a matter of believing, among other things. With lucid dreaming especially your only limitation is your imagination. Thats why i feel so sorry for people with limited imagination. They dont know what they are missing out on. I guess you cant miss what you dont know.

Originally posted by TiM3LoRd
reply to post by Primordial

 

What if the arrow killed and alternate version of yourself. That would still leave you to be skeptical and post. The flaw isnt with the theory but the experiment.

I covered that. It would have to kill this me, in this dimension, in this time so that I could not reply to this thread. But I have, so it doesn't exist as I imagined.

The flaw is with the OP.

If he had said in an infinite time frame it's possible for anything to manifest, we would have no way to test this other than theoretical guesswork. That's not what was stated and not a theory I tested.

You'd be right if everything was random. However, EVERYTHING would have to be random. If there is just one thing in the universe that's not random, then you're wrong.

There are things that aren't random such as relativity physics. Matter not on the quantum scale behaves predictably. Unpredictable matter on the quantum scale is bound by larger predicable systems therefor it is guided by predictable systems into unpredictable paths. This means that while the paths are random, they're constrained even as time approaches infinity.

This may be hard to understand for people with lower IQs because it's pretty abstract.

But imagine an X-Y plane. Now, draw 2 horizontal lines at y=2 and y=-2. Consider them to be infinitely powerful forces. Now, imagine a particle in between the two horizontal lines that moves in a random path for an infinite amount of time. Over this infinite time interval, it will touch every point between y=2 and y=-2. However, because y=2 and y=-2 are infinitely powerful forces, it can never go past them. Thus, even as time approaches infinity, the particle will never touch any points beyond them such as any points @ y=3.

Laws of physics can't be broken. Since matter on a large scale is predictable, it's governed by non-random laws of physics. This is similar to the constraints that were y=2 and y=-2. Thus, there are events that are constrained to these laws.

So, it's impossible for everything to happen. What you're saying isn't possible.

Well right off the bat I would win the lottery every time I play. Just kidding.

Goedal, the logician, had a theory he never published while alive for obvious reasons. You may have heard of it, the God Proof.

In the proof the conclusion was if it is possible then it is necessary, it being God.

I suppose then, that if you can think of what is possible, then indeed it is necessary could applied to thought. Possible is, however, a big qualifier though.

The black hole thing with information being preserved at the event horizon is interesting, but information here is of a structural atomic type.

I think the question raised is does information contained in complex arrangements of atoms have an abstract existence? Does thinking an abstract idea make it happen. The truth seems self evident here as not necessarily.

I suppose you could look to evolution as trying all ideas, with success showing what is possible. What is possible on earth may be different from what is possible in the universe. The earth has certain constraints governing what is possible.

I would say some policy makers have this thinking that if it is thought it will happen. I don't think things work that way. There's a lot of bad ideas out there that don't work because they are not possible.

reply to post by genma


I have tried to believe this concept for a while. However, sometimes later thoughts contradict each other. And even if they didn't what if my thought was that nothing one thinks is real? Reality is different for not only every person, but even from thought to thought.