If you can imagine it, it exists.

Originally posted by constantwonder
why does anything exsist?

What would it feel like when there is "nothing"? What is "nothing"? Why does everything that exists should exist? Why is this universe the way it is?

Very interesting philosophical questions.

[edit on 23-10-2009 by sphinx551]

Originally posted by genma
Right now think of your wildest idea or most outlandish fantasy. Have that mental picture? Good. Now guess what. That concept exists somewhere, somehow in our limitless extra-dimensional multiverse. You're not crazy. Think of any video game that you've played or movie watched. Those ideas and concepts exist somewhere in tangible form. Maybe not on our planet, in our galaxy or even in our universe but somewhere they do. There's no such thing as fantasy. Reality is infinite. I'm no sage or scholar but I know deep down what I say is true. I can't prove any of this to all of you but I don't think I have to. You already knew this as well. Just search your mind, body, and soul. The answers we've been seeking have always been with us.

I 100% agree! Anything is possible within the creation, its just that we are limited to what is possible in this 3rd density planet.

reply to post by silver tongue devil


Because it both does and does not exist. That is the point of it all and the observer is the key to it all. It is the uncertainty principle in all its glory. Without an observer, or "contemplator "it cannot be there.

Take a real world example. Science considers the Heisenberg principle as a proven fact. Mathematical proofs (\Delta x \Delta p), (\Delta E \Delta t ) have been written and show that our understanding of quantum physics agree with the universe as we observe it. That implies that the universe would not exist if the Heisenberg principle did not exist. The Heisenberg principle is an observer principle, as it requires an observer to work. Take out the observer, (the "contemplator") and there is no universe.
.

reply to post by silver tongue devil


There is no end to the chatter from small minds not being able to comprehend the OP.

There have been responses to questions like that all throughout this thread.

reply to post by bsbray11


Should I wear a hat from now on that says 'Small Mind', oh spiritual advisor?

reply to post by silver tongue devil


If you can find your head, yes, that would probably give some people a fair forewarning.

But seriously, you have been addressed several times already. The problem isn't with the OP but what you *think* it means.

[edit on 23-10-2009 by bsbray11]

it seems to me that the tendency to blindly accept whatever one reads on the Internet, not to mention total unwillingness to brook dissent to these Internet-beliefs, is rather more indicative of small-mindedness than is healthy skepticism.





(edit) bsbray, your last post hadn't made it to the page by the time I wrote this one, but the sheer arrogance of it made me throw up a little, in my mouth.

[edit on 23-10-2009 by The Parallelogram]

Originally posted by The Parallelogram
it seems to me that the tendency to blindly accept whatever one reads on the Internet

See if you can find the erroneous assumption in this sentence.

I knew the OP was true before this thread even existed. No one had to tell me. I intuitively arrived at the same conclusion on my own. And I remember someone else on the first page of this thread saying the same. So there you have at least 3 people right here that are on top of their game, not 'blindly accepting whatever we read on the internet', to paraphrase you. I understand since there is no logical argument (human logic is something else we habitually imagine into existence ) it makes you feel better about it to attack us individually but the OP is still true.

Originally posted by The Parallelogram
(edit) bsbray, your last post hadn't made it to the page by the time I wrote this one, but the sheer arrogance of it made me throw up a little, in my mouth

Haha, you made yourself throw up in your mouth, and how appropriate that you should taste yourself like that. (You were probably also eating disgusting food -- also not my fault! ) I can't help you do anything; I'm probably hundreds of miles away from you! It's a shame you are so weak to the stomach.

Or maybe I have such amazing powers.... I can just make people throw up at distances on a whim...

[edit on 23-10-2009 by bsbray11]

Because "something" exists "somewhere" does not mean its a tangible object... "hypothetically" speaking

Originally posted by Irishwolf
But wouldn't this also raise the question of nothingness and the fact that I can imagine every event not happening.

You have to define "it" first before you ban it from existance and that would break continuity which you could do hypothetically but not actually.

[If I imagine that something never has existed and never will and someone else imagines that the same thing does exist what happens then? Does the universe just implode or something?

The infinite realm of possibilities does not have rules. Duh. Remember there are 4 quadrants of the cartesian plane or maybe the diagram to represent dominant/recessive genes is a better example.

aside from that it is my opinion that Gods domain extends beyond all that is/was/will be even over all that which is not/never was/never will be so this makes perfect sense to me

[edit on 23-10-2009 by notsympl]

[edit on 23-10-2009 by notsympl]

Originally posted by constantwonder
why does anything exsist?

Originally posted by sphinx551
What would it feel like when there is "nothing"? What is "nothing"? Why does everything that exists should exist? Why is this universe the way it is?
[edit on 23-10-2009 by sphinx551]

To me, it's proof of God, the devine universal creative concious.

That which man cannot change (matter) exists as God wishes it to be, which is simply "to be". Everything else within mans reach is subject to change. A playground to experience and bring into existence the infinite. Evolution may better be described as a process of thought and life a process of evolution.

[edit on 23-10-2009 by notsympl]

Originally posted by bsbray11

I knew the OP was true before this thread even existed. No one had to tell me. I intuitively arrived at the same conclusion on my own.

That's my whole problem with this thread. You can't intuit the laws of the Universe.

So there you have at least 3 people right here that are on top of their game, not 'blindly accepting whatever we read on the internet', to paraphrase you.

Three minds in agreement do not make a Truth. Over nine hundred people agreed with Jim Jones. I bet they all thought they were pretty on top of their game. They're all dead now.

I understand since there is no logical argument (human logic is something else we habitually imagine into existence

This in and of itself makes it pretty much impossible to debate you, so I'm sure you understand my frustration.

Haha, you made yourself throw up in your mouth, and how appropriate that you should taste yourself like that.

What a bizarre thing to say. What did you mean by that? Seriously?

(You were probably also eating disgusting food -- also not my fault!

)

This too is bizarre beyond comprehension. I am starting to see a pattern here, with things coming totally out of left field...

I can't help you do anything;

And again. I didn't use the word 'help' in any of my posts in this thread. You are getting pretty incoherent.

Or maybe I have such amazing powers.... I can just make people throw up at distances on a whim...

I'd love to believe that this was a joke, but after the rest of your post, I'm really not sure. Go imagine yourself some Seroquel, and calm down a little bit. Come back later, and let's talk about the subject of the thread.



Here are some questions to get you started.


First of all, explain to me the mechanism by which the things we imagine come into existence. What are the physics underlying this process? Where do the necessary energy and matter come from? When these things are created, where do they go-- empty space in our own Universe? Another dimension? If the Universe is capable of such wonderment, why can't it simply manifest our desires here, right in front of us?

Secondly, which imaginations become real, and which don't? For instance, if you imagine some entity in a dream, but forget the dream before waking, does the entity still become real? If not, why? What factors lead to an imagined thing becoming real or remaining imaginary? Does it require constant concentration, or that we clap our hands and wish real hard, or what?


I'd be happy to debate the details of this theory with you, if you've put any thought into them. I'll feel pretty insulted if your 'intuiting' this idea was the deepest you'd looked into it, and you were only here to mock people who dared ask questions.

reply to post by The Parallelogram


no disrespect but you're being a blockhead and a buzzkill. no one is trying to argue you on your ground because you are right from where you are. some of us seem to understand imagination and how something can exist in a story and be real in a dream though we may not be able to spend all that money we hid under our bed before/after we woke up.

nothing tangible grows to fruition without first being a seed of creation spawned from thought.

[edit on 23-10-2009 by notsympl]

[edit on 23-10-2009 by notsympl]

Originally posted by The Parallelogram

Originally posted by bsbray11

I knew the OP was true before this thread even existed. No one had to tell me. I intuitively arrived at the same conclusion on my own.

That's my whole problem with this thread. You can't intuit the laws of the Universe.

And you've proven this where?

In your own head? Oh yeah, you can't do it, you're right.

Actually, every single great scientific mind of Western history has done exactly what you are claiming is impossible. Newton, apple, much? No, you don't want to hear about all that, because in the end you have to be "smarter" than I am anyway, so I guess I should try to be more humble lest you are unable to have a conversation for continuing to throw up in your own mouth, hmmm?

So there you have at least 3 people right here that are on top of their game, not 'blindly accepting whatever we read on the internet', to paraphrase you.

Three minds in agreement do not make a Truth.

True, but you were suggesting I believe this stuff simply because I read it on the internet. Stay focused, please.

This in and of itself makes it pretty much impossible to debate you, so I'm sure you understand my frustration.

Oh, I definitely understand your frustration. You are just going to become more and more frustrated trying to argue with me, I know it better than you apparently do. You might as well just laugh with me and think what you want.

What a bizarre thing to say. What did you mean by that? Seriously?

I meant just what I said, really. If someone made me angry and I killed that person and got blood on my hands, how appropriate for me that would also be. What I'm saying is that I have no control over what you do, what goes through your head, how you feel. No one has control over that but you. So when you find yourself getting angry or frustrated or anything like that, you need look no farther than yourself to correct the issue. So when you make yourself throw up in your mouth, I say that is very appropriate, almost like universal comedy. It really made me giggle.

This too is bizarre beyond comprehension. I am starting to see a pattern here, with things coming totally out of left field...

I live out in left field. I understand your frustration better than you might realize.

I'd love to believe that this was a joke

It mostly was. Any such powers are yet unrealized in me.

Go imagine yourself some Seroquel, and calm down a little bit.

Totally calm.

Here are some questions to get you started.


First of all, explain to me the mechanism by which the things we imagine come into existence.

Ok. You think something, and your mind takes you there! Now I suppose you are going to horrendously misinterpret this statement, which is the real problem. I am talking about something very subtle that most people miss. The difference between you and, say, Isaac Newton, is you don't see things like Isaac did. That sounds obvious but there is some depth to it that 99% of everybody misses. It is not just a shallow statement. I can literally look at the same object as you, have the same general pattern of photons hit my eyes, and yet the patterns that fire across my brain subsequently can be entirely different than what fires across yours. And this literally is a WORLD of difference. It's the same world in one respect, and yet it isn't, in another. That should make a lot more sense to you than to think that whatever we imagine simply pops into physical existence in front of us as if someone were just waiting to put it there. That's not what anyone is saying at all.

What are the physics underlying this process? Where do the necessary energy and matter come from? When these things are created, where do they go-- empty space in our own Universe? Another dimension? If the Universe is capable of such wonderment, why can't it simply manifest our desires here, right in front of us?

Hey, I have a question for you. What are the physics of love? What are the physics of consoling your dying mother, or singing an infant to sleep? I'm starting to leave the box you call "logic" and step back out into left field again, if you haven't noticed.

Logic is modal and really very arbitrary. I was obsessed with technical knowledge at one point, almost religiously studying all different aspects of physics (and I am an electronics engineering student btw -- post me a free-body diagram or better yet, a circuit problem if you like -- just nothing too complex as some of those series/parallel capacitive/inductive circuits literally take pages of painstaking calculations to analyze). But there came a point when I realize we are all just making this stuff up. A "photon" could just as easily be called a "dog beard" and the universe would still operate on the same principles which we really do not understand. Which is why we continue to study them. The bottom line is that we ARE still learning -- or at least I am -- are you?

There is nothing too troubling here, just different ways of looking at the same "things" we all collectively experience in this world. "Just" different ways of perceiving. And yes, you are allowed to call me names and poop on what I say. It wouldn't be what it is if you weren't.

[edit on 23-10-2009 by bsbray11]

repost remove pls

[edit on 23-10-2009 by notsympl]

Originally posted by notsympl
reply to post by The Parallelogram

 

no disrespect but you're being a blockhead and a buzzkill. no one is trying to argue you on your ground because you are right from where you are. some of us seem to understand imagination and how something can exist in a story and be real in a dream though we may not be able to spend all that money we hid under our bed before/after we woke up.

[edit on 23-10-2009 by notsympl]

this board isn't about catching a buzz. it's about exploring undiscovered territory. and there was a time when I wouldn't have been bitched at for insisting that we do so by means of REASON, rather than intuition-- id est, playing pretend.

ATS is dead. Threads like this, with no basis in reality and a massive, bloodthirsty peanut gallery out to defend the delusion du jour, killed it. Insult me some more; it's a beautiful feeling, rich with irony, being martyred for the sake of good science.

Originally posted by notsympl
no disrespect but you're being a blockhead and a buzzkill.

Awww he's not doing anybody any harm, I actually enjoy his company. Anyways there are millions/billions of people that think just like him; no use wasting your energy trying to slap all the waves back out into the ocean.

Originally posted by The Parallelogram
ATS is dead. Threads like this, with no basis in reality and a massive, bloodthirsty peanut gallery out to defend the delusion du jour, killed it.

This is good news. If ATS is dead, then what we have left over here must be a rebirth! And I like where this is going.

All these "nonsense" threads really got me going when I first started seeing them. There is already plenty of nonsense all over the internet, but not nonsense like this! This is literally the only place on the web I can find such knowledgeable people on such esoteric subjects, and I'm a member of several exclusively esoteric/spiritual forums. I think it's the sheer amount of people/posting here that kindles the flame so much better than other places. I really love these forums.

[edit on 24-10-2009 by bsbray11]

Originally posted by The Parallelogram
this board isn't about catching a buzz.

What is the "buzz"? It's the moment that allows you to create and be.

ATS is dead. Threads like this, with no basis in reality and a massive, bloodthirsty peanut gallery out to defend the delusion du jour, killed it. Insult me some more; it's a beautiful feeling, rich with irony, being martyred for the sake of good science.

hypothetical reality is the father of scientific reality and each contribute to eachother.
But, my problem with scientific reality is, as far as i'm concerned, once you start try to figure "it" out and until you actually do you in fact forget what "it" is all about.

reply to post by bsbray11


what are some of the forums?

i was actually thinking about starting a thread requesting anyone to post there own philosophical statements, summed up truths if you will. i've got a few and i would love to see what other poeple have reflected upon in their own experience, no using other peoples ideas ofcourse.

who said the universe is infinate? is this thread a joke? dont get me wrong, im sure that whats really going on out there is much more then the average human can imagine... but that doesnt mean every, or nearly every concievable situation is or has happened

reply to post by notsympl


The more active ones are the Astral Pulse, the Esoteric Arcanum, and the Order of Bards, Ovates and Druids (OBOD). But like I said, ATS has them beat hands down imo.

I don't have any original truths, though. Everything is as it should be.... I can just say be aware that there is always something greater than yourself, namely "everything," ie "all is one." Everything is part of you. But those are hardly original. It just seems like it every time one of us rediscovers their validity and depth of meaning. I shouldn't say anything at all, really, but I can't seem to keep my "mouth" shut...

Namaste.

[edit on 24-10-2009 by bsbray11]