An attack on America by Europe

I'm gobsmacked (quaint old british terminology). I didn't realise that there are still people who believe that the invasion of Iraq had anything to do with defence. There were many reasons for the invasion. You may even agree with them. But defence was not one of them. A lot of us saw through it from the start. Indeed there are some who believe that Tony Blair is a war criminal. USA and Britain are both culpable in this regard.

[edit on 21-10-2009 by unicorn1]

[edit on 21-10-2009 by unicorn1]

Originally posted by kindred
You couldn't be more wrong seagull. I won't react violently, why would I? However, I will say that Iraq had nothing to do with defending your country, and Iraq was never a threat to begin with, as we were taken into that war on a pack of lies anyway. I blame both British and Amercan governments, not the people.

I'm British by the way.

[edit on 21-10-2009 by kindred]

Respectfully, I would point out that a citizen of another country isn't in the position to make judgment on what is, or is not, a threat to another country. How would one even begin to know something like that?

*I'm not saying whether it was/wasn't* but I'm also not making a stone cold statement like that either and especially not about another country.

Again, generalization and judgment at its finest... one of the 'many' points the OP was addressing.

[edit on 21-10-2009 by LadySkadi]

Both USA and UK citizens were sold the same line so Kindred makes a valid point.

[edit on 21-10-2009 by unicorn1]

reply to post by DeCivitateDei




Hateful?

I don't hate anybody!

OK maybe my eXwifes lawyer.

But you cant blame a guy for that!

I am from the UK and I have a major issue with this post, although the point was against "europe" not the UK some of the evidence used was from the early 20th century. Daddybare you come up with a story about the youth of the 40s to support evidence of europe against the states. I have nothing against the states but we are talking about 70 years ago.
Lets be honest the States are not known for their acts of humanity. Look at the New Orleans hurricane which was fairly recent, where was your humanity and aid to the people left homeless. The UK have blindly followed the US into every battle even though most of the country was against it.
I do not believe that the UK are without their problems but we do care for our own, we will always ensure that a person has warmth, shelter and food in there bellies. I will not long on the past as it has to be left there.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by DeCivitateDei

 

OK maybe my eXwifes lawyer.

But you cant blame a guy for that!

AHA! And he was American. I'm not and I would have never represented your ex-wife... especially since I'm not a lawyer. See? We're friends already!

(Sorry for the off-topic remark but this thread really needs to lighten up imo)

reply to post by unicorn1


If you are refering to me, you will note that for the third time, in as many posts, I've said "wrong war, wrong time, wrong place". Hopefully, I won't have to say it a fourth time... Gets boring after a while.

This is my country, America if y'all haven't figured it out yet, and for better or for worse, my home. We have our fair share of skeletons, 'tis true. So do you in your own countries. We'll deal with them in our own way, in our own time.

Correct me if i'm wrong, i got bored reading the OP (I really fall asleep at the America is oh so great thingy, I like like to think we are one world striving to better ourselves, not that it happens, but there are us that are trying), but all Americans past ancestry, up until America was created was tied in with Europeans wasn't it? Wasn't it largely Europeans that colonised America, raped and pillaged the natives and planted their flag? So that makes it your history right? Aren't some Americans guilty of attrocities in Vietnam and the middle east, you know, like raping and killing the locals (sound familiar c1500's?).

We all have dark past's whichever breed we come from, go back as far as you want, there will be something there. Just stop it with the "we are America the all great and all powerful and totally innocent of everything that came before us" CRAP.

I know this doesn't apply to all Americans (I have lots of friends over there), just the minority, same in Europe and the UK, there are people who heads are so far up their own arses when it comes to their countries they could chew their food twice.

If I have totally gone off track and got the wrong end the stick then i'm sorry and maybe I should have read more of the OP, but what I read was enough for me to deliver this rant.


EDIT: After Slayer69 forced me by blunt rubber spoon point to read the whole of the OP, I take back some of what I have wrote, i'm not going to delete any of it, i wrote it, maybe a bit hastily, but I still think some of it counts. I think I have just read far too many stupid threads here on ATS that have been cropping up latley its clouding my (pre)judgement, apologies for any offence.

[edit on 21/10/09 by woogleuk]

reply to post by chrissylee

I do not believe that the UK are without their problems but we do care for our own, we will always ensure that a person has warmth, shelter and food in there bellies. I will not long on the past as it has to be left there.

Are you saying the US doesn't care about its own?

We have organizations all over the states in addition to government welfare to prove you wrong.

You talk about Katrina and humanity. Why don't you look up what Texas and other states did to help out our neighbors next door. Look up what volunteers did to help out the people of New Orleans.

Humanity and aid doesn't only come from the government. It comes from its people as well.

[edit on 21-10-2009 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by LadySkadi


Respectfully, your post couldn't be further from the truth. I and everyone else has every right to voice our opinions. You do realise that all these wars are being fought with hard earned tax payers money. Our hard earned money is being used to drop bombs on innocent people. That's bad enough, but the fact that wars like Iraq and Afghanistan were sold to us using blatant lies and propaganda makes it even more deplorable. Sorry but I and everyone else who lives in the UK & US has every right to judge those in power. After all they exist to serve us, or at least that's the way it's supposed to be.

reply to post by kindred

You said:

Originally posted by kindred
However, I will say that Iraq had nothing to do with defending your country

To which I will reply again: as a citizen of another country, you are in no position to know this. Period.

Never said you couldn't voice your opinion on the response of the US Govt... but realize that it is just that, an opinion. Not fact.

...and Iraq was never a threat to begin with, as we were taken into that war on a pack of lies anyway. I blame both British and Amercan governments, not the people.

I'm British by the way.

Maybe so. Not disagreeing with your right to your opinion, no need for the *eyes* emoticon...



[edit on 21-10-2009 by LadySkadi]

reply to post by kindred


Kindred, I take exception to your statement that Iraq was never a threat.

In 1991, during the Gulf War, Hussein started lobbing rockets at Israeli cities. Israel wasn't involved, but Saddam wanted to drag them in to create complications with the "coalition."

To say the Israeli's were some kind of pissed is an understatement. You see, another time, under other circumstances, and something like this can kick off a war that drags everyone in.

Who gave a rat's fuzzy about an archduke getting shot in Bosnia?

Well, that little item started World War One. A miscalculation.

To say Iraq was never a threat is to be myopic.

ANYONE who would start firing at Israel is begging for an old-fashioned, country ass-whipping.

So aside from Iraq violating UN resolutions and firing on American planes patrolling the border, don't even try it.

Those who know better, know better.

I don't like the fact that the US attacked Iraq. I don't like the fact that we were stuck there like flies on flypaper.

But I also would not ever suggest that Iraq wasn't a threat to anyone.

reply to post by kindred

Our hard earned money is being used to drop bombs on innocent people.

If you believe that our hard money is being used to drop bombs on innocents, why are you still paying taxes? Would you rather not sit in a jail defending such an act from happening?

but the fact that wars like Iraq and Afghanistan were sold to us using blatant lies and propaganda makes it even more deplorable.

Have you ever notice how people concentrate on who sold the lies rather than who created the lies?

reply to post by chrissylee

We in the US are not known for their humanity? Are you blind, deaf, or just outright ignorant?

Did you mention Hurricane Katrina? As an example?

Hey, genius, hurricanes hit the US with regularity. We always seem to get through.

Now are you talking about the utterly stupid, lazy-assed people who lived ten feet below sea level, and in spite of warnings to evacuate, didn't?

I was in New Orleans right after it hit, and you don't know squat.

It may have been 70 years ago, but I have lots of family that died during those years, years when Britain couldn't feed itself, and was hanging on by their fingernails.

My family members would still be alive if Chamberlain and Dildolier hadn't pussy-footed around for years, caving into Hitler's every demand time after time, after time.

What was the difference? What changed? What changed your destiny?

That cold, ruthless bunch of SOB's called the US.

Jesus!

Should have stayed home.

Originally posted by chrissylee

Lets be honest the States are not known for their acts of humanity. Look at the New Orleans hurricane which was fairly recent, where was your humanity and aid to the people left homeless. The UK have blindly followed the US into every battle even though most of the country was against it.

It's all here. Enjoy

As far as foreign aid goes.
Here is what many at ATS like to show as the extent of foreign aid to the world.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/be55a847f0dd.jpg[/atsimg]

However when we look at actual worth of those contributions,
it reveals a whole other story.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/70389b755759.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1beef4228657.jpg[/atsimg]


United States of America, Charity, Foreign Aid, and a Comparison to the World

It took quite a bit of searching to find a reputable source that provides both government foreign aid and private contributions, but GlobalIssues.org seems to have it down. The only problem is that they created a chart solely for government aid, then added the statistics of private charity right below it. Here are some integrated charts including the private aid statistics along with government foreign aid in 2007:

Government Foreign Aid, in Total Dollars:

U.S. Aid to Asian Tsunami Victims

Dateline: December 29, 2004

U.S. aid to victims of the Asian tsunami disaster now totals $35 million. Where do the funds come from, why does the United States contribute relief to disaster victims around the world and how can you help the tsunami victims?

Source of U.S. International Disaster Relief

The U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) is the lead agency for distribution of disaster relief funds to foreign countries. Originally created after World War II to aid in the Marshall Plan reconstruction of Europe, USAID took its modern form in 1961, when President John F. Kennedy signed the Foreign Assistance Act into law.

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by Dermo

 

So if your Empire is killing millions of innocents at the moment.. you can't seriously expect people to view it as perfectly acceptable simply because their great great great great great great great great grandfather's leaders forced them to do the same thing.

Which is worse, the country killing millions of innocents, or the countries sitting back watching and doing nothing?

Not that I agree with your numbers.

Think about it. You have all these countries and international laws that have said nothing or better yet, done nothing.

If they believe it isn't right, why haven't they done something about it.

It isn't just the US, it's the whole world. Just about everybody has an interest in the outcome of these wars.

If the opinions of the people factored in, these wars wouldn't exist. It's not entire countries that do nothing about US imperial aggression, it is the leaders.

IMO some are politicians who lack the moral courage to stand up to the bankers who started these nonsense wars.

For some others, its not in their best interests to stop the aggressive empire from deflating like a clowns balloon... they're on the sidelines watching the bully stumble around Iraq & the graveyard of empires, slowly bleeding out a death of a thousand cuts... and going hilariously broke in the process.

So broke the US govt can't even pay attention.

this thread title is very sensational, and kind of misleads.

this thread discussion is kind of too nationalistic

I'm with you guys in the sense that Europe should indeed stop criticizing the US, but I feel like no one should say anything at all. It's pointless and counter-productive to insult another country unless you're at war with them.


edit: and even then, it's still unnecessary!

[edit on 21-10-2009 by piddles]

reply to post by jam321


Last time I checked, protesting isn't a crime, so why would I be in jail and unlike Blair and Bush, I haven't comitted any crimes. There the ones who should be in jail, but nodoubt you'll disagree.

This thread is about nothing but blowing America's trumpet. So who am I to stand in the way.

In regards to conspiracies, like Lady Skull said,"as a citizen of another country, you are in no position to know this." Period.

By the amount of stars she's gotten, most people seem to agree which makes this entire thread pointless, because none of you are in a position to know anything.... but realize that it is just that, an opinion. Not fact! Keep blowing your trumpets if you must, but I'm out of this pointless thread.

Originally posted by chrissylee
Lets be honest the States are not known for their acts of humanity. Look at the New Orleans hurricane which was fairly recent, where was your humanity and aid to the people left homeless.

Quite sincerely, exactly what do you know about the Katrina events that wasn't apparently spoon fed (while you still have spoons) to you by someone or something with an anti-Bush or anti-U.S. agenda?

Have you heard that the mayor and governor refused federal assistance as the hurricane approached? Have you seen the pictures of all the school buses under water in New Orleans while they complained that there was no way to evacuate? Other cities in that area somehow figured out what to do and how to save themselves. Also, did anyone explain to you that it takes about 3 days for the federal government to respond to ANY emergency? Did they explain to you that it took 3 days for the federal government to respond? Did they also explain to you that during the midwest floods that followed, that more people were killed or displaced than in New Orleans, but the people themselves took responsibility and in some cases even refused federal aid when it was offered instead of just playing the victim?

Last, look up the world-wide foreign aid statistics before you ever post something as dumb as "the States are not known for their acts of humanity".



Now about the spoons. there was an article posted here awhile back about the government wanting to require proof of age before anyone in the UK was allowed to buy a spoon. A spoon for god's sake. Sounds like you have way more "fish to fry" in your own country before "helping" us out with ours.



[edit on 10/21/2009 by centurion1211]