2012 Mass Delusion

reply to post by Skyfloating

Hi Sky,
I think people do expect the Mayans to be above all human negativity and are therefore seen by those who Believe, to be highly spiritual. We must not understand ancient tribal concepts of spirituality, if they had them.

All tribes around the globe have done human sacrifice to their gods. It is just how humans have been in the past, and present at times too.

Now, I know you are not closed minded so I can share some off-center information from another lifetime as a messenger during early Mayan times. The sacrifices were For the gods and not To the gods, because their gods were present in the vicinity in the B.C. eras. That race harvest earth regularly and are again present in growing numbers. We now know the Mayans were around much earlier than our history books tell us. So for me, the deaths of all those people were to provide their gods with something other than being honored.

The Hopi spoke about the late 1990's saying that the sky signs would come but nothing would happen even though people were afraid it was the end of the world. And that people would go back to how they were living before their fear arose and once it was forgotten then the events occur. They say the sky signs only show where we are in earth's huge lifecycle. People have forgotten now.

2012 cannot be the end of the world, it still has about 5 billion more years before the sun swallows it up. So if there is to be a major ending, it must then be the end of how we humans live upon this planet, only. It may include major earth events because as anyone who has been keeping watch on the planet can tell you, there is a build up over the past 10 years or so that may well lead to major earth effects. There is a definite increase in severity and number of events.

Now onto visions of 2012. Being a spiritually motivated person such as yourself, and not prone to self-censorship caused by Beliefs, I can share my own visions of the very near future....

The build up is happening as I saw it back in 1998. The chaos of humanity has increased as I saw it and the lead-up to probable major war is happening as I write this. We could say many things are now in place for a major change.

I did see major earth events for the year 2012. Heaving seas, volcanic eruptions causing the low clouds to reflect orange light, bolides or ejecta from volcanoes screaming in through the cloud deck, etc. The entire planet had a groaning feeling to it as it rattled and shook producing amazing shifts and uplifting in various places.

There were other things I do not wish to share openly as yet. But, I do not see any of this as Doom and Gloom. Possibly because I see the Light in the Darkness and not focus only on one half of the total equation. For me, these events will finalise the negative way we have abused the planet and the people on it for many thousands of years, so that is a positive thing to me.

We tend for some inane reason to think our culture is not like every other culture before us that rose and fell. We have trouble seeing the demise heading our way, even if the earth does nothing, we are still in demise. I would prefer to see it over and done with quickly than to watch us starve and choke all life off the planet.

About my visions Sky. I've had clear visions about many things over all my years, I was born this way. And each vision shown to me has come to fruition, so I personally cannot doubt any of it. But this does not mean you should believe me, far from it, I would prefer you Intend and Look for yourself instead.

In the end, no one will agree or find consensus until we pass the year 2012 and see what happens.

I hope my visions were wrong, because that means I am crazy, and I can live with that. At the same time, I think it will take major events for humanity to make real change, or suffer the demise as a natural part of the cycles.

nothing is going to happen dec 22 2012. if it does then whoop de doo. But it wont i'll put money on it. I'll bet every single cent i own nothing will happen and here is why. IF and i mean IF what people say happens and some massive event happens on that date and i dont care what it is. Things will change in such a way that we cant even comprehend right now. BUT IF NOTHING happens welllllll then ill be investing all my winning in a a pharmaceutical company that deals in anti depressive pills. cos there are going to be a # load of unhappy campers out there. so either way i win. Nothing happens in 2012 ill be rich and if something happens i wont have a cent but the world will be changed.

Its the ride not the destination fellows dont forget that.

You must agree that each person is at their own level of intelligence and spiritual progression. That being said, You need to know that most of us are experienceing a change which we consider to be a positive one. There is no gloom and doom. Of course there are those who will find negativity in all things. Perhaps you are one of those people.

You have a right to your opinion but so does everyone else, no matter how lowly you see them. You appear to be pretty full of yourself but you might consider that all souls are equal. Those of us who "really know" are not tied to the 2012 date. The time may in fact be shorter.

Nothing is as it seems, it is your perception of things which has you fooled .If you knew who was really running things you might just find a load in your shorts. In the mean time why not try a little more love and kindness to your fellow man?

BE AS ONE, Magantice

I haven't quite got a million on me, but I'll bet everything I have that the world won't end on 12/21/2012. Just to feed the kitty.

I think there is some confusion about the 2012 idea. Some people treat it as a *religious* idea, but it's not. It's an idea that purports to be based on a calendar that the Mayans created, that ends on the magic date. It is the end of a cycle, and the end of a mega-cycle (a set of 13 smaller cycles). So therefore it marks the end of the world, or maybe just the end of a certain way and the beginning of another (maybe even ushering in a new age of enlightenment and joy). Whatever. It's a pure invention of poor scholarship and wishful thinking.

It's a calendar. They are all based on cycles and larger cycles. Weeks, months, years, the four-year set of years plus leap year. They all end. Then they start over again. And nothing much happens on that day, because it's just a man-made way of marking off the days, not some essential feature of the Universe. The Universe isn't impressed by the fact that some man-made calendar's cycles come to an end on some particular day. It won't even notice.

I might take this idea a little more seriously, if I hadn't already survived several dozen ends of the world, harmonic convergences, and other major events, both positive and negative. Oh, yeah, the Age of Aquarius, too... The first few times I found it exciting:

Harmony and understanding
Sympathy and trust abounding
No more falsehoods or derisions
Golden living dreams of visions
Mystic crystal revalation
And the mind's true liberation
Aquarius!

Oh, I was thrilled to be living in such eventful times. I'm still waiting. Then there was the harmonic convergence, then there was some prediction by Tony Alamo (I think it was for the world to end in 1987, but who remembers), prophecies and predictions by Christians, the Hare Krishnas, dozens of fringe groups all clamoring for members, New Agers, and so on. Of course, 2000 was supposed to be the end. Not only did you have the Christians thinking it was the end of times, you had computer folks predicting an IT meltdown, the Y2K bug.

Really, nothing's going to change, unless we change it. No aliens are going to come down here and make it all better. That hasn't happened since Mom kissed away the pain of a bruise. No angels are going to do that, either. No end of the world, cosmic upsurge, harmonic convergence, apocalypse, etc. We're going to do it, one way or the other. If we work at it, we can make changes for the better. If we don't, we may wind up driving ourselves to extinction. But whatever happens, it will be up to us. We're doing it even as I speak, headed in the wrong direction in my opinion.

Too many people cling to notions like the 2012 event as the thing that will change their lives, make them better. They delude themselves that, if they can only hang on a couple more years, the change will happen automatically and painlessly; or at least, without their efforts.

I don't know what people are going to do when 2012 rolls around and nothing much happens. Some may convince themselves that they felt a change. Some may abandon the whole notion. Most will likely just find another date, not too far into the future, when the big change will *really* take place. Already we're looking at 2060, based on Newton's biblical predictions. But I'm sure there will be dates chosen that are much sooner than that.

I find this tragic, because so many people keep looking to something or someone else to make their lives better, to solve all their problems, or at least to take them out of their misery in this vale of tears. They're waiting, instead of making the changes themselves that need to happen. For most of these people, the change will never happen. They're waiting for it to be handed to them, instead of finding it themselves. It will never happen.

I'd love it if we ever really did have a New Age. I don't much care for the idea of having to work hard for my spiritual progress. I'd rather have it handed to me on a silver platter. But I'd rather have everything else handed to me that way, too, and it doesn't work that way. So, sadly, I slowly make my way along my path.

reply to post by Skyfloating


lul suffering, explain the mayan calender, and Michio Kaku's and other physicists prediction that there will be a major solar flare in 2012. I am not saying that the world is going to end, but I still believe that there will be change in and around 2012. The UFO conspiracy is falling apart, and sooner than later the fact that we are not alone is going to become news to the masses, which will intern, turn the world on its head.

reply to post by Skyfloating


here here .

i have been less generous - and actually asked the people who claim the world is going to end to deed me all thier assests - post dated to 01st jan 2013

so far - no one has been brave enough


i wonder why

reply to post by redoubt

Lol..excellent.. i want to tailgate with you! I will bring the JD

This is a topic that i still have not made my mind up about ..in some aspects it does seem awfully accurate, but then in other aspects not so much.. and i can not bring myself to believe a word Sitchen says for instance. .The date doesnt add up, but regardless, someting is coming.. what it is, how bad, why.. all remain to be seen, but i dont think its much longer before its upon us. One thing i did want to comment on from this OP, is the mention of the Mayans blood sacrifices..you said it as though they were either the only culture, or one of a very few cultures that practiced this form of worship..all civilizations early days include human and animal, as well as child sacrificial rites..it doesnt make them 'evil' for it, and it doesnt mean they werent advanced beings.

There seems to be an all or nothing view to 2012. Either the world is going to die in a firey cataclysm, or absolutely nothing is going to happen. That's very typically human, though, we believe it's either going to happen the way we think it will, or else the entire thing is a load of nonsense.

We live in a universe of cycles. Some cycles are small. The opening and closing of a flower, the rising and setting of the sun, the phases of the moon, the earth's orbit around the sun. We see them all around us, and they never fail. They have 2 aspects - waxing and waning. The flower starts out closed shut, then begins to open, and continues to open until it is fully open, and then after a spell of being open, it begins the opposite aspect of it's cycle and begins to close again. Same with the sun, the moon, the earth, everything. It gives the universe it's rythm, and the consistency of it allowed the mayans and others like them to chart eclipses and heavenly events centuries before they occurred.

Within our yearly cycle around the sun, we also have our equinoxes. These are cycles within cycles. They're also gradual. We mark these equinoxes and know that the sun will be in a specific place in our sky at a specific point, and it always is, without fail.

We don't go to bed one night looking out at heavy snow and sub zero temperatures, and then wake up the next morning to find that spring is at it's maximum. The changes between the seasons are gradual, edging from one season to the next, but spring always follows winter, and the equinoxes are always in the same place. However, whilst the northern hemisphere is shovelling snow and wiping a runny nose, the southern hemisphere is enjoying their summer time, and watching the water run down their drain the wrong way.

Some cycles are big, so big that you can live your entire life inside one aspect of it and never know of the opposite aspect. Some cycles are so big it's impossible for us to know anything about the opposite aspect, because there's no written record of it. Granted, there is a lot of stuff that's been carved into the hardest stone on earth and left standing for all time, huge structures that were built at a time when we believe mankind was still hanging out in caves and drawing pretty pictures on the walls, but I'm sure none of that is important, that's why I was taught in school that the Egyptians built the pyramids, and nobody mentioned that we have no clue how they did it. I'm sure it's also not important that I never heard about Puma Punchu in school either, because it's perfectly rational to believe that a bunch of primitive humans with no written language would leave their mud huts every day and go and build a huge structure with lazer like precision, then go home to the wife in the mud hut and laugh about how confused everyone's going to be thousands of years later.

So you're probably right, all this nonsense about a cycle drawing to a close and a new one beginning. I mean, if our civilisation was about to fall, we'd expect to see it struggling to stay standing. We'd expect to see financial chaos as those in the know started to grab at all the money and wealth to try to go out on top, like in a monopoly game. Once a certain point is passed in the game, it's do or die, and it's all about having the biggest pile of assets in front of you at the end of the game. But we don't see any of that, our economy is steady, our governments are looking after our best interests, and there's nothing to worry about. We might expect to see an increase in natural disasters, as the stresses and strains of the transition from one aspect of the cycle to the other takes place. But we've not had any major floods, no out of the ordinary earthquakes, no super storms or tsunamis to speak of either.

Nothing at all to suggest that there could be changes up ahead, nope, absolutely none at all. [/irony]

reply to post by Full_Vision


despite all his faults - sitchin does not actually make any claims for 2012

infact he specifically states that 2012 is NOT the date for his nibiru fantasy

What would be nice after reading a while on ATS and other 'alternative' sites , is that the 'law of attraction' or Karmic balance comes into play, think about it, a HUGE number of people all believing the stories and rumors about 2012, as there is going to be MORE hype about 2012 than about 2000 IMO, even Hollywood is jumping on the 2012 bandwagon with its upcoming film imaginatively entitled '2012'.

We have people saying about cosmic balance and that if people want change then all they have to do is believe in it, and hope for it, even wish and pray for it.
Its a nice thought that if there were enough people worried about 2012 to hope for the best, concentrate on good thoughts and all that then maybe there will be a shift of balance from the current darkness we seem to be heading down and gear us all towards the light.

Of course something like that isn't tangible or solid so most won't believe it if it was to happen, all the doom sayers that are around now sill say " Because of the positive beliefs of the majority of people any crisis that was inbound was averted , hence making the doom laden prophesy null and void".

I favor that more and more people as we get nearer to 2012 for real wil remember the movie and all the doom , death and destruction Hollywood wrought upon 'the world' on celluloid and then the negativity will prevail, more and more scams on the gullible will be prevalent, ascension robes galore , cults promising 'salvation' for a modest fee of course and all that other nonsense. People will falter from their attempts to purge negativity from their souls and thoughts , begin to worry , more doomsayers will jump on ATS and the other sites , doom and gloom, DOOM AND GLOOOOM will be the buzzwords " the end is nigh" will be the religeous bywords. people will fall for them hook , line and sinker.

Whatever happens is I feel that this 'forseen' upheaval or change of humanity will not come from geological instability or alien interevention but on Mankinds frustration at the inept politicians , greedy bankers and so called self styled Elites running and ruining the world for their own gains, the people will get so annoyed that they will take action, protests turning to riots, deaths of politicians, assassinations of business leaders , those the people think are responsible of the current worsening crise's. Then the mood of the people will become one of hope as people more suitable to actually doing good for the world will step into the void of power left by those either killed or routed by the masses anger. Until those people realise that the polticians and leaders had a good thing and then start the cycle all over again, simply buying more time until something more tangible and productive arises.

2012 IMO is just a misunderstanding , someone read the Mayan calender and corroborated it with other historical books, the Bible and Qu'ran as well as other teachings, codes read in such items can be gained from a high street magazine if you look hard enough. but the people think because the Mayans and Aztecs were fairly advanced cultures by definition alone then what THEY believed must be true today as well, just because their solar cycle ended in 2012 and the culture died out before their current cycle ended then it must mean its the end of the world for all, NO it just means they never got round to publishing a new cycle .

All this hysteria about 2012 is bunkum, I for one will not worry about it, after all being honest about it, just because we can reason and think , love and hate doesn't mean we're destined to get any further than we are, dinosaurs for example had they're turn , they had a good innings, they didn't worry about the world ending, but when it did for them, then we came along, something may come along on this world after we finished our time with it, but the planet will go on long after we're gone, but the universe will go on forever, why worry about our little second in the history of time?.


Besides a change for mankind could mean anything, it could be new technology making ourlives easier, like the industrial age in our past changed mankind, they certainly didn't worry about the world ending did they?

Live for today, don't worry about tomorrow or 2012.

Originally posted by TheIrvy
There seems to be an all or nothing view to 2012. Either the world is going to die in a firey cataclysm, or absolutely nothing is going to happen. That's very typically human, though, we believe it's either going to happen the way we think it will, or else the entire thing is a load of nonsense.

Yes. Not many see the bigger pictures, so few perceive it is not one or the other, but all at the same time.

Originally posted by TheIrvy
We live in a universe of cycles. Some cycles are small........

......Some cycles are big, so big that you can live your entire life inside one aspect of it and never know of the opposite aspect............

........because it's perfectly rational to believe that a bunch of primitive humans with no written language would leave their mud huts every day and go and build a huge structure with lazer like precision, then go home to the wife in the mud hut and laugh about how confused everyone's going to be thousands of years later.

So you're probably right.......

.........Nothing at all to suggest that there could be changes up ahead, nope, absolutely none at all. [/irony]

Didn't want to use a lot of characters but I loved what you had to say. Poetic, Profound and so hilariously funny that my face hurts.

Thank you.

Originally posted by Tayesin
The sacrifices were For the gods and not To the gods, because their gods were present in the vicinity in the B.C. eras. That race harvest earth regularly and are again present in growing numbers. We now know the Mayans were around much earlier than our history books tell us. So for me, the deaths of all those people were to provide their gods with something other than being honored.

Those are the "Gods" I called "lower-astral-entities" in another thread of mine you recently participated in.

They are about as benign as the Ori you are sporting in your Avatar.

there is a build up over the past 10 years or so that may well lead to major earth effects. There is a definite increase in severity and number of events.

There is much less happening than from 1912 - 1950.

About my visions Sky. I've had clear visions about many things over all my years, I was born this way.

There are disasterous events of great upheaval every year on this planet. Every year. Did you see what happened with the Tsunami on Samoa a few weeks ago?

These are not small events even if many here only see them from a distance on the news. Remember what happened 9/11?

There is stuff happening every year. You may have visions of them. But none of it is specifically linked to 2012 as far as I can tell.

(Of course there is always the possibility that I am completely ignorant)

While I tend to agree with about 90% of the original post, there are a few things that are making me think that maybe Doom will be here for 2012.

-The amount of preparation by the gov't for something.

-The weather is a little off.

-The amount of eq activity recently is pretty scary.

-The cycles of human history. There is a lot of evidence that points to ancient very advanced cultures, that just disappeared all of a sudden.

I used to scoff at all the planet x theories, but I have become a believer that we live in a binary star system. The Sun's twin burned out, but is still massive, and when it comes through the inner solar system, like it is about to do, it causes great mischief.

I am preparing for disaster. If it never happens....good. If there is massive destruction, at least I learned how to grow my own food, and have learned to be self reliant.

I am not quitting my job and running for the hills, but in the back of my mind, I know that something is wrong.

2 cents.

What if what they mean is the world reality as you know it will end.

Monetary
Philosophy
Social
Religious
Scientific

It is all ending as we know it now as we speak but something tells me our views will occur on a massive scale around 2012 and after.
What if there is a full disclosure that ETs are real and we were created by people from the stars. Those who from heaven to Earth came.

What will the naysayers say when this becomes a full blown reality? Will they try to explain it away as nonsense?

Take for example: Many still believe Kennedy was killed by a crazed lone gunmen Lee Harvey Oswald

Many still believe 911 was not an inside job and was orchestrated solely by Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

Many still think WTC 7 was struck by left over 757 perfectly collapsing it by a few small fires

[edit on 14-10-2009 by superluminal11]

Originally posted by Magantice
Nothing is as it seems, it is your perception of things which has you fooled .If you knew who was really running things you might just find a load in your shorts. In the mean time why not try a little more love and kindness to your fellow man?

I love and respect the Snake-oil-salesman as a part of the universe. But I dont have to endorse him.



[edit on 14-10-2009 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by seanizle
explain the mayan calender

The Mayan Calender is one of thousands. And it does not end 2012.

I still believe that there will be change in and around 2012

You believe it because you were told to believe it by the media. There really is no reason at all to believe it.

The UFO conspiracy is falling apart, and sooner than later the fact that we are not alone is going to become news to the masses, which will intern, turn the world on its head.

This has nothing to do with December 23rd 2012. It has to do with our times in general.

Originally posted by chiron613


Too many people cling to notions like the 2012 event as the thing that will change their lives, make them better. They delude themselves that, if they can only hang on a couple more years, the change will happen automatically and painlessly; or at least, without their efforts.

...which makes the entire movement anti-spiritual.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape

i have been less generous - and actually asked the people who claim the world is going to end to deed me all thier assests - post dated to 01st jan 2013

so far - no one has been brave enough


i wonder why

Nobody is ever going to do that because deep down they

KNOW

the future is not fixed.

Originally posted by Full_Vision
This is a topic that i still have not made my mind up about ..in some aspects it does seem awfully accurate

In which aspects? I wish 2012ers would quit generalizing and offer some MEAT.

believe a word Sitchen says for instance.

Zecharia Sitchin does not endorse 2012.

the Mayans blood sacrifices..you said it as though they were either the only culture, or one of a very few cultures that practiced this form of worship..

No I didnt. No such statement was made. Anywhere. At all.