2012 Mass Delusion

Just who? determined what katun/bactun of the long since 'dead' Maya calender the world's gregorian calender date coincides with right now?


It really seems that at the demise of the Maya Empire & it's last city state with calender priests would have made the prophetic aspect of the Great Year calender moot and pointless ...'the End time' has already transpired (for the Maya as a culture)

Todays Maya descendants are a sizeable (~6+ million) group of scattered peoples that have been assimilated into the present nationalities/tribal areas/civilazations of the Central Americas.


I'd put it that the Maya calender may academically survive, but in a practical sence the Maya timeline ceased after the Spanish conquerors & the missionaries destroyed their culture/civilization/continuity way back, starting at 1511 - 1549...


... The Mayan calendar has a Great Cycle, ending 13 bactuns or a period of 5,125 years. ... periods of 7,200 days known as the katun (19.72 yrs)

...so in 459-500 years (since the invasion & conquering) the Maya have been in a dark place for 25 0r 26 time periods called Katuns [which had prophetic trends associated with each Katun]
... they already have had the End or Demise of their world---


now they are awaiting the beginning of the start of a new time line calender...
maybe the Maya, as a cohesive people & force will regain a status as a unified culture in this fragmented world of 2009-2010.

perhaps that's the real meaning of the new 13 Bactun Great Cycle...


thanks

2012 is more like mass confusion. 2012 has started hitting the mainstream hard. Something is going to happen in or around 2012. But not the end of the world and not "Planet X".

Some people really need to snap back into reality.

Define reality for me?

Originally posted by Tayesin
Benign and it's opposite are difficult concepts based in value judgement, human value judgement, so they have no real place other than what we give it.

Yep...distrusting a snakeoil-salesman is based on this "value jugement that has no real place". It seems value judgements allow us to choose which reality we buy into and what we experience as a consequence.

There is really no value-judgement involved when recognizing that the act of running as far away as possible from the human-sacrificing tribe could be beneficial to my health.

Sorry, I had to

Not Ori, just an old druid.

Oh...

Yes, visions can be rather personal, even when they are specific on events and dates.

I believe you. I believe you have visions.

But you are smart enough to keep stuff rather generalized rather than giving very specific prophecy. You know the future is not fixed.

You probably also understand how the act of prediction itself can alter what will happen.

Originally posted by romanmel
I, as most, have just "heard and read" that 2012 was on the Myan calander and mentioned by Nostradamus, etc. I look at the Myan calendar and see nothing more than "jibberish".

People keep repeating " the mayan calendar ends 2012". But not one of them will explain how they came to that conclusion. If anything they will provide a link but not explain it in their own words.

The reason for this is, that there is nothing to explain because no such calendar exists.

Originally posted by stmichael
I don,t understand you, you read up all the information like the rest of us, if you are not interested why do you bothe to study it?

What makes you think Im not interested? I wrote an entire thread on it. Realities and Paradigms are by biggest interest.

You hear of an earthquake , or a hurricane , do YOU say well i have not seen it so i think its not true, NO you act on it, those that don,t , well you see stories in the news of xyz people died in an event that happened at such a time at this location. maybe had they had acted on info they would still be alive today.

No, actually I dont act on blatant marketing ploys and delusional revelation.

I agree that the 2012 doomsday thing is unlikely to happen. But I do think that the date is significant. To a lot of people, it's about growing up or entering the "next level" or "next cycle". Even if the thing that sparked this obsession was a crazy drugged out lunatic, people that believe in it now are giving it meaning. With current world events, I think that more and more people might be focusing on this date. Obsessing more and more. I wonder how that would effect the world, if say global consciousness was a reality.

I personally believe that 2012 will be the start of a change. A new path to take. Perhaps it's just step one of a several hundred or thousand year process, but a journey of a thousand miles

I don't know if global consciousness is real or not. But if it is, if enough people are all hoping or focusing on spiritual growth at the same time... I wonder what the effects would be. And if global consciousness is only an idea with no reality, it's still nice for people to be focusing on something like that. But at the same time, if a lot of people are expecting doom and gloom, it could be a self fulfilling prophecy.

[edit on 14-10-2009 by DemonicAngelZero]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
The reason for this is, that there is nothing to explain because no such calendar exists.

That's being ignorant, and shows you have not thoroughly researched it.


I will not do your research for you. Here is a link to get you started, read all the pages of it, or don't, it makes very little difference to me:

history.howstuffworks.com...




There are technically 3 calendars which the Maya created and used; the Tzolk'in, Haab, and 'Long Count' calendar's.

reply to post by Paroxysm


What I meant (obviously) is that no calendar that ends 2012 exists.

And I also predicted that none of the 2012-ers can explain in their own words how it ends 2012. Instead they provide a link...

Originally posted by romanmel
just look at this and point to Dec 21, 2012 for me.

www.the2012countdown.com...

Thanks.

So is anyone going to take romanme up on the offer and point out 2012 on this calendar?

OK, the 3 concentric circles of the Mayan calendar all lined up at the same point when it started. So, if on day 1, you drew a permanent line across all 3 circles, and then allowed the calendar to start to rotate, at different times 2 of those lines would come back together again. Each wheel within a wheel has it's own circumference, and is moving around at a different rate from each of the other wheels. It's like one of those spiragraph toys you played with when you were a kid.

The date that all the wheels in the calendar line up again so that the line you drew is back to how it was on day 1 is 21st Dec 2012. The calendar doesn't say "21st Dec 2012", that's just what we call that day in our modern way of telling time. However, whatever you decide to call that day, however you define it, that is the day that the Mayan calendar has completed it's cycle and returns to it's starting point. It's a complete set of cycles within cycles, ending in the completion of all the cycles and the beginning of a new set of cycles. That day also coincides with the winter equinox, and it coincides with out crossing over into the other hemisphere of the galaxy.

reply to post by TheIrvy


I starred your post because you are the first to actually make an effort. Thanks.

Why don't you START by reading the Wikipedia FACTS on how the end date of the 'Long Count' calendar comes to that date of 2012 for the end of this "creation period", and then branch your research out from there.

en.wikipedia.org...

Again SkyFloating, there are plenty of FACTS already written up and published online regarding the Mayan calender's from hundreds of researchers and scholars. If you choose to remain stubborn and refuse to research the facts, then don't expect the rest of us to go out of our way to help.

Google is your friend.
EDIT: to say maybe not YOUR friend, when you perceive it as "the dark side" and have a preconceived notion that all you will turn up is quacks and "snakeoil salesmen".

[edit on 14-10-2009 by Paroxysm]

Originally posted by chrisd250
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

ill add 1 million, doomsday prophesies always come and go...

I'll take that bet as long as it is payable in October 2012 because by then it will be evident. It is easy to make a bet based on the fact that you might not have to pay up - which means: You scheme to defraud, then you actually believe.
So October 31, 2012 - meet me here.

Thankyou. I'll not pretend to have the right answers, but I'm convinced that there's some significance to all of this. There's just too many ancient cultures saying similar sounding things about the same period of time to ignore it or dismiss it out of hand. We run the serious risk of being recorded in history as conceited and arrogant. We look back on earlier times and consider them primitive. They believed the earth was flat, they allowed their priests to tell them what was right and wrong and they never questioned it, even though the truth was glaring them in the face. Nowadays, we're far more intelligent. We believe every word our scientists tell us instead, and never question it. Oh how advanced we are!

In any real life situation, the more witnesses who actually saw the events you can find and question, the more chance you have of finding the truth. If you ask one person's account, and nothing else, you'll get 1 person's version of the truth. If you listen to the official version of the story, and refuse to believe witness accounts that say differently, that's a whole other kind of ignorance.

All over the world we see huge structures that we can't explain and that don't fit with our view of the level of sophistication humanity had at the time of construction. We see astrological data left by ancient cultures that far outstrips our own. In ancient texts, mixed up with cultural religious symbology, we also see numerous accounts that this period of time we are in now is going to be one of major change, and it's all pointing at around 2012ish. Many of us assumed that God or the cosmos worked on our calendar, and we assumed that it was going to be 2000. We were wrong. Quite how your logic can then extend to "therefore life will continue on as we know it unchanged with no cataclysm or asteroid or earthquake that can pose a danger to our civilisation will happen at all in the next 20 years" I really don't know. It smacks of arrogance and conceit to me, the idea that we know what's really going on in the universe and we have enough hard data to sweep all of those witness accounts aside and make up our own minds that everything's going to be fine, just fine.

We hear & see a lot about 12-12-2012. Just looking @ the numbers it seems I've seen it berfore. Predictions usually say something will happen on a date like 6-6-2006 or 7-7-2007 for example. So 12-12-2012 looks like just a number in a prediction. By the way, what time would it happen? What time zone? Anyone? Its just hype & unfortunately some folks can't help but worry with all the craziness in the world today.

reply to post by Paroxysm


Sorry for being mean. I understand your frustration with my apparent ignorance.

But please understand us...we look at all these calenders and the math employed and think: "Saying that this point means 2012 and this point means 0000 is arbitrary. Its made-up. It doesnt make sense".

And we get frustrated because people are forever spouting prophecy that is not coming true and distorting Nostradumus in order to "make it fit", etc.

But the good thing is: Most of us will still be around ATS in 2012...I am looking forward to that year...

[edit on 14-10-2009 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by Paroxysm

 

What I meant (obviously) is that no calendar that ends 2012 exists.

And I also predicted that none of the 2012-ers can explain in their own words how it ends 2012. Instead they provide a link...

It ends like this: (and gosh I want to break out in a song from "Cool Runnings" - My sense of humor/don't shoot!)
First, you are looking for an anglo saxon calendar - forgetabout it!!!!!!!
All points on this short, medium and long count calendar start at the same location and after 26K yrs end up back at square one. That's the simple.
Now, The History Channel explains this better than I do, but here goes:
The short rage is us around the sun (360 some odd days - lol)
The medium is the nibiruian system (see The Science Channel/Does our sun have a twin - google it yourself!) around our sun. (3,6K yrs/fudging)
The long is all this above around the galactic center which will point us right at the center of our galaxy and that big old black hole which sometimes spews gamma rays. Oh joy!
Now keep looking for that calendar w/the puppies on it. I like puppies.
Now, for Halloween: wanna see something scary? LOL
en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 14-10-2009 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by TheIrvy
Many of us assumed that God or the cosmos worked on our calendar, and we assumed that it was going to be 2000. We were wrong. Quite how your logic can then extend to "therefore life will continue on as we know it unchanged with no cataclysm or asteroid or earthquake that can pose a danger to our civilisation will happen at all in the next 20 years" I really don't know. It smacks of arrogance and conceit to me, the idea that we know what's really going on in the universe and we have enough hard data to sweep all of those witness accounts aside and make up our own minds that everything's going to be fine, just fine.

In the OP I said that the future is not fixed, its in fluctuation. Therefore I have no idea what is going to happen. And neither do you.