**Attention: All U.S. Military forces**

I have been reading threads on here for over a year now. Some of it is just entertainment, quite a bit of it has been educational and even more has made me think and consider things that I otherwise might not have.

I have to say though that lately the over-all theme here has been getting more and more disturbing. Maybe this isn't so new and I haven't been reading things here long enough, but I see a lot of paranoia and hate of late.

I know this is a conspiracy theory website but when I read soooo many posts from people actually wanting people to pick up arms and turn against the american government and the soldiers that serve us...I am embaressed to be a registered member here.

You are taking a staged protest that lead to violence and property destruction and turning it into the beginning of a civil war? What is wrong with you?

I DONT agree with a lot of what is going on with our government right now, but I still believe that the foundation of this country will withstand the current presidency and we will come through it intact, BECAUSE of our military and police. How dare some of you call the very people that put their lives on the line for OUR freedom traitors! You accuse the very people that protect us and our rights every day of being thugs and against the american people?

I enjoy a good debate and am always open to exploring different points of views, but some of these comments are chilling. Much more so than some riot police containing cilvil unrest.

reply to post by westcoast


Wow reading threads for a year and a member for less than a month!

You are a magician.

What's disturbing is people who ignore all the facts and all the evidence in front of them and pretend that it means nothing.

Whats real disturbing is when they don't even live in the United States at all and try to convince people who do live here that our problems are not problems.

What's real disturbing is people who would give up their rights and liberties in the name of some ellusive security and blind truth to a government that clearly can't be trusted and abuses them.

Whats real disturbing is people who would advocate this to undermine the United States for the sake of a foreign government or a paycheck.

Thankfully some people are pleased that other people are disturbed for all the wrong reasons.

It means that smart people are finally starting to do the right thing for all the right reasons.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Whats real disturbing is when they don't even live in the United States at all and try to convince people who do live here that our problems are not problems.

It is quite disturbing.

Such people are dangerous. The danger is so obvious that we are actually disturbed by them and their words - and yet they persist on inflicting them on us in spite of knowing its deleterious effects, in spite of knowing what our nation is going through. You are right in your assessment.

Troll, I say.

[edit on 27-9-2009 by Exuberant1]

Originally posted by Exuberant1

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Whats real disturbing is when they don't even live in the United States at all and try to convince people who do live here that our problems are not problems.

It is quite disturbing.

Such people are dangerous. The danger is so obvious that we are actually disturbed by them and their words - and yet they persist on inflicting them on us in spite of knowing its deleterious effects, in spite of knowing what our nation is going through. You are right in your assessment.

Troll, I say.

[edit on 27-9-2009 by Exuberant1]

They are in fact lifting my spirits friend, I know that they know they screwed up! BIG TIME! I know they are worried and they should be.
I know they don't anticipate people calling them on their deceptions and ruses. I love to deal them that bitter dissapointment.

I know certain charachters work in tandem and teams to try to give creedence to their warped messages to try to self validate it and search for lemmings to follow their herd.

Yet they preach weakness, and submission, and fear of the individual, fear of freedom, fear of those who are free.

I know they fear the free, they fear the free because they wish to subjucate the free.

I know they try to distract us with other issues in far away places that they manufacture to capture our attention, our money, even our lives to divert us from this most critical task here in our own nation and towns and homes.

I know that they are increasinly desperate to do that.

I know we are turning the tide, I know that each day the numbers of Americans who will no longer remain blind to these events are beginning to take the first steps to confront them.

I know that they are baby steps, tentative steps, awkward steps, but I know with each step they will become strides, purposeful strides, bounding strides, deliberate strides, determined strides, and as the foot falls echo throughout the land in every hill and dale I know more people will hear the thunder will hear the clarion call, will seach their hearts and their minds and remember we are AMERICANS. They will remember they have RIGHTS, they will remember we once were PROSPEROUS and what made us PROSPEROUS and they will remember what caused us to stop having RIGHTS and what stopped making us PROSPEROUS and they will turn off their TV's and they will stop listening to the sweet lies and they will stop taking more comfort in our meaningless and hollow actions thousands of miles away on FORIEGN shores, for FOREIGN people, and they will RESPOND and END THIS TYRANNY once and for all.

I am very happy that at last we can resolve to do what we should have resolved long ago. That there can be no doubt left save for the blind and those that would blind us.

I have no fear, I have no dispair, I only have hope and courage for our future, our bright future as AMERICANS who speak up and act up to uphold the CONSTITUTION and our FOUNDING PRINCIPALS.

I am very happy indeed.

Tis the despots and their agents who now tremble. And with good cause and rightly so.

reply to post by fleabit


Military is about following orders. If a CO receives orders from his 'legitimate' government that a group of people are not acting patriotically, then his or her first response will be to follow orders. I'm just doing my duty is the concept that will be followed before question your government's authority.

Paint the social picture bleak enough, and brand your targets as whatever flavor of terrorist you like, and the 'normal' men and women of the armed forces will be carting you off to reeducation camps.

It is scientifically documented that under certain conditions, people will play the out the social roles they are given. A teacher tried this experiment by splitting his students into guards and prisoners, with uniforms and confinement and all.

In a very short time the guards began to behave like the worst of what we have heard of in the past. Gentle kids became engrossed with their power and flaunted it at every turn, acting as if they were superior to the imprisoned students.

The prisoners faced much worse at the hands of their classmates who took every moment in their uniforms to berate and degrade the prisoners and acted as though this was perfectly normal behavior.

The experiment was a disasterous success and had to be canceled after two days because of emotional breakdowns (not a scientific term), and social abuses from the students and even the teacher as the warden became entrapped in the situation and only after those two days did he realize how out of control the situation became.

The experiment scientifically proved without a doubt that there is an innate behavioral mechanism in people that when placed into well developed roles (i.e. military, administrative government, local law enforcement), they will play out those roles even to extreme detriment of people who are otherwise no different outside those roles (guard/prisoner, citizen/leader, Democrat/Republican, military/any perceived threat to their country).

As long as they are wearing their uniforms and there is an unbroken chain of command (a zombie attack is a great time to have trained soldiers on your side), they WILL FOLLOW ORDERS TO THE DEATH and even their own loved ones who get in the way could face the same fate as the rest of the civilians.

If you are on the other side of that military/police barricade you are getting tear gassed whether you like it or not. Their COs determine friend or foe, and that is determined by the next up the chain of command. If there is one person looking out for their own desires over the integrity of the position, then the entire chain is compromised. Really!

They may be great people out of that uniform, but they are trained to take orders and execute them first, not to ask questions that are tantamount to refusing orders in an emergency situation. This is all documented. Honestly. They will do as they are told and by the time their morals can kick in, the damage is already done and it's too late.

I really hope you can change your mind. We are all in way over our heads, and our options as a nation are very bleak.

reply to post by Bejing


That is precisely what i mean.

Brainwashed men and women, unable to form moralistic opinions and act upon them, with an arsenal of weapons at their disposal, is a very, very dangerous thing.

I understand the chain of command and the importance of following legal orders, having been in the British Army myself, but i also understand that a soldier regardless of nationality or regiment / unit, has a GREATER duty and obligation to the PEOPLE they are sworn to defend, than they have to the unit or regiment they happen to be in.

If an illegal order is given, blindly following it, makes the soldier JUST as guilty as the issuing officer.

Claiming i was just following orders is NOT a defense against war crimes charges.

It is Unpatriotic to follow ANY order regardless of legality or morals.

It IS patriotic however, to defend the people of the country you are sworn to protect.
THE PEOPLE ARE THE COUNTRY...the rest is just dirt.

I'm from the uk never seen anything like that before ! Its like somthing out of a sci fi war film I most admit america looks like its slipping away I'd expect somthing like that in china not america times change eh?

reply to post by ItsTimeToStandUp

I for one have talked to hundreds of people, I actually work with the public and tell them on a daily basis whats going on, and they laugh, and look at me funny, I then ask them do they want to see the proof this is going on, 9 times out of 10 the answer I get is you need to stop worrying so much, Quit listening to crazy people. I then go off on them and tell them to gtfo of my country.

I feel exactly where you're coming from. I'm to the point where I don't even give a damn anymore. I absolutely hate every last one of these sheep that's around me. I used to think "oh it's not their fault, they're just victims of the mass media machine." but now it's more than obvious that they'll never be willing to accept anything other than what the amazing TV box crams down their throats. F**k 'em... every last one of 'em. I hope they all get sent to camps or fall prey to some deadly vaccine because we can do a lot more damage to our true enemy with their mass of sheeple crap out of the way. And rest assured, when the SHTF they will be in the way... and I'll be more than happy to plow through them by any means necessary. They didn't want to listen, F**K EM!

[edit on 27-9-2009 by M0n0lyth]

[edit on 27-9-2009 by M0n0lyth]

You've got the wrong military.

It's the secret army of Malta that plans to act as the "invisible hand of god."

Originally posted by GideonHM
reply to post by fleabit

 

Military is about following orders. If a CO receives orders from his 'legitimate' government that a group of people are not acting patriotically, then his or her first response will be to follow orders. I'm just doing my duty is the concept that will be followed before question your government's authority.

Paint the social picture bleak enough, and brand your targets as whatever flavor of terrorist you like, and the 'normal' men and women of the armed forces will be carting you off to reeducation camps.

It is scientifically documented that under certain conditions, people will play the out the social roles they are given. A teacher tried this experiment by splitting his students into guards and prisoners, with uniforms and confinement and all.

In a very short time the guards began to behave like the worst of what we have heard of in the past. Gentle kids became engrossed with their power and flaunted it at every turn, acting as if they were superior to the imprisoned students.

The prisoners faced much worse at the hands of their classmates who took every moment in their uniforms to berate and degrade the prisoners and acted as though this was perfectly normal behavior.

The experiment was a disasterous success and had to be canceled after two days because of emotional breakdowns (not a scientific term), and social abuses from the students and even the teacher as the warden became entrapped in the situation and only after those two days did he realize how out of control the situation became.

The experiment scientifically proved without a doubt that there is an innate behavioral mechanism in people that when placed into well developed roles (i.e. military, administrative government, local law enforcement), they will play out those roles even to extreme detriment of people who are otherwise no different outside those roles (guard/prisoner, citizen/leader, Democrat/Republican, military/any perceived threat to their country).

As long as they are wearing their uniforms and there is an unbroken chain of command (a zombie attack is a great time to have trained soldiers on your side), they WILL FOLLOW ORDERS TO THE DEATH and even their own loved ones who get in the way could face the same fate as the rest of the civilians.

If you are on the other side of that military/police barricade you are getting tear gassed whether you like it or not. Their COs determine friend or foe, and that is determined by the next up the chain of command. If there is one person looking out for their own desires over the integrity of the position, then the entire chain is compromised. Really!

They may be great people out of that uniform, but they are trained to take orders and execute them first, not to ask questions that are tantamount to refusing orders in an emergency situation. This is all documented. Honestly. They will do as they are told and by the time their morals can kick in, the damage is already done and it's too late.

Ok, dude. Seriously? Let's check this out... How many of your "guards" had actual training as prison guards regarding the legalities and customs of behavior in a detention facility? How many of your "prisoners" had actually committed a crime? How many were there through some flaq or loophole in the legal system? How many of an infinite number of other factors were not represented correctly in this sample environment? Now ask yourself why. Because it was a bunch of college kids in cop uniforms and orange jumpsuits. I'm sure there'd be different results if you replaced an ordnance disposable technician with 10 years of experience on the force with a college kid in a blast suit, too. That experiment might serve to show that people can be bastards, but that's about it.

CONTINUED IN NEXT POST

reply to post by GideonHM


BOTTOM LINE. WE ARE NOT HANDED UNIFORMS AND TOLD TO GO PLAY SOLDIER.

It is made exasperatingly clear to us from day one the penalties for criminal actions while in service to our country. Hurried, neglectful, and irresponsible execution of orders without regards to the end state or intent is a slippery path on a bad road. The military takes # like that very seriously. I know there are other military personnel on this board; back me up. How many units do you know of that would let you get away with deliberately greasing civilians in IRAQ? How many Marines and Soldiers here think it would be acceptable IN AMERICA? Honestly. I'm not talking to civilians in this post. I'm calling out any other military personnel who happen across this. I've tried. Enlighten these people. Tell them you're not the bogeyman.

It is pointless to talk about doing something. What I have seen is this. The protesters are disorganizes and completely out gunned. The PTB are organized and well equipped with the latest armor , technology, and tactical communications. They have helicopters in the sky and boots on the ground coordinating and containing a huge mass of people. People are so freaking programed! They have the best of intentions, and some of the protesters at the G20 have NO CLUE what they are out there to do, they just want to stir trouble. Protesting is the right of the American people under the 1st Amendment. TPTB have effectively taken that away by what I have seen in Pittsburgh. People are watching and are angry. The programmed and mind numbed masses are just sitting back watching the latest Drama or sports event taking place on the television. I have read somewhere that, "If you ignore your rights, They WILL go AWAY!" Those who are vigilant will prepare and those who don't care will probably die when the real revolution begins.

reply to post by Griever0311


Why are you saying MY guards and MY prisoners? This is a well documented psychological case file straight from college textbooks.

Not to mention you used more than two fallacies to try to rip apart my positions, which are not my positions at all. This was an experiment in social conditioning and you don't get it.

You will be given reasons to 'guard' and 'defend', but you will do as you are told. In the heat of a situation, you will follow orders, and you will take the actions you are told to do. Look at the G20 demonstrations. If you wore their uniform and were stationed there, you would do as your CO tells you to do.

The safety of world leaders are at stake! These people don't know what is in their best interests, and your misinterpretations of scientifically documented evidence of conformity will not change the fact that if the situation is dire enough, you will engage any perceived threat, and only afterward will you be able to counter with morals. Look at Abu Gharib and the psychotic behaviors that turned a woman in the U.S. military (among others) into a depraved, sexual, predator who still shows no remorse for her actions.

If you defend those actions, you defend torture of 'other' people than us. Many people say that terrorists don't deserve human rights, and could easily conclude that I must be a sympathiser for terror for saying that the second you hear air raid sirens, you will man whatever you are told to, and you will believe you are acting under your patriotic duties, protecting your family, friends, and your freedom as you subdue freedom of speech.

If you think that protesters are becoming a threat to themselves and others, you will act to defend yourselves, even if all they have are sticks and stones, and you have advanced weapons and crowd control devices.
Enslave the people with themselves, that is the concept behind 1984 and is very much so a reality right now, right here.

This has nothing to do with your scarecrow fallacy of a child in a bomb suit. Not to mention what was the average age of the soldiers in Vietnam? Barely trained young men with machine guns in jungles that you never leave.

Remember what I said when you are called to duty to combat domestic terrorism. I'm just glad you don't know who I am.

[edit on 27-9-2009 by GideonHM]

reply to post by GideonHM


Okay... I'm not saying it was your experiment, I used those terms because you brought up the argument to support your point. I'm just saying the mechanics behind the experiment were wrong. I'm obviously not going to change your mind regarding your perception of American troops as being mindless automatons programmed to point and shoot by the master's whip, so I'll leave it at that.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


First of all, I have been a registered member since January...not that it matters. Secondly I was born and raised in the USA, as were my parents...so I don't really see where your comments are coming from. But like pretty much everything that you say, it doesn't HAVE to make sense I guess.

What I find disturbing is someone that ignores all the evidence and the facts in front of them and twist it into something it isn't, just to further their own personal agenda.

What I find disturbing are people's total disgregard for law and order, something this country was founded on.

What I find distrubing is the call to arms, to stand up against the very military and police force that have been protecting your freedoms.

Ya know, I have read the wild stories on here and the violent comments, which seem to be common place. What I find MOST disturbing is the increasing number of people here that are bolder in their comments. I guess what it comes down to, since you want to talk about intelligence, is that dumb people are joining forces and doing all the wrong things for the wrong reasons.

You want to call yourself an American? The military is the backbone of this country, so before you start calling them traitors and telling others to take up arms against them, perhaps you should stop and think about what country you are living in. This is STILL America, and if you want to spout off about the constitution, then maybe you need some more education because it seems a lot of you are confused.

I for one support my military, support my local police force and those that believe in law/order and civility. The moment we start disregarding these basic social rules and run wild in the streets taking up arms against those that are there to protect us, is when we TRULY will have lost what is America.

Hey man i am Canadian the american constitution and the american who actually stand up for their right have my support!!! GOD BLESS AMERICA...reminds me CANADA NEEDS IT OWN UNIQUE CONSTITUTION!!! not created by some royal monarch

If this is true America...

Call your lawyer if you got "hit" but this sonic weapon.....
be the 1st and you'll have the biggest prize. $$



The OP just said it was illegal, right????
If a lawyer presents the OPs fact in court, he would win.


I mean....
Americans love to sue people right? So... At least this is an actual solid case
=)

[edit on 27-9-2009 by CanadianDream420]

reply to post by grayhawkz1


Think you'll find that we are NOT 'their' populace.

They, believe it or not, are OUR elected representatives.

I know, ironic isn't it!

You have to get away from that kind of neural programming grayhawkz1, if you keep thinking that you owe them something and not the other way around, they win you to do with as they want. Together with the rest of us.

reply to post by GideonHM


Hmm..i think i remember seeing a bit on that experiment myself...years ago wasn't it?

If memory serves correctly, didn't the students playing the role of the prison guards, become increasingly belligerent as the experiment progressed?

While the increasingly aggrieved and mistreated 'inmates', become a more cohesive grouping?

It all goes to show, that power corrupts seemingly rational and generally kind people, and can entice those wielding that power, into acts they would normally deplore. Unjust and sometimes inhuman acts.

When i was a soldier, i was trained to be part of and operate seamlessly in a unit. However, crucial to the success or failure of an effective unit, was the fact that i and my fellows were expected to be individual soldiers, capable of making unilateral decisions and acting upon them if i/we judged the situation required it.

All this talk of blindly following orders, regardless of whether or not it is a legal order or a moral order is a mindbogglingly ignorant state of mind for anyone to possess least of all a trained, responsible soldier. The old 'If i'm ordered to shoot, i'll shoot kind of rhetoric, is a classic example of transferring responsibility of one's own actions...'It's not my fault, he told me to do it...' doesn't cut it when people lose their lives or liberty.

If someone doesn't have the capacity to think for themselves, they should never be even shown a picture of a rifle, let alone get issued with one!

reply to post by spikey


I don know, the taliban seem to be doing ok against it!

Second line