More Cracks in the Obamacare Facade: No Insurance? Can't Pay Fee? Go To Jail!

reply to post by jdub297

The peole who don't work or earn enought to get insurance must pay a "fee" or "penalty" (read: TAX) between $1,800 and $3,500 (estimated) AND file a tax return. It used to be that if your income was below a certain level, you didn't have to file at all.

Boy what a great way to make sure you extract every last penny from the American population. No free lunch for anyone anymore. The internal RFID tag needed to get the medical insurance, pay your bills, get a job, go to school... is next. No wonder they are trying to make "At Home births" illegal. Chip the kid as soon as he is born! ATS

We are all screwed. I cant believe that anybody can even still to this day defend this guy and his policy. Almost all of his appointees cheated on THEIR taxes, yet not one of them served a day in jail, let alone had to even pay the interest and penalties that came along with it.

www.politico.com...

Above is the whole pdf doc. If you look past the sig, the next line states that everybody that commits a felony tax evasion is punishable to $100,000 and five years in prison. All this is doing is creating more of a gap between the "classes". There is a part in the bill that states there will be a min amount that somebody has to make in order to have to buy the health insurance. But with these penalties and the fact that not only are they going to tax the hell outa everybody, but they are considering taxing people's private health care which will eventually make people want to choose the public option even more (of course only the are only taxing the people that have big ones to start).

apnews.myway.com...

Not only is this taking away peoples rights, but this will make more people dependable on the gov in the long run. If you tax everybody to hell, eventually most people will not have the money to pay for the health care and end up being completely dependent on the gov since they will be making less than is required to purchase things and instead get free money (ie welfare and now health insurance). Doing this will make those people that are living paycheck to paycheck straight out of college end up looking at Obama as their "savior" even more because he will be the provider, further creating the gap between the haves and the have nots...in this case the haves are the ones with power, not just money. Having more people on your side that look at you as the sole provider will end up getting him re-elected. Im willing to bet that if he does get the amnesty bill that he wants he will be re-elected. And with this health care bill actually starting in 2013, they will try and push to get rid of the term limits for the prez. By 2014, not only will he have all the once illegal immigrants vote, but now all the people that cant afford their own health care and are completely dependent on the gov to pay for them.

And to those that would say "He cant get rid of the term limits", did you ever think that in a million years our government would own stock in private banks or company's? Or how bout tell someone how much money they could make? We are in a time when all things are possible with these people in office, not only the prez and dems, but the republicans got their dirty hands in on things as well. Its time to boot all of em out and start over.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

- Thomas Jefferson, Declaration of Independence

Government has become destructive and its now the RIGHT of the people to alter it and to reiturate it's priciples that we once started with.

1) Kick em all out and set term limits along with gettin rid of the pension fund.
2) Get people in there that wont sell their souls and make them answer to every vote they make as to why they went either way.
3) Party like its 1999 again because we just took our country back and WE THE PEOPLE are now in control instead of WE THE POLITICIANS.

reply to post by December_Rain


You're are correct, up to a point.

A social healthcare system, would be paid for by payed contributions in the form of a healthcare TAX!

TAX...and as you point out, if you do not pay your taxes, you face this $25,000 fine or a year in prison.

Quite how they expect to house potentially millions of people in prison for a year, is anyones guess. Also then cost of the incarceration to the state/taxpayer would be astronomical on a yearly, recurring basis.

It would outweigh the $ that are actually paid into the health system significantly...when they realise this, what will be next? Pay your taxes or you'll be executed? Certainly cheaper for the state....

Originally posted by December_Rain
Hmm..wait a minute. It does not say anything about Health care. That section is for filing tax returns, I did'nt found any Health care related stuff. Silly propoganda..check your facts before posting such a hoax threads.
[edit on 25-9-2009 by December_Rain]

I guess this video is a hoax also?

reply to post by jdub297

Did you notice Obama mentioned "food safety" in his closing address to the U.N.?

The ADM/Kellogg/Monsanto crack-down on small farmers is coming soon to a dictatorship near YOU.

No I did not know about Obama mentioning "food safety" in his closing address to the U.N. It was another DEMOCRAT, Pres. Clinton that gave Kissinger's "Food Control Plan" a healthy shove when he had Dan Amstutz, VP of Cargill write the World Trade Organization Agreement on Ag and had CEO of Monsanto, Robert Schapiro, as his foreign trade advisor, help him get the WTO and NAFTA treaties ratified.

People whine about Bush being a murderer, well Clinton is responsible for the starvation of thousands of Children thanks to the WTO and NAFTA treaties and his push for Biofuel It is funny how "production of "bioenergy" and other products such as plastics and chemicals created from agricultural waste." became energy produced from food crops.

Clinton's Today's global food crisis shows "we all blew it, including me when I was president,...Clinton also criticized the heavy U.S. reliance on a food crop, corn, to produce ethanol for fuel, which helped drive up grain prices worldwide."

As far as I am concerned Clinton and the democrats KNEW what they were doing and so does Obama. Clinton's remorse is completely false as is obvious by Hillary's push for the rest of the Ag Cartel's Agenda. "food Safety bills"

reply to post by Jim Scott

A predicted glut of doctors did not occur, now we are facing shortages of doctors. We need to produce an additional 200,000 doctors before 2020 due to the aging population.

We've got a shortage WITHOUT adding 47 million to the patient rolls.

As with any resource, access to healthcare services will become scarce
in the face of reduced out-of-pocket and unlimited access.

Just look what happens to any "giveaway" deal: a rush to take part, lines to get in, competition for position, frustration and worse as supplies are exhausted.

"While supplies last" and "limted time only" will apply to THIS "giveaway," too.

Inevitable.

jw

reply to post by jdub297


We're going to have a shortage regardless. I've heard claims that several doctors are going to close up shop if this bill passes and go into another line of work or choose early retirement.

This health care proposal is one of the biggest convoluted messes I've seen in my lifetime. I just don't see how ardent supporters of this proposal cannot read between the lines and see this for what it is. It's akin to the mafia strong-arming small businesses for protection money.

[edit on 9/26/2009 by soldiermom]

Originally posted by Daedalus24
reply to post by jdub297

 

What bill contained said wording? I'm just curious because they still have like 4 different bills floating around in the subcommittees...and what bill contains an amnesty for illegals. I'm just curious because the OP failed to provide anything more than just a few links and no actual links to the bill which the OP got his stats and "facts" from...

Everything referred to in the OP has been covered in other threads and posts with links and cites.

Have someone spoonfeed you, or search the topic.

HR 3200 is the House bill reported out last summer. The entire bill was reviewed in depth on ATS, primarily by mikerussellus and Jenna, with assistance from other members and other sources.

HR3200 ties in to many other laws already in effect, including the Tax Code. The penalty for not having insurance, the "excise" tax on insurance, and the fees and taxes imposed on employers and insurers are assessed, collected and enforced through the IRS.

The Senate's "Baucus Bill" has not been published for public review. It is still in the process of amendment (564 proposed amendments).

The "Kennedy" immigration reform bill was killed in the Bush administration, but is the framework for Obama's immigration reform. Obama made amnesty a part of his appeal to LULAC, La Raza Unida, the Hispanic Caucus, among others, during his campaign and during his term in office.

He promised that immigration "reform" would be accomplished this year, but has recently backed off to 2010. Still in time for "healthcare reform."

Have someone spoonfeed you this information, or search the topic.

As for the other "cracks" in the facade, these have also been well-covered in the media and in ATS.

Seek, and ye shall find.

jw

reply to post by Daedalus24

the reason it isn't socialized health care is because every bill that comes up in a committee gets hundreds of amendments from the Republican side.

Please identify the sections of HR3200 "amended" by Republicans.

This bill was sponsored by 2 Democrats, referred out of committee and approved by a majority of the Democrat-led House of Representatives.
Most, without reading it.

Please highlight the "Republican" language approved by the Democrats that favors insurance companies.

jw

I think the healthcare bills are really easy to understand: the government wants more control over the entire industry. They can cite cost savings or the un-insured or whatever. But, it is ultimately about getting more control. I think that is really scary and I hope nothing passes.

I talked about this earlier in another thread ill cut and paste



Truthfully i didnt have too big a problem with healthcare until they said it would be mandatory... Yeah lets fine everyone who doesnt get the public option. Its absolutely insane.
You do know why they do that right? because of emergency room costs of people who dont have insurance and then bail on the bill. So check this out ... Illegal Aliens arent covered? get emergency treatment and skip the bill! but the guy busting his balls at McDonalds for chump change has to pay 750 dollars a year if he doesnt get the public option ... absolutely rediculous

reply to post by dizzie56

Having more people on your side that look at you as the sole provider will end up getting him re-elected. Im willing to bet that if he does get the amnesty bill that he wants he will be re-elected. And with this health care bill actually starting in 2013, they will try and push to get rid of the term limits for the prez. By 2014, not only will he have all the once illegal immigrants vote, but now all the people that cant afford their own health care and are completely dependent on the gov to pay for them.

Of course, Obama is supporting the deposed Honduran president - Zelaya. He opposed term limits (contrary to the Honduran Constitution and against Honduran law) and abolished them by executive decree. He was deposed by a coalition of government, military and the citizenry for treason, who immediately called for an election to replace him.

Obama suports this manner of governing, just as he supportsVenezuela's self-annointed "President for Life" Hugo Chavez.

You get what you pay for.

jw

reply to post by lucentenigma

I guess this video is a hoax also?

No, Obama is a liar. George ( a die-hard Democrat/liberal) caught him, even had the dictionary definition on hand, and Barack did his best to mischaracterize the nature of the "fees" and "penalties" imposed for government services (a "tax" anywhere else) or for failing to accept them.

Deny ignorance.

jw

reply to post by jdub297


Just FYI my question was a retorical response to December_Rain's hoax comment.

Anyways, I posted in another thread that Obama reminds me of a car salesman.

I've been meaning to put together a thread on how many speeches Obama has given since he's been in office.

It seems like all the guy does is talk.

Maybe if he would worry less about his image he could actually get some work done (you know actually pass bills that trample our rights instead of just talking about them).

PS. No offense to any car salesmen here on ATS.



[edit on 26-9-2009 by lucentenigma]

Got to keep the manpower fleshed out.

www.prideestore.com...

Its a variation on indentured servitude. Only in this case it's prison labor.

They make all sorts of FUN PRODUCTS!!!


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c588d48127d1.jpg[/atsimg]






[edit on 26-9-2009 by RoofMonkey]

All this talk about misdemeanors, doctors closing up shop, indentured servitude, what a joke.

Oh, I'm so mad that I'm going to HAVE to get health insurance, ooooh, poor me.

Do you have car insurance..? Homeowners insurance..? Renters Insurance...? Unemployment insurance..? Against the FDIC too I suppose.

Knock it off already. Stop all the WHINING!!!!

Health insurance for all, sure, a terrible concept. How could they!!

a bankruptcy is filed roughly every 8 seconds in this country because of medical bills, insurance companies take the premiums, then deny approximately 40% of all claims, while getting big subsidies from the government.

The guarantee emergency treatment (Reagan's Law), IS NOT health care for all, it's emergency treatment, that's it.

Quit your bitching, it's not a loss of liberty, that's a stupid thing to say, it's smart and responsible and right for this country.

Bunch of whiners.

reply to post by lucentenigma

Obama reminds me of a car salesman.

It seems like all the guy does is talk.

He'll say anything to "make the sale." Regardless of whether the product is the best for you or the best of other alternatives.

He knows he can "close" the sale in 'weak moments' or with 'high pressure,' hence the crisis = opportunity mantra in the administration.

Ends justify means 100%.

jw

[edit on 26-9-2009 by jdub297]

reply to post by uaocteaou

a bankruptcy is filed roughly every 8 seconds in this country because of medical bills, insurance companies take the premiums, then deny approximately 40% of all claims, while getting big subsidies from the government.

Perhaps if government healthcare advocates would quit using outright lies and unfounded myths, there would be more reasonable discussion of the relative costs and benefits.

When government or Obama advocates resort to false premises, they write themselves out of the argument altogether.

Prove: "a bankruptcy is filed roughly every 8 seconds in this country because of medical bills"

and

"insurance companies ... deny approximately 40% of all claims"

for starters.

We'll take up the other distortions later.

Deny ignorance.

jw

p.s.: you can not prove the above 2 contentions; they are false

Originally posted by uaocteaou
`
Do you have car insurance..? Homeowners insurance..? Renters Insurance...? Unemployment insurance..? Against the FDIC too I suppose.

it's not a loss of liberty, that's a stupid thing to say, it's smart and responsible and right for this country.

Bunch of whiners.

Is car insurance mandatory to have? Answer...no. You dont have to drive.
Is homeowners insurance mandatory to have? Answer...no. If you pay for the house in cash or have it paid for you dont have to have it.
Renters insurance?...Only if you elect to.
Unemployement insurance?...that is mandatory and comes out of your check weekly/biweekly whatever in the form of a tax. Can you elect out of it if you dont want to? No.

All of the above dont have any financial penatlies that come with not having the said insurance when you choose not to have it in the case that you are not required. Health insurance will be required no matter what. How is that not a loss of liberty? We no longer have a choice in having something that we dont want.

Granted, i want to drive therefore i have to have insurance, but that is still able to be taken off the books in the state. If you dont believe me, Florida was threatening the insurance companies in just the last year or so about Floridians not having to carry insurance. If you dont have the money to buy a house outright, the loan company you go thru will most likely make you get insurance...but then again, you dont have to buy a house if you dont want to. Renters insurance is another thing that you dont have to have all the time. Ive rented at several different apartments in this state and have never been required to carry renters insurance.

Theoretically, having to pay for unemployment insurance every week out of my check is also a loss of liberty. In fact, i would rather not pay it and not be eligible to recieve said benefits in case i got laid off. Id rather find a way myself to get out of a situation than to rely on the government's help.

Explain to me, please, how the government's forcing me to carry insurance is not a loss of liberty? I have no choice in my decision in carrying it because i will be penalized for not doing so.

this was from thefreedictionary.com

a. The condition of being free from restriction or control.
b. The right and power to act, believe, or express oneself in a manner of one's own choosing.
c. The condition of being physically and legally free from confinement, servitude, or forced labor.

Due to just the definition of liberty, me no longer being able to freely express myself in a manner of my own choosing, i have no liberty. Choosing freely is being able to do something without penalty. I honestly dont see where it isnt a loss of my liberty due to me not being able to have a choice without a severe penalty being attached to one the consequences.

I say we all just quit working and then its not a problem. we will get free food, free housing, free health insurance, and not a care in the world.