More Cracks in the Obamacare Facade: No Insurance? Can't Pay Fee? Go To Jail!

Originally posted by sdcigarpig
I am just wondering how long till the first lawsuit is brought up on the validity of that a person does not have a job, getting very low pay and has no means to get health insurance, due to the cost? And what the process would be, as this makes absolutely no sense. I am living from paycheck to paycheck, it is spent before I get to it, as I am taxed heavily, have no health insurance what so ever. I work less hours than a part time person, so now I have to spend what little money I have to get health insurance, that will not cover me?

In a case like yours (speculation) there will be a safety net designed to aid very low income non-full time workers, factors such as your cost of living and whether or not you are a minority will will likely determine what you will pay for coverage if anything.

Good luck to anyone who will attempt to sue the federal government. (it wont happen... EVER)

It has yet to be determined but there is going to have to be a final version of legislation that will designate levels of income and amounts that people will have to pay. Number of dependents etc will all be factors.

They can play with words all they want, the bottom line is that everyone who can pay will be forced to period.

If you think this is going to be a free ride, and socialized health care means you can get free or reduced cost coverage you'd be a fool... Especially if you are working in a full time job of virtually any kind.

To put it bluntly, if you are currently paying taxes every year without having 100% of it refunded to you in a tax return, and you do not have any health care coverage, you will be forced to get it or pay fines, penalties and perhaps even be sent to jail.

There is no free ride.

There is no freedom in this reform plan.

[edit on 25-9-2009 by Walkswithfish]

reply to post by December_Rain
You haven't read the health care bill, have you?

The peole who don't work or earn enought to get insurance must pay a "fee" or "penalty" (read: TAX) between $1,800 and $3,500 (estimated) AND file a tax return. It used to be that if your income was below a certain level, you didn't have to file at all.

Your participation must be disclosed on your tax return!

How do you think people pay the tax/fee for their care?

Who do you think collects it?

Deny ignorance.

jw

reply to post by Walkswithfish
Finally!

Someone else can read and think for themselves!

It is a tax, but more importantly it is all about taking a person's right to choose not to have coverage away. Some young people, perhaps just out of college or working in a lower paying job where they are literally living from paycheck to paycheck and cannot afford health insurance will be forced to get coverage that will leave them broke, these are the people who will learn what they lost here first. Freedom!

Many of us have posted exactly the same understanding of the "Reform" package.

Sadly, it seemed that many of the members posting on other threads about reform have accepted that it is government's DUTY to take care of them, make their choices FOR them, and deny everyone else the right to CHOOSE!

s4u

jw

I don't have health insurance. I pay cash when I go to the doctor. Because I do this, my doctor cuts me a break and I usually get any prescriptions I need for free. Because I have no insurance, I have no one telling me I can't get this treatment or that prescription or that test. It is MY choice.

Yes, I've had insurance in the past - back in the days when the only insurance available was a "Cadillac" plan and my employer footed the bill. I felt I had the same freedom in my healthcare then.

Since employees started having to pay for their own coverage, and it is no longer an employee "benefit", there are co-pays, restrictions, referrals, all sorts of crazy rules. And it usually cost me half my paycheck.

My friend's husband still has a rare "Cadillac" plan through his employer. He doesn't pay for his insurance, but does have restrictions, co-pays, and deductibles, though not as bad as most.
They have six children and he is the sole bread-winner, working 70 hours a week.
If this passes, his "Cadillac" plan will be gone, and if his employer wants to still provide him with his insurance as a benefit, it will be considered taxable income, and he will be put into another tax bracket, causing him even more financial loss.

For the record, I don't have auto insurance either. It is not a law in my current state of residence. Even when I had purchased a car with a large loan and it was required, I canceled it three months later. I paid off the loan in 5 years, no one ever contacted me about not having insurance. The bank didn't come take the car away.

I'm over 25, own a home, with a perfect driving record. My rates were sky high because I didn't have enough of a credit history or an insurance history. People with very bad driving records, duis, owning nothing were getting rates around 50% lower than I because they had excellent credit.

Auto insurance rates were once based on one's driving record and experience. Now they are based on one's credit history.

Medical coverage was once a benefit provided by employers and it pretty much covered whatever you needed for medical care.

My mother's "Cadillac" policy which carried over into her retirement was forcibly replaced when she turned 62. She then had to purchase supplemental insurance for her Medicaire. And when once she paid $2.00 a month for her prescriptions, she then has to pay almost $200 per month for the same meds, in addtion to incredibly high deductibles, co-pays, fighting about who covers what, who pays what and when, one gives the ok and the other puts on the brakes, etc., etc.

They need to look at what is really wrong with healthcare.

I could go on and on about this...families having to get divorced because the medical insurance they worked and paid big bucks for wouldn't cover cancer treatments for their 12 year-old son, people who have had successful businesses and paid years for insurance only to be denied heart surgery...all so they could qualify for Medicaid, which will pay for such treatments. Which I don't understand yet, because Medicaid pays at a discounted rate and usually takes a long time to pay.

Medical practices receive kick-backs from the drug companies when they prescribe their medication of the month. Doctors touted as the best in their profession performing unecessary procedures and pushing these procedures the most to patients with Medicaid.

AND the quality of healthcare has gone down drastically in many places.

If our healthcare system is so wonderful, why do so many go to Canada for surgeries? Why do we buy our presciptions from other countries? My grandfather drives eight hours to Canada for his prescriptions because it costs him less, travel included, than buying them here in the US.

You'd think they'd try to fix what is broken first. That might actually free up some money for people who need coverage through the government because they are out of work , etc.

reply to post by kyred

Why all this drama for a system that won't be put into effect until 2013?

Oh, because some parts apply right away. Like the excise tax, "platinum policy" tax, and equalization "fees" that will be used to generate the cash to begin implementation of the rest of the package!

Gotta get that revenue flowing ASAP. The "benefits" will come later.

Right.

jw

reply to post by Champagne

Mom's so called SS will not pay for all her medical needs and I can only bring in around $1000 a monthly. There is no way in hell I could afford health insurance!! Fortunately, I have a compassionate doctor who charges very low fee for self pay clients and I can pay it out @ $20 a month. But, I only go to see her if it becomes necessary - as it did this last week.

Don't tell your mom (Obamites surely won't), but the reform plan will LOWER old-age medical benefits $100,000,000,000.00 to cover the cost of "expanded" coverage.

Don't believe me?

Google "'Medicare Advantage' and healthcare reform"

Obama won't say this. Congress won't say this. BUT, the CBO, an agency responsible for estimating costs of new laws (usually WAY low) says it will.

jw

reply to post by crimvelvet

No wonder the insurance companies are not screaming. You WILL HAVE TO pay them whether you want to or not. You will not have the choice. At the rate they are going we might just as well be slaves...

So much for "free Healthcare" it should be called the "health Insurance rip off bill" so it matches the "Food Safety Con Job bill"

So much for our "options."

Did you notice Obama mentioned "food safety" in his closing address to the U.N.?

The ADM/Kellogg/Monsanto crack-down on small farmers is coming soon to a dictatorship near YOU.

jw

A very similar provision existed in the house bill as a 2.5% income tax surcharge for failure to buy insurance and I argued at the time that failure to pay that income tax surcharge could likely lead to jail time. I guess that assertion wasn't so 'silly', as one poster put it, afterall. More like 'obvious', I would think.

I guess I'm just surprised people are only just now catching onto this. These proposals potentially place a terrible burden on people who are struggling to get by, many of whom will inevitably not qualify for the exemptions that will be made for low-income citizens. Oh well. They can always drop the apartment rent or the house payment and go live in a tent to cover the cost of health insurance. But hey, at least it'll be 'free'

reply to post by vor78

A very similar provision existed in the house bill as a 2.5% income tax surcharge for failure to buy insurance and I argued at the time that failure to pay that income tax surcharge could likely lead to jail time. I guess that assertion wasn't so 'silly', as one poster put it, afterall. More like 'obvious', I would think.

Even as people are just now coming around to discover the implications of the house bill and the senate bill, Pelosi, Obama et al STILL deny that there's any tax increase at all!

(who's "silly" now?)

jw

i am a disabled veteran and i do not plan to buy health insurance.

Because i am on a veterans pension i do not pay taxes.
As the veterans pension is not counted as income. This means i have $0 income.

So the government ether treats me at a VA hospital or they can throw me in jail and pay even more for my treatment.

Or they can pay for my health insurance (likely cheaper for the government)

So i win any way the government wants to play it.

reply to post by ANNED
No doubt there are certain niches that citizens may fall into and actually come out ahead.

Even millions of non-citizens.

Real "reform" should focus and prioritize on those who can benefit the most. People with satisfactory health care shouldn't be tinkered with.

jw

See, this is why, me, a disabled vet receiving monetary benefits from this most gracious and glorious government has suggested to my wife that she needs to open her own bank account and have direct deposit in said account. Lord help us if we have joint bank account and she fails to live up to the government standards and we both suffer the consequences. One for all and all for one and all that stuff, but you see what I am saying? If she suffers, I can make up the difference on my own, to her advantage if we are separate entities.

Alright, debtors prison! I guess all those stacking modular supermax prisons are going to find some some way to justify their expense. I guess I'll be meeting some of you guys after all because I'll be damned if I'm going to buy insurance, it's a thinly veiled protection racket. Requiring folks to buy it is nothing short of facism, the literal no kidding real deal facism.

This whole thing is such a joke.
They keep calling it health care. That is complete BS.

It's health insurance. If you cannot afford it, it will be provided for you.
Who the hell is going to pay the deductible?
How about the co-pays?
If you are forced to get health insurance, does that mean you can run down to the doctor and it's covered? Hell NO! You have to pay the deductable first.

What's the matter with people that think they support this crap. Is their brain disconnected or something?

This is just a scam. Again. Somemore.
They have not broken the middle class as much as they want to yet.
They will keep coming with the crap until they do.

It's either stand up and fight, or go down hard. There is no free ride on this anymore.

Perhaps one way to reduce the cost of healthcare is to increase the number of doctors. Congress needs to fund the production of more doctors. A predicted glut of doctors did not occur, now we are facing shortages of doctors. We need to produce an additional 200,000 doctors before 2020 due to the aging population. Congress has followed the recommendations of the American Medical Association and the Institute of Medicine, which predicted a glut of doctors. That glut did not occur.

If you go to small town America, you will find doctors who must visit these areas occasionally because there are no local doctors. Other areas have very old doctors who manage to take care of the locals.

Health care may be reduced by the sheer availability of doctors. Supply and demand. Are we causing our own problem? If Congress can't manage the doctor population, do you think we need them managing the economy? That's why we created the Federal Reserve.

www.usatoday.com...

If you're too broke for private insurance, and cant afford the tax.. you literally get tossed into Obamas "no option" plan..

Once sick in jail, the govt has "no option" but to treat you..

Every American will get free health care, they just might not be free when they get it.

Originally posted by ANNED
i am a disabled veteran and i do not plan to buy health insurance.

Because i am on a veterans pension i do not pay taxes.
As the veterans pension is not counted as income. This means i have $0 income.

So the government ether treats me at a VA hospital or they can throw me in jail and pay even more for my treatment.

Or they can pay for my health insurance (likely cheaper for the government)

So i win any way the government wants to play it.

ya, the people with no income seems to win all the time!!
we have an income, in the past few decades it's been really rather rare that we could afford our health care....although we can always afford to pay the taxes, so others can have it!! even when we had insurance, the cost was still too high, but well, to be honest, the cost of living period was too high!!
I've sat down a few times with pen and paper and well, I could never figure out how we were supposed to pay for it all! always ended up in the red long before the necessary bills were met.

so, now, us earning the income we have been earning the past couple decades will be leading us to jail time? kept telling people that I felt that they were making a slave class, and well, no one wanted to listen, well here ya go!! a whole little section of people that will have no choice, either bow down, break a couple of kneecaps so you can not have an income also, or wait to be hauled off to the nearest slave camp!

this has been coming down the pike for the past few decades, but as long as they kept most of the people happy, well, no one cared. both republcians and dems have been in office, and they've only built on their plan, not one of them attempted to divert the course. so all the anti-lib crap is a little off base, both parties have built this up!

reply to post by Jim Scott

actually, I think there might be enough doctors, it's just that well....society is now filled with people who think they are entitled to great pay for that little piece of paper they are given after college, doctors are no different, they'll opt to work a little harder and become specialists in areas were the pay is highest!
I think it's more the general practice, family doctors that we are lacking.

kind of like how alot of the teachers and such decided to go into the financial sector, because it paid so much more.

reply to post by jdub297


What bill contained said wording? I'm just curious because they still have like 4 different bills floating around in the subcommittees...and what bill contains an amnesty for illegals. I'm just curious because the OP failed to provide anything more than just a few links and no actual links to the bill which the OP got his stats and "facts" from...

reply to post by j2000


the reason it isn't socialized health care is because every bill that comes up in a committee gets hundreds of amendments from the Republican side. Of course they can't simply say *screw you insurance companies* because the health care industry, big pharma, and the health insurance companies are incredibly powerful and will always get their way. If you want to be pissed off at anyone, be angry at the insurance lobbyists, not at the president or the congressmen that want healthcare reform.