A response to population crisis fanatics

reply to post by elfie


Thanks Elfie...

That's the thing, they run a round like the sky is falling telling us to not have kids, keep us working and in fear like a catastrophe is coming.

And I'm smart and i'm a designer, but i'm not some Bio Engineer or one of the most Brilliant Minds on the Planet.

I'm just bright enough to know a lie when I hear one

If I know of all these existing technology that can enter a phase of utilization now that can solve our problems, or be complimented for a few original ideas...

Then surely, the Whole of Mankind can find and build solutions other than depopulation.

I'm a dork on the Internet that reads allot and I know of good simple solutions to many problems. How much of a crisis can this really be?

Originally posted by Maslo
I fully agree with mopusvindictus that the only place where birth control is needed is third world countries. Developed countries have opposite problem.

I also agree that bad resource utilisation is caused by human greed, but i dont have faith in those alternative economy systems (resource based etc). You have to force people to work, or they won't.

The bottom line is, we need to somehow achieve slow growth or stagnation. Quick growth or reduction leads to poverty and problems.

THANK YOU

is it so bad to say straight up that Americans not having babies is not the answer to the problems in AFRICA

Why do I have to feel guilt about this, about how much we eat when we send tons of food and aid overseas, food ROTS before we can eat it or ship it, we have water out the wazzooo

Why the hell should I stop having kids and a family when I go outside and there are friggin Elk jumping over my fence... Food, a damn Turkey went running over my roof last week, scared the hell out of me i should have shot it but my freezer is FULL

I'm not supposed to say this stuff, but what can I do? Why should I be told to live a lesser life, give away whatever I have not have kids... while in the 3rd world they don't have sewage in some places or irrigation like it's MY FAULT

The basic thing..IF we don't match them in population we can NEVER afford to help them, it's insane... the idea of help is I should die, not have a family and send my life savings overseas so they can have 7 children come here and build a hut on my grave?

If my money spent was even simply not spent STUPIDLY I am a Human, I like to help people... But they airlift in crackers and cheese or whatever they do...

My tax money goes 10x more to building weapons systems they then buy and shoot each other in the face with... it's the sickest stupidest cycle that can be imagined, it's like we have lost our minds...

"just a dollar a day can save a child" so you send your dollar and then us and the Russians supply weapons and the kid watches his mom get raped in Darfur and we drop crackers to feed him while he sits over a corpse ... and My Letter is supposed to make him feel better

"I sent you a 1.00 today and the USA is dropping in Cheese...best of luck,O btw this is a picture of me in my BMW"

Then they tell ME to use Birth Control to control the population crisis.

It seriously is like they have Iq's bellow 70

"don't waste your food there are starving children in Africa"

What should I do? Throw a 3/4 eaten piece of Chicken into a ziplock and mail it?

"don't have children the world is running out of resources"

Sure in 3000 years when palo verde Nuclear reactor melts down if America doesn't have a viable solution for my lights my ancestors might be SOL...

"there is Global warming"

Sure record low temp by me is -30 F (without windchill )in January... at this rate in 720 years I might not need a jacket in August, you now I go to the beach on vacation and really, the Oceans are just boiling away...

It just blows my mind... they CARE so much about Africa

"They have no water"

Sure the Russians can drill Miles into the earth and Pump a black gooey substance that they can only find somewhere at a depth that... we get reports in here "the screams of hell" on audio from Russian drillers... and then pipe this junk... all the way to Europe....

But with 7000 Trillion tons of ice laying on the surface covering half the Country... they can't afford to build a really Long water pipe...

Then these same jerks, these outrageous liars and phoneys... have the nerve to tell me, I shouldn't have kids because of some imaginary crisis

I'm being funny because... it's INSANE

All I can do is Laugh that some people in here, all over the world are convinced we are running out of water... I want to curse...but I can't...

"We are running out of Water?" Desalinization has been around for a century... 2/3rds of the Earth is Covered in water...

And people turn on the News... and watch TV and Believe this crap?

People watch TV and a Install Low flush toilet handles that you can't even get a Turd down with...so you flush 3x instead... and waste 2x as much water... believe it's because of a "water shortage" Not a Govt too cheap and war mongering to build a new damn pipe or reservoir... Then they set their alarms and get up and drive 20 minutes and GO BOATING THE NEXT DAY....

Every Single American with a low flow shower head and low flush toilet deserves a dunce cap...









[edit on 25-9-2009 by mopusvindictus]

Originally posted by mopusvindictus
I go out my door...

There are 300 plus miles of national forest one way and another 300 miles the other way 95% uninhabited by human life, this is in the Continental USA

You have a BIASED perspective.

Have you been to Asia?

Do You know what it's like to be in a place where they actually have large amounts of population?
Do you even live in a megacity?

I've been to Thailand to be a monk. Tourist guides there tell me there are no more pristine jungles, no more monkey, no more tigers. In fact I was in a small town, and felt like I was in an American suburb, people playing the same video games (cellphone ringtone of machinegun fire) at internet cafe.

They've eaten everything their jungle had to provide, whats left be small insects not worth eating, and birds too hard to catch. as well as plenty domsetic of dogs and chickens. Ya there still be some plant life, but I did go to a national park, and jungles were strangely quiet.

Thailand isn't even known for being overpopulated and yet they've managed to eradicate most of their wildlife by clearing jungles for plowing agriculture which produces far less food.

There really isn't that much room.

You say Alaska and Canada even Greenland. Have you been there? Do you have any idea what it's like when it's -40 below in the day time and you gotta stay warm? Sipping on some pine needle tea, and eating pine bark bread.

Ya Canada's great. I guess you could call that luxury. But what if someone tried to farm there? or they already lumberjacked most big trees. there wouldn't be enough trees to go around, so everyone would freeze to death. To harvest pine bark the tree has to be more than a foot wide, that be about a 100 years of growth.
. Plowing agriculture is one of the most destructive and high energy forms of food growing after slash and burn. Seedball forest gardening be sustaining method that even birds use (eat berry then defecate, feces be act as seedball). In fact I've found that birds are probably one of the best contributors to repopulating wastelands like those between highways -- humans being some of the worst by destroying what little grows in cities by mowing.

But Greenland, really think about it, you're on a glacier, the only thing you can see in either direction is Ice. What are you gonna do to eat? Seals are only near the shore, so that don't count. You can't eat snow. If you plan to grow stuff in containers that requires transporting large amounts of equipment which is not self-sustaining.

realistically, at 7 billion people, and with all earths land (including arctic canada) minus greenland and antarctica there be 4 acres per person.

a quarter acre be necessary for human to live on arable land, perhaps an eighth of an acre in a jungle. But where will the wildlife go? will there be any?

Living in a megacity be one of the loneliest, most toxic vocations ever. I'm in Toronto and I know it's one of the best, perhaps most eco friendly multi cultural mega cities on the planet. yet it still toxic and the only people that seem to enjoy it are so heavily mind controlled they aren't aware of alternatives.

crowded places of silent people brushing by each other.
sure everyone be polite an courteous and if you really wanted to, could talk to someone in the street. But will you ever see that person again? probably not. So isn't talking to them just a waste of time? so everyone goes about silently.

Making killing people legal could certainly improve the population situation.
The judicial system be mainly beneficial for royal government officials.
The people are who are being defended against.
And really it's just a monopoly on violence held by the royal government.

they don't want you using their product, they patended violence, it's their copyright, if you use violence, that infringes on their monopoly, so they forcibly confine you, which they also have a monopoly on. since ordinary people aren't allowed to forcibly confine each other.

this not holographic system if not every element has all components and abilities.
[edit on 25-9-2009 by lowki]

forest garden social village be holographic system.
every social village can do whatever they want in their forest garden.
once the population reaches over say 90, then the village splits, a new village be built, just like biological cells or nuclear atoms.

[edit on 25-9-2009 by lowki]

[edit on 25-9-2009 by lowki]

Still my favorite opening titles ever (and there is nothing about cannibalism, no). The changes mankind has gone through in the last century are breathtaking if nothing else...

reply to post by mopusvindictus

is it so bad to say straight up that Americans not having babies is not the answer to the problems in AFRICA

Not at all especially if you understand what is happening in Africa and WHY.

First the people in Africa have large families because they need the labor on their farms. Second USAID WHO and the UN are NOT help those in Africa. The plan is to KEEP Africa from advancing to first world status. Bankers and the UN lure the countries into the "green revolution" where governments take out loans and farmers mortgage their farms to buy "modern supplies - fertilizer, pesticides, herbicides and GMO seed. Unfortunately the vast profits the UN/USDA/corporate salesmen promised do not materialize and the farmers go bankrupt and so do their governments.

The whole over population hoopla is the UN and bankers blowing smoke up our arses so the Political Activists do not figure out the UN, USDA and USAID is deliberately conning third world people so they can steal their land and leave them to starve.

According to a study by Jose Romero and Alicia Puyana carried out for the federal government of Mexico, between 1992 and 2002, the number of agricultural households fell an astounding 75% - from 2.3 million to 575, 000

In India - the largest sustained waves of suicides in human history

the full toll—surely among the largest sustained waves of suicides in human history—is becoming apparent. And as Sainath emphasizes, these numbers still underestimate the disaster, since women farmers are excluded from the official statistics... It is important that the figure of 150,000 farm suicides is a bottom line estimate.... As Professor Nagaraj puts it: "There is likely to be a serious underestimation of suicides...what has driven the huge increase in farm suicides, particularly in the Big Four or ’Suicide SEZ’ States? "Overall," says Professor Nagaraj, "there exists since the mid-90s, an acute agrarian crisis. That’s across the country. In the Big Four and some other states, specific factors compound the problem.... Cultivation costs have shot up in these high input zones, with some inputs seeing cost hikes of several hundred per cent... Meanwhile, prices have crashed, as in the case of cotton, due to massive U.S.-EU subsidies to their growers. All due to price rigging with the tightening grip of large corporations over the trade in agricultural commodities." alternatives-international.net...

“We must grow GMO crops to feed the starving millions” is a barefaced lie. Charitable instincts are not manifested by these people. They are driven by profit. If existing food production doesn’t get to those in desperate need, why would genetically engineered food get there? This ‘feed the starving millions’ mantra is like all the industry mantras - diametrically opposed to reality. Designed to obscure the truth. The real biotech agenda is total control over the global food supply.
Which is why the Pentagon has contributed vast sums to the industry.

You don’t need to be Einstein to figure out how to target certain countries, certain regions - to turn off the food. This is happening, right now! And the humanitarian organisations that use a lot of money to feed hungry people - they are facing a crisis. Soaring prices mean they are able to buy much less food.

This whole dreadful situation is the inevitable end game of a process begun when global corporations and compliant governments set about converting agriculture from a biodiverse family affair, into vast broad acre chemically dependent monocultures. Hundreds of millions family farmers since WWII have been dispossessed. The ‘Green Revolution’ was a most appalling fraud on our planet! As is today’s biotech ‘revolution’.
Tasmanian times

Then the World bank or IMf comes in to "bail them out" with strings attached to the loans called Structural Adjustment Policies.

Structural Adjustment Policies are economic policies which countries must follow in order to qualify for new World Bank and International Monetary Fund (IMF) loans and help them make debt repayments on the older debts owed to commercial banks, governments and the World Bank. Although SAPs are designed for individual countries but have common guiding principles

Balancing national budgets can be done by raising taxes, which the IMF frowns upon, or by cutting government spending, which it definitely recommends. As a result, SAPs often result in deep cuts in programmes like education, health and social care, and the removal of subsidies designed to control the price of basics such as food and milk. So SAPs hurt the poor most, because they depend heavily on these services and subsidies.

By devaluing the currency and simultaneously removing price controls, the immediate effect of a SAP is generally to hike prices up three or four times, increasing poverty to such an extent that riots are a frequent result.

reply to post by mopusvindictus


One word: Logistics.

#1 Supplying food.
#2 Finite resources.
#3 Waste.

How much room is available is moot. We already have a garbage patch twice the size of Texas floating in the Pacific Ocean. Where are we going to put all the trash for a few billion more people?

It doesn't matter if there's a billion gallons of fresh water available in Greenland. I'm sure Pluto has a lot of fresh frozen water too, but neither is going to help some parched kid who is about to die because they can't get fresh water. It's not about how much is available as how much people actually have access to - what is reasonably available.

en.wikipedia.org...

The planet is FINITE:
www.storyofstuff.com...

I hope your children live healthier lives than we... But since you figure everything will magically work out, somehow, I doubt they will.

www.naturalnews.com...

We don't need to kill each other, we need to live how to live sustainable lives and then grow from there. Quality of life will always be more important to me than the quantity of life.

Venus may be our closest neighbor, but it also has a surface temperature of 460C. Sure the journey may be similar in time to get there, but the multitude of other complications make is a ridiculous comparison. Nothing like getting to the new world and having to terraform an entire freaking planet.



**LANGUAGE WARNING**


[edit on 10/1/09 by Angry Danish]