A response to population crisis fanatics

Originally posted by mopusvindictus

Drought in Africa... what? We can't hook up a Nuclear power plant to a massive desalinization system? What stops that? Greed? No one wants to pay for it?

You hit the nail on the head with your posts. I would dare to go one step further than greed. Think caste system, if your grandfather was destitute each generation there after will be destitute forever. A man in Ghana had invented a means of harnessing the energy created by ocean waves that could power a village but he was a threat to the status quo, the caste system and yes to the greed (of politicians and companies), so he had to be eliminated. Another Alternative Energy Inventor Killed?

So I agree it's not about the means not being present to solve the ills of the world it's about the desire of the few not to solve the ills of the world for their own agenda.




[edit on 23-9-2009 by Chai_An]

Population crisis is not a crisis because of lack of resources, but because of their bad utilization. We simply cannot educate people and build infrastructure so quickly. That does not make it any less of a crisis tough.

Originally posted by Maslo
Population crisis is not a crisis because of lack of resources, but because of their bad utilization. We simply cannot educate people and build infrastructure so quickly. That does not make it any less of a crisis tough.

That's good that we are too dumb to educate ourselves how to destroy the ecology quickly. There are other creatures living on this planet that need certain conditions to survive and Man is not going to change them. Many of them have a greater value to the Nature than Homo stupidus.

reply to post by DataWraith


Thank You data, it really astonishes me that while so many people scream about race in the forums or bigotry, at the same time many have decided that "hating people in general particularly stupid people" well that's just fine for some reason

You mention wilderness and the UK

I agree it seems like your govt is more into making every corner a reality show with it's money than expanding your horizons.

Really we scream about over population...

But look at the cost of the War in Iraq and the put together the combined spending of the UK and USA, i've actually used this figure because it is so vast to demonstrate how we could have a colony on Mars by now..

But applied to the Earth, the defense budgets, the spying budgets, the police budgets...


we are talking like 20 Trillion dollars over the last 10 years give or take a year...

That's hundreds of cruise ships for transports... maybe 20 decent sized artificial islands (hopefully built southwards and out into the Atlantic), beach fronts and skyscrapers.... mini paradises stringing out south of England

Enough left over money for green energy projects, new farms, a wildlife preserve or 20 lol

roughly 20 Trillion or so on Death and Slavery

Now

A Carrier Battle group costs about 60 Billion to build full ships, planes etc... and quarters 45,000 people

The Israelis are building their artificial islands at about 1.5 Billion a sq Kilometer each sq Kilometer holding maybe 20,000 people.

Each Trillion we spent on Death, could with a bit of ambition build, an Island the size of Manhattan complete with hundreds of ships, some limited military defense, nuclear power buildings, sky scrapers

we are talking about a TRILLION dollars each, the new Freedom tower costs 3 Billion? I'm comparing carrier battle groups that hold 45,000 people when in reality, we are talking about tankers and cruise ships that cost 1/5th as much to build.

We are being robbed

Robbed so badly it's not even comprehensible.

Places like the UK where there is actual land limitation should be the new frontiers right now and you get NOTHING

One day I will visit London in 20 years and Every person in the UK will live in one big building under 24/7 surveillance, 25,000 people per bloody flat, the building under terrorist threat from every nation on earth because everyone lives there and the whole place will smell like Curry because every floor will have an Indian Flat where 50,000 people from India constantly cook at 2x the population density as the rest of the Flats... And when you turn on the tele at night someone will make you feel guilty about "how good" you have it compared to the poor Indians in the flat next door to you The Queen however will live on the Death Star which will orbit the Earth threatening the world with annihilation like a 2nd moon

reply to post by piddles


Relevant?

If we Breed there is NO choice but to change things...

You don't get it, they don't want the population to grow because if it does they can't control it any more... factions and groups and break down of anything they could consider social norms...

They want the numbers Low enough to subjugate with modern technology.

You might have the ability to monitor people, but monitor and police Billions... heck no, who's going to field the calls? Especially if the bulk haven't been "educated" into following the machine?

As far as building 12 new LA's

They could build an LA Every YEAR at current military spending levels

Originally posted by DeadCuriousCat
reply to post by mopusvindictus

 

Our first fire was a slow fire.... But....Eventually everything burned.

Its time for internal exploration, the external is nothing but an illusion. Any philosophical man worth his salt has been saying the same since the dawn of man and recently our science has began to prove this with our increased understanding (and misunderstanding) of quantum mechanics.

Or...................... you can just consume and plunder like a festering virus on the universe.

Oh well, the road to hell needs to be paved by someone. Preach on brother Columbus.!!!

I always wished I was born in an era of exploration actually

But I dislike the human virus comparison

If the Universe was an organism and we were a virus... we would have at this time managed to infect, one 1/1000th of a single cell

Far from a threat to the Universe

reply to post by I_am_Spartacus


I love that drive!

I actually live right off old route 66

Have you ever driven through Kansas LOL

Corn, corn, corn.... Girl holding corn, corn, corn, corn, corn.....

It's surreal, it never ends... god can you even imagine ...I mean we do , we supply 1/3 of the worlds food... Imagine if they built Kansas up with food towers.

Certainly given existing technology, food doesn't need to be an issue

reply to post by Maslo

Population crisis is not a crisis because of lack of resources, but because of their bad utilization. We simply cannot educate people and build infrastructure so quickly. That does not make it any less of a crisis tough.

You made the mistake of think the UN, Rockefeller, Maurice Strong and the World Bank WANT to improve the lives of people in Third World Countries. They DO NOT. The Bankers want to rape them of their resources just like they want to rape US citizens of their money and land. (see History HACCP and the Food Safety Con Job)

Structural Adjustment Policies are economic policies which countries must follow in order to qualify for new World Bank and International Monetary Fund (IMF) loans and help them make debt repayments on the older debts owed to commercial banks, governments and the World Bank. Although SAPs are designed for individual countries but have common guiding principles and features which include export-led growth; privatisation and liberalisation; and the efficiency of the free market.

SAPs often result in deep cuts in programmes like education, health and social care...

By devaluing the currency and simultaneously removing price controls, the immediate effect of a SAP is.. that riots are a frequent result. www.whirledbank.org...

A former respected member of international banking, John Perkins, said in “Confessions of an Economic Hit Man” and interviews, the American banks and IMF solved both of these problems by having the IMF lend countries the money to pay off the American bank loans.

JOHN PERKINS: Basically what we were trained to do and what our job is to do is to build up the American empire. To bring – to create situations where as many resources as possible flow into this country, to our corporations, and our government, and in fact we’ve been very successful. We’ve built the largest empire in the history of the world. It's been done over the last 50 years since World War II with very little military might, actually. It's only in rare instances like Iraq where the military comes in as a last resort. This empire, unlike any other in the history of the world, has been built primarily through economic manipulation, through cheating, through fraud, through seducing people into our way of life, through the economic hit men. I was very much a part of that....

Q. How closely did you work with the World Bank?

JOHN PERKINS: Very, very closely with the World Bank. The World Bank provides most of the money that’s used by economic hit men, it and the I.M.F.
www.lewrockwell.com...
www.democracynow.org...

reply to post by HunkaHunka


TY Hunka, anyone who has 4 years college in the basic sciences and a mind of their own has to know at heart these resource crisis and overpopulation and environmental gloom scenarios are simply made up.

I mentioned in the beginning, how when we were kids for a decade it was all about "the coming ice age"

Now it's global warming

The only thing different is that now the govt is actually acting on and using this non sense.

Imagine if the "ice age" would have triggered this hysteria fro govt?

We could have gone bankrupt 2 years earlier

Originally posted by Primordial
Just because something can be done doesn't necessarily make it the best thing to do.

Also, throwing numbers out about population densities has no real bearing on reality. Sure Canada and Russia have vast areas that are unpopulated but you ignore the fact that they are unpopulated because they are frozen, barren tundras. Should we force people to live there simply because the land exists? And how do you get supplies and food to large populations in frozen areas without requiring the use of even more resources?

In your example of living underground in the rain forest and farming near the river... how much of the rain forest do you cut down to farm? How much more do you cut down as the population increases unchecked?

Who needs to "force" anyone

I guarantee if you "build it" they will come.

You refer to these areas as barren tundras? Not really at all, beautiful summers, abundant wildlife, rivers, clean water, fresh air... lush forests often...

People live in Phx AZ 124 degrees in the summer... summer can be 6 months, you get in your house, or carturn on the heat or ac ihe case of phx...

why do people live in Phx, there are amalls and jobs, there are tons of ability to create jobs in these local, resources, oil diamonds...

Only thing is 4o-60 years ago even we didn't have the technology to actually build a city there, before nuclear power it would have been dangerous...

Now... it's got great potential, it's an information society, new systems are fiber... work a whole different world, just living in the past not to...

and the other reason...

We don't actually NEED to yet... Northern Canada can hold 10 new cities built from scratch to thin the population of the continent, they'd be brand new, perfect... Heck Alaska could take 5 cities too...

and I propose this with a definite statement that, you could still drive through those regions for hrs of wilderness and never know there were cities there that's how much and and resources are available.

As far as the rain forest,

using vertical farms you could realistically not cut down more than 10% of the rain forest, not occupy more than 1/3 of the banks of the Amazon and supply as much food as the whole United States and put people in homes under it

The thing is, we aren't even remotely Close to having to do those things yet anyway

Feasible? Not feasible?

America lost 3.5 Trillion Dollars recently... lol LOST IT

Vertical Farms pay for themselves, Nuclear plants pay for themselves and both are nearly 100% profit after a point... the projects create jobs... JOBS that have people spending money.

Iraq, 9 Trillion and counting... those troops don't create wealth employed that way lol, the ruin wealth in the end...

Originally posted by lisa2012
Just have a look at this :


2009 Population 6,781 Billion
1909 Population 1,6 Billion
1809 Population 978 Million
1709
1609
1509
1409
1309
1209
1109 Population 310 Million
909
809
709
609
509
409
309
209
109
0 Population 200 Million
100 BCE
200 BCE
300 BCE
400 BCE
500 BCE Population 100 Million
600 BCE
700 BCE
800 BCE
900 BCE
1000 BCE Population 50 Million

Do you think this is right ? With all the violence in the world !!! At this moment it does not occur to me we are going in the right direction . Yes the earth can sustain this numbers but is it really necessary ...I agree with the person on this thread saying that is our animal instinct to reproduce .

We are not a peaceful population for planet earth if we were advanced enough spiritually and technologically maybe this population increase would not be a problem .

Peace

You know what

of 6.7 Billion people is it now?

Last year, How many were killed and how many lived in peace...

1% ? probably less than 1% realistically .5 or even less maybe

On paper when,... lets say 3 Million deaths to fighting, war and murder are held up and you read the details... it sounds and feels horrific.


But here's whats real...

If you went back 400 years to colonial times... and there was a colony of 100 people often the stats looked like this:

35 killed fighting Indians

35 killed by disease

15 died of starvation or exposure

Yeah all the time when colonizing America... 80% death tolls before the next ship arrived...

NOT .5% dead to war disease and Famine 80%

and people pulled through... 1% is nothing

Swine flu is nothing

all the wars of the last 10 years combined are statistically NOTHING compared to... a single bad winter 400 years ago.

I simply wont wax Emo and read the news and cray a river over the horrors of this world let alone even THINK of going back in time to an age where I'd die of need of a root canal...

I grew up walking by the Church of the Trinity in NYC, not some lil colony NYC ... and I would marvel at the tomb stones...

Most read Mid 30's, Some mid 20's

Pick your era... This one is damn skippy nice by comparison.

People talk about PANDEMIC

Maybe once again in a century... BOO HOO, Thanks to modern science it's not like the Bubonic plague that ravaged for a couple of CENTURIES

We actually are doing great, if you eliminate the infinitely small number of people maybe a few thousand of them actively creating...yes creating war and famine today.... we'd be close to Utopian by comparison to the past

reply to post by mopusvindictus

t's surreal, it never ends... god can you even imagine ...I mean we do , we supply 1/3 of the worlds food...

Yes and the Ag cartel wants every bit of that land and Obama and Congress are about to give it to them.

Please Please read History HACCP and the food safety con job If the laws pass you will not be able to have a home garden, much less farm without filling out tons of paperwork and a million/day fine if you do the paperwork wrong. (no trial Monsanto's lawyer is your judge!)

reply to post by Beefcake

The NWO corrals us in to claustrophobic conditions to give the appearance of over population.

Ok. Im sorry. I cant let this go. Please do not take offence to my rejection of this particular statement.

This is a defeatist attitude, and one that goes along with the argument "Not my fault." Again, not being personal here. I just here about this "NWO" and cant help but cringe about the things that are claimed to be perpetrated by the "NWO."

Its used as an excuse, a fear factor and another boogy man. There is no such thing as a group of powerful men known as the "NWO."

There are very old thought processes that can be described as the "NWO", but no conspiratorial angle to it really.

Point in case. I have never been "corraled" in my entire life. I know very well I could move out of this country and go anywhere I please anytime I want. Unless my son is considered the "NWO" I would do it, but he is the main reason I stay where I am.

The world conditions are no fault of anyone but ourselves. You dont think one man can change the world, then I beg you to look into this man:

Gandhi

The fact is, the elite want most of us dead because the more of us there are the harder things are to control.

This is the second part of the post I have major contention with. If this were true, it would have been done long ago. If it were true, I would love to know how they think they will replace the 5.9 billion laborers and consumers that enable their wealth, power and status.

It is not logical and very much not the case.

Maybe there are some religious nuts out there that have this idea, but they hold no sway over world politics and governance...maybe a few fringe supporters, but very few and far in between.

Hope I didnt offend you.

I know this was off topic, but I felt it was worth addressing.

Originally posted by lisa2012
This is from WORLD POPULATION DRAFT ........UNICEF



If, for the sake of illustration, the fertility of countries is kept constant at 1995-2000 levels, the world population soars to 244 billion by 2150 and 134 trillion in 2300.

All of this increase occurs in the less developed regions, whose population rises from 4.9 billion today to 134 trillion in 2300. In sharp contrast, the population of the more developed regions declines from 1.2 billion in 2000 to 0.6 billion in 2300 were its fertility to remain constant at current levels.

You know these guys are absolutely absurd right?

134 Trillion lol

Populations expand and flux with the available possibilities to do so... it is exceptionally rare that any species falls out of balance and the case of mankind the entire industrialized world has shown that these trends fall off, as they will, soon enough in Africa...

Meanwhile solutions make it possible to continue to expand

They have an AGENDA

lol 134 Trillion people...

way to scare the semen right out of you...

Material comfort assures that these things will not happen, advancement assures that what growth there is can be handled and poverty and in ability to sustain that population assures that people who have those kids and don't provide for them, will not have kids that achieve the ability to reproduce.

I mean you can say that if you save x dollars a month... in x numbers of years you CAN have a Million dollars, but who ever actually accomplishes that?

These are figures proposing that if every female has x number of babies and they all live x years and have x....

More Utopian thinking, that's never going to happen, particularly not in Africa

Many people are selfish and don't reproduce...




FAR from this Bologna scenario

The Population of the USA of Japan of Germany of England is in DECLINE, we don't have the work force to sustain our elderly anymore...

That is REAL

and Unicefs moronic projections are ...projections based on utter nonsense, the only reason the USA and Canada grow at all is because we let them in out of mercy.

Our cultures are on the verge of extinction... we will never, ever no matter how much i say have babies, if we are rid of abortion EVER in a modern society,....grow beyond our means and technology and ability to expand...

NO modernized society ever will

We are actually in danger...

Africa undeveloped is BOUND to have a crisis that makes Aids and famine look good any day now... because they are not developing technologically, India and China will level out and grow slowly.

America, Western Europe and Japan are... in severe Danger of being pushed aside and simply absorbed in due time now...



AFRICA

Africa is always held up as the example for overpopulation...

Why because Africa is a time bomb and we all know it, Africa is expanding faster than the rest of the world in population while under constant warfare and not modernizing at a 1/10th of the speed of the rest of the world.

Africa is essentially doomed

Because 150 Million adult Americans can't care and feed and modernized 1.5 Billion Africans... so yeah pandemic there is a given, war there is a Given...

Why? because they have grown at a pace that exceeds there modernism, wealth and industry and farming.

This is NOT true of North America as a whole

we can easily hold another 1.5 Billion and have the technology right now to make it comfortable...

and IF we did that our economy COULD sustain growth in the 3rd world, we could allow more immigration without loss of our cultures, we would have enough tax dollars to help feed them, we would have enough money to modernize farming.

But no...

The reality is Africa isn't doomed because.... falling behind the curve in terms of capacity is such a huge problem or offense...

It's doomed because we in the West haven't maintained the numbers of people to assure the growth necessary to modernize them and create and equilibrium

The modern world should Never level out or go to decline with out at least maintaining numbers with the third world and modernizing them along side us...

Because of the Wests lack of population growth

In time Africa will be a giant grave yard let alone 134 Trillion people or what have you...

The time might come when we SHOULD level out the population...

I'd guesstimate that number to be around the 40-50 Billion Person range.

This thread is about what WE in the WEST (and in Asia actually in fairness) can do and there is truth but only in proving my point here, If WE don't have the population and economy to prop up the growing third world, the inevitable death toll for them will be staggering...

all the more reason to make some babies and stop being selfish

reply to post by lisa2012


Yet none of these studies address that 50% of the food in the world rots, that farming practices haven't been updated in.... Ever?

The problem with these studies is who funds them.

No one wants to upset the status quo

Big Oil funds studies that show hoe resources will be used IF we keep using oil lol

Monsanto and Beatrice and other entities fund studies that... don't require them to change or spend a dime on growing MORE food...

Studies that cite resources vs population growth paid for by corporations are as worthless as the paper they are printed on

Redo the study and factor in

Cold Fusion

Or a switch to hydrogen for cause

Or vertical Farms...

Or genetic engineering


You see...

The studies are completly valid using todays technology and existing infra structure...Build a few more train lines, change how you fuel your car, suddenly it's worthless...

So yes...

IF

We did NOTHING about it and changed nothing yeah... these stats would be real.

But you can be sure if we run out of lights, people will build more lights one way or...OMG another

reply to post by crimvelvet


YES... sure absolutely

This is WHY you have lots of kids, to rise up and Kill them when they try and take your garden...

You know it's super duper easy to take an old lady with no kids garden away right?

But what if 200 Million extra people have gardens because there isn't enough food to go around?

plan fails...

See why they want our populations tiny tiny in the West?

Yes it starts making sense now doesn't it, the reason to hype Birth control in a DECLINING POPULATION

reply to post by crimvelvet


Yeah and...

As If I don't read ats and know the Rockefeller and World bank and the rest have it in for us?

Definitely haven't missed those 4 Million threads

I however see old men who need to be destroyed... so that all that wealth can pass back to the people...

Yet another reason they fear a bit of Overpopulation, it's far more likely they will be over run by a mob isn't it...

Tsk Tsk

I wont miss them...

reply to post by mopusvindictus


There is intelligent life at ATS

I was worried for a while.

reply to post by mopusvindictus

Completely Brilliant post, I think you may have been being sarcastic
when I made you a foe on the other depopulation thread.

My deepest and most sincere apologies.

Again, Bravo to your post, I don't think i could have said it better.

Just 1% of the jet stream could replace all forms of power on Earth.

The Antarctic Circumpolar Current is over 100 times the flow of all
rivers on Earth.

The Solar Thermal power in the Sahara could power the entire Earth
several times over.

The Bay of Fundy flows in and out twice a day more water than
all the rivers on Earth.

We leave in abundance but we are chained by greed.

reply to post by latinlover


Ah your over in Mesa! Just Moved up to Flagstaff myself a few months back...

By your name i'm guessing your likely Mexican?

Hispanic families "GET IT" I didn't "get it despite initially growing up in NY around all immigrants anyway...

It's better to have (not saying you do) 5 kids in a family in one small house or even apt, than it is to be rich and not have family... if one of your kids is in trouble they got your back, if work isn't available for you, your never homeless, when you get old some of your kids at least will give a damn.

That's how immigrants come to America and build strength and fortunes... that's how we did it.

People resent Mexicans because of numbers and children as if it would be a threat to their culture if THEY had children right?