What does drinking out of a skull signify?

Saurus

oxford

But in all honesty I find it really creepy and I'm not sure ethically I like the idea because the paraphernalia are from unknown origins. There is also that whole 'rest in peace' ethical issue.

You're thinking from a strictly Western point of view. To really find truth and understand mankind from all cultures and religions, you must see the world through their eyes also.

edit on 12/12/2013 by Saurus because: (no reason given)

No its not a Western pov, It just seems very unethical, would understand if they were former members etc but because most lodges don't even know where they come from, it comes across to me as the desecration of human remains.

Its because they are 'unknowns' and probably wouldn't agree to it while they were alive that bothers me, if it was one of your own lot I wouldn't bat an eyelash and could quite happily accept that.

Years ago I met a really weird guy with 20inch fingernails who had come back from Tibet, we struck up a conversation as I was interested to travel there myself at the time, he told me to stay away from the tribes that wonder around if I approached on foot as they like to poison people so when they die they can bind their souls and imprison them for eternity. He also said don't drink the wine if you visit a monastery, as they generally add blood to it (they see it as a gift as they have aclimatised to the altitude), and he said smuggle back some monk skulls because you can get some serious money for them.

Just because people have been doing stuff for years or it might stem from an Indigenous tribe doesn't make it ok, it is more important to question what we do on a personal level rather than follow a tribe blindly.

Just out of interest how many here would donate their own skull to their lodge for this initiation?

reply to post by oxford


just because you are not OK with it, doesn't mean everyone else has to stop doing what they are doing.

And check your drivers licences, if it has a little heart on it, they you too have offered whatever parts others want once you die. I have one. When my spirit leaves this earth, it will not be taking my body with it.

oxford

No its not a Western pov, It just seems very unethical, would understand if they were former members etc but because most lodges don't even know where they come from,...

...Its because they are 'unknowns' and probably wouldn't agree to it while they were alive that bothers me, if it was one of your own lot I wouldn't bat an eyelash and could quite happily accept that.

How is it any different from someone who dies in an accident and has never told anyone what they want done with their remains. What right does anyone have to bury or cremate the remains? It is based purely on the whims and preferences of the survivors, nothing else. Your argument is based on the premise that the majority of people in the world have the same viewpoint as yours, and you assume that, therefore, the owner of the skeleton would have wanted the same. Besides, what happens to unidentified bones does not affect any survivors, so how can it be an ethical issue?

it comes across to me as the desecration of human remains.

...Just because people have been doing stuff for years or it might stem from an Indigenous tribe doesn't make it ok, it is more important to question what we do on a personal level rather than follow a tribe blindly.

I live in Africa where such practices are commonplace, and not considered to be desecration, nor are they considered unethical. In Preceptories where such practices are generally frowned upon, artificial skulls are used, and in some constitutions, such as the English constitution, they have actually substituted this piece of ritual with something slightly different.

Besides, how do you know it's desecration, when you don't know what the ritual entails, or symbolizes?

Just out of interest how many here would donate their own skull to their lodge for this initiation?

It's not an initiation!!!!!!

Oh my God, did you think this was all for fun or to embarrass the candidate. The part of the ritual in question teaches one of the deepest and most beautiful lessons on life and our own mortality in all of Freemasonry!

I don't care what my body is used for after I die - I would gladly have a Lodge using my bones. However, since what happens to my remains after I die affects the grieving process of my family, I will leave it up to them to decide.

Also, in the case of unidentified bones, relatives don't come into the issue, and there are, therefore, no such considerations to take into account.

kingswillquiver

What does drinking wine out of a skull signify?

A bloody good way of gettin' some brains.

reply to post by kingswillquiver


To me, drinking from a skull signifies barbarism and a small intellectual ability.

But that's just an opinion of course.

Esoterically, it is probably meant to mean something the participants probably imagine is profound, but the whole idea is pretty juvenile AFAIK.

MysterX

To me, drinking from a skull signifies barbarism and a small intellectual ability.

But that's just an opinion of course.

Yes.

I don't agree.

Esoterically, it is probably meant to mean something the participants probably imagine is profound, but the whole idea is pretty juvenile AFAIK.

How can anybody 'imagine' something is profound? If it dramatically affects that person's perceptions, it is!

reply to post by MysterX


RIght, and those who would condemn something without understanding it are exactly where they belong. On the outside.

MysterX
reply to post by kingswillquiver

 

To me, drinking from a skull signifies barbarism and a small intellectual ability.

But that's just an opinion of course.

Esoterically, it is probably meant to mean something the participants probably imagine is profound, but the whole idea is pretty juvenile AFAIK.

edit on 17-12-2013 by MysterX because: (no reason given)

Try eating ice cream out of skull. Then you've got something to write home about.

No, I haven't done it, but mainly because I'm vegan. I do have a skull though, don't you?

reply to post by Aleister


Vegan! Good lord, didn't you know? If we weren't meant to eat animals, they wouldn't have been made out of meat.

reply to post by Saurus

Yes. I don't agree.

Cool...no problem.

How can anybody 'imagine' something is profound? If it dramatically affects that person's perceptions, it is!

Pardon?

An experimental scientist thinks putting rare substance 'A' into special receptical 'B' will result in a profound, world changing result of 'C'...after actually doing so however, the result achieved is neither world changing or profound..it's just a receptical containing 'c', not 'C'.

The scientist imagined the result would be profound...it wasn't, despite his perceptions favouring a profound result. Because you think something is profound, the act of imagining it is or hoping it is doesn't make it so, apart from in your imagination.

reply to post by MysterX


The analogy is not the same, as the purpose of the ritual is to get the participant to perceive something profound, so if he does, it has achieved its purpose (C, in your terminology), and is, therefore, profound.

network dude
reply to post by MysterX

 

RIght, and those who would condemn something without understanding it are exactly where they belong. On the outside.

Lol..what's to understand mate?

A group of tossers drinking something from an animal or human skull is what it is, it's a group of tossers ascribing some ethereal meaning to it where none really exists...it means nothing, regardless of what those who would do it imagine it means. It's simply a dead part of an animals anatomy that can hold a liquid...apart from the barbaric, ghoulish aspect, that's about as deep as it goes IMO.

You're welcome to imagine there's some fundamental, esoteric or ethereal effect generated as a result if it makes you happy to...but i don't.

Some believe in magic, some believe in gods, some believe in witchcraft...i believe they're all bollocks, practiced by and for those with weak minds and a very gullible bent.

But hey, i do believe in humility and will entertain the possibility of being wrong about it.

Saurus
reply to post by MysterX

 

The analogy is not the same, as the purpose of the ritual is to get the participant to perceive something profound, so if he does, it has achieved its purpose (C, in your terminology), and is, therefore, profound.

Imaginary...in other words.

reply to post by Aleister


Does eating ice cream from a skull mean that the brain freeze is halved?

MysterX

Some believe in magic, some believe in gods, some believe in witchcraft...i believe they're all bollocks, practiced by and for those with weak minds and a very gullible bent.

On the contrary, it is only the failure/unwillingness to question what we don't understand that makes us weak, and blindly following what we are told about our reality that makes us gullible.

I have always seen the questioning of what we don't understand as a mark of intelligence.

MysterX

Imaginary...in other words.

Are emotions imaginary?

And since when does "profound" apply only to the tangible and not to thoughts?

reply to post by Saurus


Why are you assuming i haven't questioned before forming an opinion?

I question almost everything presented to me, always have done - to a fault more often than not, and to the great annoyance of my tutors while at school too. I was often punished for not just going along with 'because that's the way it is!' style of rhetoric.

The way it works with just about any thinking, reasonable mind is; Presented information - consideration - question - accept or dismiss or further research.

Why do you think i've not done this before forming my opinion? Don't you use this normal filtering process?

Actually it is a ritual that most people still do today without thinking of it. The Kapala is a bowl or cup, originally designed from a skull. It is theorized that the ancient people of all cultures gave thanks to the earth and possibly their ancestors as they drank from a skull, probably because some people still do it. We have created our own bowls and cups now but this modified kapala is still used in religion to this day to give thanks to god. A modified kapala is used for communion. Like I said, it is such a part of our lives that we don't even realize that we are following tradition.

Look at the word kapala and the word cup.

Saurus

MysterX

Imaginary...in other words.

Are emotions imaginary?

And since when does "profound" apply only to the tangible and not to thoughts?

edit on 17/12/2013 by Saurus because: (no reason given)

You appear to be making a false assumption. You seem to be saying that if someone has a profound thought or idea, then that thought or idea actually IS profound outside of their imagination...while sometimes it may well turn out to be profound, it's just as possible it is not profound at all and at best an interesting thought experiment, and at worse it's total rubbish to everyone except the originator.

Since science appears to be on the verge of claiming the entire Universe is a gigantic simulation, essentially mostly imaginary...then it would follow that everything contained within it, is also imaginary or simulated..so yeah, emotions would be included in that imaginary Universe.

MysterX

Why are you assuming i haven't questioned before forming an opinion?

My apologies. It was a momentary lapse of reason on my part.

The way it works with just about any thinking, reasonable mind is; Presented information - consideration - question - accept or dismiss or further research.

Why do you think i've not done this before forming my opinion? Don't you use this normal filtering process?

Okay, so it is your opinion, then. I accept that.

What is obvious, though, is that you and I have been researching in very different places, as after years and years of research, I have come to the opposite conclusion to you on topics of magic, witchcraft etc.