What does drinking out of a skull signify?

In Dan Brown's new book, the opening scene is located in the Grand Lodge
in Washington DC, and in the ritual the Freemasons are drinking wine out
of a human skull.

Then I asked in another thread if this ritual actually took place, and
Masonic Light verified that it does.

Originally posted by kingswillquiver


Is there a ritual that requires drinking wine out of
a human skull as Dan Brown's new book suggests?

Ceremonies differ from place to place, and from time to time. But there have been some degrees and rites where this occurs. It was apparently a part of the original Knight Templar initiation, and therefore found its way into various Masonic degrees of Templary.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So, my question to the many Masons on this site is,

What does drinking wine out of a skull signify?

Probably just signifies you are 'real hard man' and not squeamish about drinking out of a skull. Or maybe a Goth.

But, seriously, there may be some symbolism connected with the belief (in some cannabilistic societies) that eating a person's brain meant you inherited their skills and bravery etc.

So maybe to drink from the skull of a revered ancestor/predecessor was also thought to give you their great attributes?

Or maybe they're just Goths .....

I'm not a Mason (alas, of the female persuasion) but I think it symbolises the transfer of knowledge from one person to another.

I'd love to hear the Masonic sentiment on this as well!

The reference in Dan Brown's book is to a ritual dating back to Merovingian times that is mimicked in the Latin Missae or Catholic Mass.

As the Merovingians, like all other Celtic Tribes, were head-hunters, they believed that the power of a person resided in their head. So, they would take the heads of their Saints and place them in a Chalice or Graal and pour wine over the skull. This would transmute the wine into "Holy Blood" that was invigorated with the mystical power of that Saint. The Catholics adopted the same ritual for their Mass, but left out the skull of Jesus, although the concept is precisely the same (transmutation of the sacramental wine into the Blood of Christ).

reply to post by kingswillquiver

What does drinking out of a skull signify?

Your thirsty?

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[edit on 18-9-2009 by elevatedone]

It signifies that one might be a dillusional nutjob.
I'll stick to drinking out of a cup.

That theres always some mug without one



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[edit on 18-9-2009 by elevatedone]

Originally posted by fraterormus
The reference in Dan Brown's book is to a ritual dating back to Merovingian times that is mimicked in the Latin Missae or Catholic Mass.

As the Merovingians, like all other Celtic Tribes, were head-hunters, they believed that the power of a person resided in their head. So, they would take the heads of their Saints and place them in a Chalice or Graal and pour wine over the skull. This would transmute the wine into "Holy Blood" that was invigorated with the mystical power of that Saint. The Catholics adopted the same ritual for their Mass, but left out the skull of Jesus, although the concept is precisely the same (transmutation of the sacramental wine into the Blood of Christ).

Sounds like black magic to me.

Do you think this practice pleases God, is that what you are saying.

Which God?

From what I've read on the subject, drinking out of the skull is required to become 33rd Degree. I guess that about the time they've got your soul.

Sounds nothing to me like "becoming a better man", as the Masons would have us believe.

I'm just guessing here, but it may have to do with a kind of communion with death. By putting their lips and partaking of something that was in contact with this dead thing that ultimately represent themselves they may be acknowledging that death is not something to fear.

Maybe it means even more. Death is not only something that should not be feared but death is also something that can give you something if you have a close relationship with it.

Originally posted by kingswillquiver
Sounds like black magic to me.

Do you think this practice pleases God, is that what you are saying.

Which God?

From what I've read on the subject, drinking out of the skull is required to become 33rd Degree. I guess that about the time they've got your soul.

Sounds nothing to me like "becoming a better man", as the Masons would have us believe.

The Celtic culture and their religious practices predated the Christian God. They did not worship a Christian God but had their own Gods that they worshiped.

When the Catholic Church saw fit to convert these pagan Celtic peoples, they adopted many of the Celtic Religious Rites into their own Christian Religious Practices. One of these being the Ritual Transubstantiation of the Eucharist.

To mimic the Merovingian & Celtic practice of Transubstantiation using a Grail, the Skull of a Saint, and Wine, the Catholics used a Chalice symbolic of the one used in the Last Supper, and the Wine as the Blood. Both the Ritual and the Symbolism is identical to the Merovingian practice.

So, if you think that such a practice is un-Christian, yet still take Christian Communion, then you are doing the *EXACT* same thing!

The only difference is that drinking the Christian Eucharist of Wine from the Transubstantiation is taking the Blood of Christ into your body, whereas drinking the Merovingian Eucharist of Wine from the Transubstantiation is taking the Blood of Dagobert (or whomever Saint's skull was used) in their body.

Even though Christians aren't pagan Celts, they still practice this pagan Celtic ritual in almost every Christian Church that uses the Eucharist.

Although the Skull & Crossbones that is used as a symbol in Freemasonry does come from the spiritual child of a dead Merovingian princess named "Yse" as explained in their 33rd Degree Initiation...the symbolic practice of the taking Transubstantiation in the manner the Merovingians did, as opposed to the Eucharist of the Latin Missae, would have indeed come by way of the Templar Degrees.

"[a] great lady of Maraclea [Yse] was loved by a Templar, a Lord of Sidon; but she died in her youth, and on the night of her burial, this wicked lover crept to the grave, dug up her body and violated it. Then a voice from the void bade him return in nine months time for he would find a son. He obeyed the injunction and at the appointed time he opened the grave again and found a head on the leg bones of the skeleton (skull and crossbones). The same voice bade him 'guard it well, for it would be the giver of all good things', and so he carried it away with him."
- Ward, Freemasonry and the Ancient Gods

I have never taken the 33rd Degree myself, so I cannot speak from personal experience, but the 33rd Degree Initiation Ceremony described in the book "33Rd Degree Freemason Initiation-Deadly Deception by Jim Shaw, wherein the following is described:

One of the Conductors then handed the "candidate" a human skull, upside down, with wine in it. "May this wine I now drink become a deadly poison to me, as the Hemlock juice drunk by Socrates, should I ever knowingly or willfully violate the same" (the oath). He then drank the wine. A skeleton (one of the brothers dressed like one - he looked very convincing) then stepped out of the shadows and threw his arms around the "candidate." Then he (and we) continued the sealing of the obligation by saying, "And may these cold arms forever encircle me should I ever knowingly or willfully violate the same."

does not appear in any versions of the 33rd Degree Ritual that I have seen in other published sources.

This would seem to be a Penal Oath though, so if this is what is being referred to, then the Skull is representative of the Morbidity of the Vow. That if one violates their sacred Oath, they will be punished by becoming like the skull...i.e., dead.

EDIT: Added additional information

[edit on 18-9-2009 by fraterormus]

reply to post by fraterormus


Thanks for the added info.

So, it seems it's confirmed, that there is a ritual involving drinking out
of a skull.

The oaths, strange ritual, secrecy, exclusiveness.

How can an organization with that track record be good for
mankind?

reply to post by kingswillquiver


How does drinking out of a skull make a group bad for mankind exactly? Where in the Bible does it say, "Oh, and by the way, if you drink from a skull? You're going to hell..." Some 12th or 13th commandment that got left on the cutting room floor, perhaps?

Originally posted by JoshNorton
reply to post by kingswillquiver

 

How does drinking out of a skull make a group bad for mankind exactly? Where in the Bible does it say, "Oh, and by the way, if you drink from a skull? You're going to hell..." Some 12th or 13th commandment that got left on the cutting room floor, perhaps?

What's wrong with a cup?

Originally posted by kingswillquiver

How does drinking out of a skull make a group bad for mankind exactly? Where in the Bible does it say, "Oh, and by the way, if you drink from a skull? You're going to hell..." Some 12th or 13th commandment that got left on the cutting room floor, perhaps?

What's wrong with a cup?

Cups are perfectly fine. I like cups. I use them quite regularly. (Well, I prefer mugs, but that's me...)

Your turn. What's wrong with skulls?

[edit on 9/18/2009 by JoshNorton]

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by kingswillquiver

How does drinking out of a skull make a group bad for mankind exactly? Where in the Bible does it say, "Oh, and by the way, if you drink from a skull? You're going to hell..." Some 12th or 13th commandment that got left on the cutting room floor, perhaps?

What's wrong with a cup?

Cups are perfectly fine. I like cups. I use them quite regularly. (Well, I prefer mugs, but that's me...)

Your turn. What's wrong with skulls?

[edit on 9/18/2009 by JoshNorton]

You don't think it's childish? Drinking out of some dead persons head sounds like a group of boys getting together to invoke some spirits.

Are you trying to mix salt, mercury and sulphur to make gold too?

Or maybe the ritual is the opposite of the act of Jesus drinking wine signifying it was his blood.

Freemasonry is a dark path.

Originally posted by kingswillquiver


What does drinking wine out of a skull signify?

It signifies that you are a satanist.

You really didn't know this? I mean, I am not a satanist, but if I saw some people drinking from a skull I would be pretty freaked out.

Originally posted by kingswillquiver
You don't think it's childish? Drinking out of some dead persons head sounds like a group of boys getting together to invoke some spirits.

Are you trying to mix salt, mercury and sulphur to make gold too?

So all you've got is mocking. No rational rebuttal...

Or maybe the ritual is the opposite of the act of Jesus drinking wine signifying it was his blood.

fraterormus already offered the meaning, the answer to your question of the original post, yet you reject it outright only using it to say "See, there ARE unconventional drinking vessels used by Masons!" and ignoring the rest of the information he provided.

Freemasonry is a dark path.

Ah, so your mind's already made up then. No further discussion necessary?

Originally posted by pluckynoonez
It signifies that you are a satanist.

You really didn't know this? I mean, I am not a satanist, but if I saw some people drinking from a skull I would be pretty freaked out.

Why? How many Satanists have you met who drink from skulls? None of the Satanists I know do. Maybe a few goths, but they're all church-going christians...

wine?

hell, if i had a human skull... i'd eat fruit-loops out of it.

coolest cereal bowl evar!