"Damn The Country, Obama Must Fail"

Originally posted by JayinAR
If we are in big trouble because the Government is gridlocked along party lines, why is it that Obama must fail?

You misunderstood a key point of the post.

The statement, "Damn The Country, Obama Must Fail," is in quotation marks, meaning it's not my words. Instead, it's an editorialized statement of the capital hill attitude I encountered amongst the opposition -- the republicans.

It's certainly not my position that, "Obama Must Fail." Instead, it's the apparent all-consuming strategy of the right.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I see.
The Star and Flag was well deserved indeed.



Great thread.

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by SkepticOverlord

 

...If we are in big trouble because the Government is gridlocked along party lines, why is it that Obama must fail?

I mean, you present an opinion that makes it seem you are objective in the Political Mix until you specifically name Obama.

[edit on 11-8-2009 by JayinAR]

Erm. I think SO is saying that that's the only item on the agenda - to bring Obama down. ...And that the business of running the country, properly or otherwise, is not being attended to to as a result.

Before I graduated from college in 2008, my professor showed his students a documentary called "Corporations". I thought I was going to get sick. It pretty much sums up what the original poster had mentioned. During the course of the documentary, CEOs from Exxon, Microsoft, and many others admitted to a quiet war being played out in Washington. I think it would be more shocking to see it in action.

I cannot say that I am surprised. While being a high school student in the nineties, I kind of sensed and understood that our government was corrupt. Only until I learned the real story, I began to understand the magnitude of such corruption. I use to think it was only the military, but now I have double confirmation on the larger issues at hand.

Grrr...

[edit on 11-8-2009 by Pathos]

reply to post by Maxmars

Well, perhaps we could engage in a different kind of 'revolutionary' approach.

It doesn't take much to formulate a Revolution, and it takes even less to formulate an idea or to bring about something Revolutionary. We may think Revolution as violence, guns, bombs, us vs them. Revolutions can take place out of the blue, evolve from seemingly mundane and typical political processes.. a vote, a new idea, a new way of thinking, a new approach to political in general? .. One thing all revolutions need is a front of peoples willing to spread the message. In short the entire US Political system is a revolution every few years.. we can operate with one mentality, then after an election our national policies do a 180 flip.. in past, this is revolutionary, it is now typical.

Sadly, I believe to make typical once revolutionary acts such as altering the very mindset of the political powers puts limitations on the forms of Revolutionary acts that can in fact generate the change needed or desired to be considered "Revolutionary" .. If in elections we vote in change, and we get pushed aside for the powers of special interest money, just as had happened in the 8 years previous.. it's safe to assume the system which is fundamentally corrupt would need replacing.. the limitations on Revolution being that a democratic solution to protect Democracy is not possible. It would simply follow the line of progression established by the Democratic ideas of our nation.. hardly Revolutionary, and hardly inspiring change.

The People will always triumph.. regardless of the powers of government, regardless of their supporters.. if the majority are disenfranchised, it only takes a small push to turn ordinary people into fighting revolutionaries. Be it in the ballot boxes, in the streets protesting, or in armed conflict. The idea established by Thomas Jefferson was that all Government instinctively consolidate power.. to protect the Republic and the Democratic process, sometimes the Government must be dismantled, the consolidated power appropriately re-distributed to the people, and a new government to be formed to begin the process anew. What do you call a Revolution to devolve the system to what it was in the beginning? It's hardly revolutionary, as it's hardly change so much as it is reverting to our origins.. I suppose this doesn't matter.. all that matters is the Government fears thinkers like you and I, and any line of thought that aims to deteriorate the Governments power over us is viewed as rebellious and treasonous.

reply to post by soficrow


Yes, I understand that now.
I read the OP as if he was saying that this must happen at this point because the war in the Government was causing irreversable damage and something needed to be done. (putting my own bias in the thread )

Therefore, he was hoping that Obama would fail to just bring it back undercontrol.

Either way, it is a brilliant post.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
The People will always triumph.. regardless of the powers of government, regardless of their supporters.. if the majority are disenfranchised, it only takes a small push to turn ordinary people into fighting revolutionaries. Be it in the ballot boxes, in the streets protesting, or in armed conflict. The idea established by Thomas Jefferson was that all Government instinctively consolidate power.. to protect the Republic and the Democratic process, sometimes the Government must be dismantled, the consolidated power appropriately re-distributed to the people, and a new government to be formed to begin the process anew. What do you call a Revolution to devolve the system to what it was in the beginning? It's hardly revolutionary, as it's hardly change so much as it is reverting to our origins.. I suppose this doesn't matter.. all that matters is the Government fears thinkers like you and I, and any line of thought that aims to deteriorate the Governments power over us is viewed as rebellious and treasonous.

After what the original poster described and what I saw on DVD, I do not think this is going to be a very easy obstacle to overcome. Parts of our military are privately owned. We have an army that responds to the highest bidder.

www.ustraining.com...

[edit on 11-8-2009 by Pathos]

Originally posted by Rockpuck

The People will always triumph.. regardless of the powers of government, regardless of their supporters..

What leads you to this conclusion?

When have "the people" ever triumphed?

Like I said earlier, there's a reason it's called a revolution ...

I repeat, there is no "triumph" within the game, just slightly more comfortable armchairs after each revolution.

[edit on 11 Aug 2009 by schrodingers dog]

Reply to post by Maxmars

I didn't say throw out the bill of rights.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by Pathos


People are not necessarily what I am talking about. Hard? For sure.. if it came to worst possible outcome, many, many men could die.. if it were through democratic means how many generations would it take? Time and numbers are irrelevant to Revolutionary ideas.. that can be established and set to simmer for decades, or centuries in some cases.. it takes the opportune time, at just the right moment, with just the right coincidental collisions of ideas, actions, people and environment to bring about instantaneous change.

In every person there is an idea, and the idea is immortal.. it can pass from generation to generation, person to person, and it doesn't matter how many people are killed in the pursuit of an idea, the idea will always endure. If the collective people are supportive of our founding ideas, the ideas of the Republic will never be destroyed. It's just a matter of securing enough people who believe in the original idea of this Nation, and not the mutated appalling monster that was created through corporate greed and political corruption..

Of course.. if the people desire to allow a Government to run every aspect of their lives.. there is little that can be done to change their minds. It's much easier to live life knowing big brother is watching you, feeds you, houses you, takes care of your health and monitors your actions. They should just know regardless of who or what the government is, it's never in their best interest.. We would not be the first Republic to be destroyed from internal weaknesses of the people to protect what was once charished

Reply to post by MemoryShock

I would wager that would be largely an artifact of the currently broken/corrupt system.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

I think I am guilty of belonging to the Get-Obama crowd, not because of party, I was born and raised Democrat, reluctantly became a Republican (I didn't want to belong to the party that killed JFK) at the insistence of church friends who hated the Democrats, (the party of Abortion), but I became a Republican after defending Clinton for the upteeth millionth time and got totally disgusted with him, and not even knowing back then that he was only a CIA agent, a stooge of Carroll Quigley who supported the "elite" control of both parties, just like Obama is stooge of Zbigneiw Brzezinski
But I am guilty of belonging to the Get-Obama crowd because, even though I voted for him and sent money to his campaign, I HOPE and HOPE and HOPE that his failure will mean the survival of my country from the attack of the same fiends who are served by Quigley & Brzezinski & Clinton & Obama

reply to post by schrodingers dog


At any time in history when enough people decided on new ideas, whether it represented the majority of not, change is brought about. No tyranny last indefinitely.. they all come through an eventual end, and usually it's internal. How many Kings have been beheaded, how many countries had revolutions from the poor and the middle classes? Our own nation was founded on revolutionary ideas of a merchant class against a Monarchy. Their creation has been mutilated.. but that's expected with time.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Oh yes, kings have fallen ... yet here we are.

Perhaps, referring back to my first post on this thread, it's time for a little less revolution and a little more evolution.

It's no surprise, and even if somebody comes along that tries to buck the system or change it, they are prevented from doing it, Kennedy for example.

The words of the prophet Jeremiah comes to mind when considering the mess described by the OP

I know, God, that mere mortals can't run their own lives, That men and women don't have what it takes to take charge of life. So correct us, God, as you see best.

I am further reminded of this statement from a King

Don’t put your confidence in powerful people; there is no help for you there. When they breathe their last, they return to the earth, and all their plans die with them.

The idea of the American constitution especially "The bill of Rights" was a noble idea. But those that proposed and drafted it are long since dead. It is more than obvious that almost all with the exception of a few diehard constitutionalists like Ron Paul no longer feel those ideals are important to protect. Greed, Power and money are the order of the day in DC as the OP/SO has shown us. Confirming what many of us already knew, perhaps we just never how bad things really are in 2009.

If it isn't obvious to you by now, there is no human solution that will be embraced. The idea's are there, as mentioned in this thread, but they won't be implemented, because those with the power to implement them would be cutting their own throats.



[edit on 11-8-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

Well, I have always loved Niagara Falls (the Canadian side.) When I was a kid it was a completely different world. When I was a teen, it was things I should not post here. As an adult, it is that place I used to love that got taken over by casinos and hotels for casinos. Suddenly, it looks a like a nice place to settle down and go see how screwed up their government is. It may not be any better but at least I will be having more doing all those things I cannot post here.

Thanks U.S. It has been real, and it has been fun but um...well you know. There must be some unclaimed Islands somewhere to go start over.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Thank you for this absolutely awesome thread SO. For many of us...including me....this is what we have assumed. Thank you so much for shedding more light into why our government no longer works.

You hit the nail directly on the head.

Great job and thanks for sharing.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


I wanted to touch on that statement as well.

The people 'will triumph' is a relativistic statement. In which context will they triumph? Will they overcome the shackles of the percieved oppression and actually start thinking for themselves, gradually moving towards a true republic where collaboration amongst the collective is valued over monetary gain or status struggles?

Or will technology and increased physiological comprehension on the part of those commissioned by Congress/government create a reality where personal comfort is achieved at the cost of critical thinking?

Either way, it can be argued that the people triumphed. But I would think that we here on ATS would prefer the former.

One aspect of our current political reality is that we are using antiquated ideaologies when compared to our current comprehension of technology and human manipulation. Which is why education/critical thought is very important. It's an idea that I have been thumping for quite a large portion of my ATS career, and that is the more they understand and the more the public focuses on the irrelevant then the easier it is for the implementation and use of that which the public doesn't understand (because they were bamboozled, for example, to a feeding frenzy on the OctoMom "issue").

Whether one wants to admit it or not, all men are not created equal in that economics usually dictates educational level and subsequent life oppurtunities...or the lack thereof. And those who are 'less than equal' are being pacified by those who were alotted the oppurtunity...either because they sold their souls to money or were born into it.

And until people start recognizing that a smile does not necessitate a friend then this will just continue on and on and on...

One thing I got out of this post is that; maybe the boogieman I belive in as the "PTB, Builderburgs and all the other puppetmasters" who really run the show are really just.....wait for it.........

The Lobbyists

Crap maybe we can do something about this. I'll donate to abolish the lobbyist with our own lobbyist. Will that work

Originally posted by Rockpuck
At any time in history when enough people decided on new ideas,

What I am considering is that this is the first time in history where the only new ideas people are exposed to are through marketing efforts.

The public isn't being told anymore...they are being suggested.