"Damn The Country, Obama Must Fail"

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Well as I see it, the only power we have left is our vote, and the problem with that is, people vote.

Actually storm, unfortunately that is not the case.

You/I/we cannot vote our way out of this ... no blue/red pill choice here, just different shades of blue.

If "empowerment" is a personal ambition then really one's only currency is, well, currency.

But even that is an engagement in "their" game.

And one cannot play themselves out of the game!

Not even through revolution ...

Really, and without wishing to be too existential, the only way is not to play.

Namely the transformation must take the form of a true personal detachment from one's relativistic, egoic, conceptualized relationship and interdependence with their mind made self. Then all of this dissolves into a cacophony of noise in the distant background. One can still operate on this realm but without any suffering or attachments. And there is no "power" against that.

Otherwise, by definition, all else is just a continuing, endless, and unnecessary struggle.


[edit on 11 Aug 2009 by schrodingers dog]

Originally posted by Hx3_1963
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

You will be assimilated, Hail Caesar!

Now you know we've heard this before...right?

Mr Lincoln himself uttered this remark...

Would you care to enlighten the masses?

You really must post a link to your Original The Original 13th Amendment my Borgian friend so the good people of the American State can see just what trickery and Tom Foolery befell them when the corporate government took over under Dictator Lincoln who ended the notion of State's Rights and a Constitutional Form of Government once and for all, not to mention perfected what would become the forerunner for the Federal Reserve scam of fiat instrument of debt non-backed currency when he invented the Green Back Dollar.

People should learn the truth of what the Corporate Roman State has done to them.

Then of course appoint me Dictator for life!

You will be assimilated, Hail Caesar

[edit on 11/8/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by Maxmars
Kids are not taught how to analyze, how to research, how to synthesize a concept from observation

SNIP

So, how do we educate America......

Technological progression in the following years may warrant a radical shift in education. At the present, information is merely a click away. Forecasting models suggest that information will be downloaded directly to our brain, rendering classical education(memorizing dates, numbers and formulas) useless.

This, perhaps, is when educational focus will shift paradigms. No longer will information be taught directly to students, but philisophical, analytical and conceptual teachings will dominate. As schro-dog pointed out, it'll be education based on understanding, not information.

So, how do we educate America? Well, we cant. But the future can. Can we the people hold off long enough?

At the rate we're going, probably not. But there's always hope.

-Dev

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Thank you for sharing your experiences with us, and like you said, this comes as no surprise to most of us. But when you are actually in the bowels of Washington and you get an up front, undisputable view of what we have all known for so long, i'm sure it must be surreal. We are all a minority though, still, believe it or not. Whenever you try and spread the word, most people admit they just want to keep their jobs, and their ways of life. They don't understand that things cannot go on like this, and we are seeing the chickens coming home to roost as we type.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
I say we desolve the legislative branch and perhaps the executive. And move to a virtual democracy over a secure network where EVERY US citizen has a voice and a vote. We have that capability.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Unfortunately democracy doesn't work well in a diverse community. 51% of the people can utterly oppress the other 49%. That doesn't seem likely to last long.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
I say we desolve the legislative branch and perhaps the executive. And move to a virtual democracy over a secure network where EVERY US citizen has a voice and a vote. We have that capability.

I have thought of that as well...due much in part to my identification that ATS, or discussion forums in general, or kind of a microcosm society.

But as was recently pointed out to me in a succinct fashion, there is a problem with that in the 90-9-1 Ratio for participation

Edit for grammar.

[edit on Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:46:46 -0500 by MemoryShock]

Originally posted by schrodingers dog

Really, and without wishing to be too existential, the only way is not to play their game. Namely the transformation must take the form of a true personal detachment from one's relativistic, egoic, conceptualized relationship and interdependence with their mind made self. Then all of this dissolves into a cacophony of noise in the distant background. One can still operate on this realm but without any suffering or attachments. And there is no "power" against that.

Otherwise, by definition, all else is just a continuing, endless, and unnecessary struggle.

I wish you were wrong. But, existentially speaking, there's hardly an argument that can stand versus the strategy of simply refusing the paradigm.

But our society frowns upon the practice..., the days of Thoreau's Walden seem a distant memory.

edit to correct - oops

[edit on 11-8-2009 by Maxmars]

An interesting point was brought up by a few members above which I think bears some repeating.

We have allowed our political system to become so corrupted that "Average Joe" can not run for national office. It is simply impossible. "Average Joe" can not run for Congress, or the Senate, and certainly not for President. He doesn't have enough money.

So basically either you are a billionaire like Corzine and Bloomberg, or you do your time for the parties and basically end up selling yourself to their interests.

It's easier for "Average Joe" to get in at the local level, but even then you have no choice but to follow what the party leaders say. If you get endorsed for this position, you had BETTER make sure to work with the party's judicial nominees. That sort of thing.

If you split with the party's position, they will put their money behind a primary opponent who will take their position.

The way I see it, the voters are seen as a non-factor, and even most of the electeds themselves are seen as Christmas Help who are there for a certain amount of time to do the boss's will.

The party bosses are the ones with the real power, and they've become so bloated and all powerful that the citizens don't stand a chance.

How can Average Joe make a difference if he can't run? How can Average Joe have an impact on anything in government if there are multiple lines of defense that have specifically been put in place to keep him away?

I don't know.

Originally posted by Helghast1
about the republicans with long knives comment, wasn't the same exact thing true the day George W Bush was elected to office?

To some degree, yes.

However, the person who bared his soul to me, an inside veteran of political staff and lobbying, expressed deep concern that this time it was far worse than ever before... to the point where it's all consuming and all issues of national importance be damned.

Thanks for bringing this up. I used to be a conservative republican, but I have never seen the likes of this group over the past several years. Though I don't support many democratic agendas, I see them as at least wanting to do whats right, be reasonable, try to engage in debate. However, I see the neocons as having some sinister motive to destroy the entire country for their own aims (we have 9/11 and the Iraq war as ample evidence of this!). It's the worse group of people that I have ever seen (but their campaign is greatly effective in reaching the minds of the mindless Americans). They are the true shape shifters (if there were/are such a thing).

I have sent a copy of the OP to every thinking person I know and a request that they read it. It is probably the most clear and succinct account of what our ruling class is really about that I've ever heard. It wouldn't hurt to have every ATS member read it for themselves.
This should go to every American. The majority of them really have no idea who is in charge.

I am not American, however, I belive this is happening globally at least in most so called democracies.

Is there any better reason to start a revolution and overthrow government?

I would never incite such a thing only ask the question. Based on the feeling that there is little that can be done to change the state of affairs in a conventional way, what is left?

The old saying "give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves" Is this possible? Will they be the victims of their own demise or will it take public intervention of scale?

Originally posted by PowerSlave

Is there any better reason to start a revolution and overthrow government?

The king is dead, long live the king?

There's a reason it's called a "revolution" ... think about it.

[edit on 11 Aug 2009 by schrodingers dog]

reply to post by PowerSlave
You know I started a weird thread about something like that, "enough rope to hang themselves", as in Obama and his "Mandate" for change...

Obama: Brilliant or Buffoon?

If he was to push so ultra far off left and let congress run wild, it would incite a backlash and force a change without him being taken out like JFK and others...

First off, let me say to SkepticOverlord thank you for your strength to share your experiences.

Secondly, being Canadian I have no say in this thread (to a point).

That being said let me say be careful what you wish for, dictatorship or revolution. Both would disrupt not only your Country but the world. If the U.S. should fail in anyway the ripples would be impact every Nation, even every world citizen.

As for Lobbyist. Canada was falling into the Lobbyist hold and has been doing their best to control them. In the 90`s this was hot topic up here. I don`t know a lot of details but the Lobbyist Registration Act (source) is now in place. Limits as to how much money can be spent and no more Lobby "gifts".

"Was their ever any hope?"

Their was but it has faded and now can barely be seen at all. I don't believe he who is in the current white house will fail but I will continue to stand against this on going corruption in high places as long as I breath. We the people are being forced down a very deadly path.

I have one son who does not communicate with me anymore and told me he had "to much living to do". Just prior to his leaving I had given him several thousands of (soon to be worthless paper) dollars. He has a family and needed help so being a father that has always (and still does) care for both of his children, I helped. It hurt for a while but I understood both his fears and his desire to carry on as though nothing was amist, just the usual rancored smells.

Many will run as long and as far as they can. It will be a fruitless journey. The (World Health Organization) has already made the vaccination manadatory with threat of criminal prosecution. Complete control and the killings of many innocent individuals does not seem impossible anymore. Please do not consider me left or right. I remain a realist as facts expose who our real enemies are.

The people that understand the OPs post, did before the post. The rest will only think up a rebuttal.

reply to post by mythatsabigprobe


It has been a long, long time, couple years, since I actually posted about anything that I felt strongly about but I believe, whole heartedly that our great nation is going to come to an end soon.

After Nancy Pelosi had the gaul to say that people who were speaking out against Obama's Health Care plan were not Patriotic, the first thing I saw was red. You're telling me someone is un-patriotic just because they were voicing their opinion and getting a little boisterous at a Town Hall meeting! Lady, you will never, ever, ever, take away my right to free speach, ever. These people think they work for Sector 7 and that they have the you can do whatever they want and get away with it badge.

This is about enough. Our forefathers created this great country out of sweat and tears, not money and politicing. We need to go back to the seeds of our begining. Politicians need to make their decisions on what is good for the people, not what is good for their pockets or others pockets.

These guys running around under the guise of "lobbying" trying to get one off legislation passed so that they can benefit their organizations makes me sick. What about us? What about the tax payers that keep this country going? If it wasn't for us, none of these politicians would get paid. But oh, we can use taxpayer money to bail out banks and car makers and God knows who else.

This is just making me sick to the pit of my stomach, and you know what the really bad this is, there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. I can't wait to see what kind of government my son is going to have to live under after I pass away. Tyranny, suppression, work for the good of the government because this world has come to the haves and the have nots.

If there was a button that I could push to take us back in time so that we could undo our countries upcoming demise, I would have done it years ago. Sad, very sad. I just don't know what to say any more. I'm as patriotic as they get but I'm beginning to dislike my country and where it is going. We war with everyone under who knows what reason this time, and tomorrow, we'll get another tax levied on us to pay for some pet project that some politician somewhere has the ability to pull the wool over everyones eyes.

Can someone, anyone, tell me when this is all going to end? If there is a 2012 departure from this, it won't come to soon. We live in a society where children rape children, crime runs rampant, police are getting frustrated and using more than necessary force, our representatives are supposed to make laws to help our welfare and lives but are more worried about lining their pockets, a society in which people like Pelosi can call us un-patriotic just because we may disagree with them yet we pay their salary, a society of corruption at every turn, a society, a once great country, a place of ideas and freedoms, that is turning into the very thing, the very nightmare, you would never wish upon our children.

The only thing that will save us now would be a catastrophe of epic proportion. Maybe then people will pull together and things will change, then again maybe not.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I starred and flagged your thread (not that it matters at this point, you have a ton of them!) because that was a brilliantly composed thread.

And I agree with you except for one thing.

If we are in big trouble because the Government is gridlocked along party lines, why is it that Obama must fail?

I mean, you present an opinion that makes it seem you are objective in the Political Mix until you specifically name Obama.

How about, the idiots in Congress must fail? Afterall, Obama can't do much without their compliance. Edit - In fact, most of your post went at length to explain just HOW messed up Congress is.

I mean, if we are to say that a certain element of a busted system needs to go down and "damn the country"... and we acknowledge that the whole system is indeed busted, why not just take the whole system down while we're at it? Afterall, your title makes it seem as if in ensuring Obama's failure will bring catastrophe anyhow.

I smell bias. (not that there is anything wrong with that.)




[edit on 11-8-2009 by JayinAR]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


S&F, of course.

Used to be, it was just a Dog and Pony Show. Now it's a Dog and Pony Railroad.

I get so mad I just can't say anything productive.

BTW - Has anyone here read a book called "Hello Laziness"? Originally published in Europe, written by Corinne Maier(?). Think it might be relevant.

- sofi