"Damn The Country, Obama Must Fail"

reply to post by ShiftTrio


That does sound interesting. What will it be that we would be promoting?

Policy driven by the people for the people? No lobbyists allowed. This would take some effort. The major concerns of the masses would have to be analyzed and put into a coherent message. The message would have to be presented.

reply to post by Hx3_1963

reply to post by Gorman91

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At least we are not like Rome during Caesar. We have not yet abandoned our constitution for emperors.


I can't believe you would post this remark, a few short posts under this...

ProtoplasmicTraveler
www.abovetopsecret.com...


Thank You PT for pulling this out of the "archive"...

"Citizens of Rome" need to read the above post as many times as it takes, and research for themselves...that event marks when this all went wrong and what the solution is...

Thank you my good Borgian friend. It took a bit of time to present it and word it in a way the plebians might find interesting!

Ah but what do they really care for when it regards matters of the state when the spectacle of bread and circuses causes almost constant festivals to distract and entertain their minds?

The archives are a bit sleepy this morning for the effort!

All will be assimilated. Hail Caesar!



[edit on 12/8/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Did you advocate for dismantling the private ownership of the Fed and returning the money-issuing power to the people thereby removing interest rates entirely and cancelling the national debt? Did you advocate for redistribution of wealth equally? Did you advocate for imprisoning bush and cheney as war criminals?

The policy at ATS is NOT to advocate for social action, NOT to use ATS to organize a resistance.

If you want to influence the members of ATS, let them organize a resistance and orchestrated media voice advocating for peace and justice, n'est pas?

reply to post by jackflap


I think we would have to start general, mostly analyzing the more glaring problems. Writing some form of petition, that we think the majority of Americans
can agree on. So it have to be very glaring so even the most left person and the most right can say. That makes sense. I think, Campaign funding, Lobbyist funding, how and who lobbyists have to pitch there wears. The basics of what we see as greed, power hungry, selfish gestures in our government. I think we really think about this , employing scholars, creative copy people, technology and many others to use the smarts of the people we have here (Which btw I can say from reading ATS since 2003 there are a lot smarter better educated people here then elected officials).

I guess we have to see who actually wants to get off their ass and do something

ATS in all my years here has always been for information, be crazy, some times radical or speculative occurs as a conspiracy site I expect no less.

I find solace in the fact that is many people like me in ATS that wants our nation to change for the better no the worst, that see what is affecting our nation destroying what people before us fought so hard to achieve.

I welcome this thread because it bring awareness of what is going on in this nations government something that I have researched and have know for a long time.

Now lets stay with the topic and stop the side stepping.

Lobbyist on Washington is more lobbyist than congressmen and to make matters worst even foreigners have lobbyist working for them, no wonder is not time or effort to lobby for the American people.

Who is lobbying for us. I always point out that if I had a million dollar I would by me a politician anytime.

[edit on 12-8-2009 by marg6043]

reply to post by ShiftTrio


But in this way, wouldn't we become lobbyists as well? I have to sit back and really think this whole thing through. We need policy driven without greed as a motivator. We are talking about a Utopian society of sorts. This takes an awful lot of thinking and planning. Let me mull over some ideas and get back.

reply to post by jackflap

No worries.
To lobby for change is not wrong, if greed and corruption are not the fuel. We are supposed to lobby for change. Its the money that has ruined that principle IMHO

Originally posted by marg6043


Who is lobbying for us. I always point out that if I had a million dollar I would by me a politician anytime.

What if we lobby for ourselves.. Strength in numbers, from all sides, I think would make more change then money. I may be naive in my thoughts. But honestly believe in my heart, ALL Americans despise corruption and greed when they think of their elected officials. Its the vehicle that is needed to bring that together. IMHO

Just doing some research experiments Follow the Money...

Here are the 20 Members of Congress (ranked) that have received the most money from the Pharmaceutical/Health Products Industry for the upcoming 2010 election cycle...I chose the 2010 election cycle because I wanted to see money in action.

www.opensecrets.org...

Here is the Senate Committee on Health, Education and Labor...(Left side of page) help.senate.gov...

How many names are on both lists?

I just picked one industry....and you can see influence peddling in motion.

Let me try another...

Money from the Electric Industries to Congress...the top 20 recipients
www.opensecrets.org...

The number two guy on the list who has recieved the second most amount of money in all of congress from the Electric Industry is Byron Dorgan, Sen. ND.

He just happens to be the Chairman
Appropriations - Subcommittee on Energy and Water, Chairman
And a member of the
Committee on Energy & Natural Resources
Subcommittee on Energy
dorgan.senate.gov...

THe next Senator who has recieved the most money from the Energy Industry recently (for the 2010 election cycle) Comming in 3rd place.....Boucher (D-Va.) who OF COURSE is a vocal member of the House Energy and Commerce Committee.

He recently wrote an article back in June that begins...
Boucher: Bill Is Essential for Curbing Gases
By Rep. Rick Boucher
Special to Roll Call
June 22, 2009, 12 a.m.
Following a month of continuous negotiations in which I engaged with Energy and Commerce Chairman Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) and Subcommittee on Energy and Environment Chairman Ed Markey (D-Mass.), an agreement has now been reached on the principles for greenhouse gas control legislation that protects the national economy and cushions the consumers of fossil-fueled electricity from significant electricity rate increases.

* I have no doubt if I looked into the legislation he "negotiated" it would reveal protections for the energy industry.

***Just pick an industry...see who they paid the most to and find out why.***

...My point is it is easy to find these chumps...next election cycle lets find the worst few and fry them in the media. Lets get started being a democracy again.


[edit on 12-8-2009 by maybereal11]

[edit on 12-8-2009 by maybereal11]

reply to post by ShiftTrio


I agree but money is what moves the world.

Top lobbying spending,

Lobbying Client Total
US Chamber of Commerce $488,458,180
American Medical Assn $208,472,500
General Electric $183,895,000
American Hospital Assn $172,940,431
AARP $164,072,064
Pharmaceutical Rsrch & Mfrs of America $154,533,400
Northrop Grumman $133,515,253
Edison Electric Institute $128,645,999
Business Roundtable $127,980,000
National Assn of Realtors $127,977,380
Exxon Mobil $124,626,942
Blue Cross/Blue Shield $120,491,385
Verizon Communications $118,344,841
Lockheed Martin $115,567,888
Boeing Co $108,728,310
General Motors $104,774,483
Southern Co $97,670,694
Freddie Mac $96,194,048
Altria Group $88,380,000
Ford Motor Co $86,329,808

Top Lobbying Firms

Patton Boggs LLP $330,657,000
Cassidy & Assoc $292,955,000
Akin, Gump et al $271,315,000
Van Scoyoc Assoc $217,603,000
Williams & Jensen $160,304,000
Hogan & Hartson $145,604,162
Ernst & Young $139,387,237
Quinn Gillespie & Assoc $127,363,500
PMA Group $115,940,578
Barbour, Griffith & Rogers $114,550,000
Greenberg Traurig LLP $113,148,249
Holland & Knight $108,109,544
PriceWaterhouseCoopers $96,004,084
Dutko Worldwide $93,366,766
Alcalde & Fay $91,730,660
Carmen Group $90,130,000
Verner, Liipfert et al $88,595,000
Clark & Weinstock $82,925,000
PodestaMattoon $81,165,000
Timmons & Co $78,001,333

Top Industries


Pharmaceuticals/Health Products $1,688,105,232
Insurance $1,269,279,506
Electric Utilities $1,158,602,695
Computers/Internet $953,531,230
Business Associations $871,366,563
Oil & Gas $834,166,456
Education $815,729,134
Real Estate $766,216,631
Misc Manufacturing & Distributing $757,599,282
Hospitals/Nursing Homes $747,751,294
Health Professionals $669,985,584
Securities & Investment $653,495,355
Civil Servants/Public Officials $641,701,230
TV/Movies/Music $637,714,522
Air Transport $636,212,920
Misc Issues $562,792,892
Telephone Utilities $556,720,220
Automotive $547,647,406
Telecom Services & Equipment $526,590,586
Defense Aerospace $447,559,402

interesting

www.opensecrets.org...

reply to post by ShiftTrio


You don't have the cash. The politicians won't listen to the constituency unless that constituency is packing a fat wallet.

This is part and parcel why town hall meetings are so angry, sure there may be those that are planted by the republican party to disrupt them. But there are those in this country (like me) that are damn sick and tired of form letters that have nothing to do with the question we ask our representatives.

I sent my representatives a letter outlining a plan that would give every American basic health care from birth till death without raising taxes or creating a new bureaucracy. What did I get in return?

A freaking form letter that had nothing to do with what I was talking about.

We all know what happens to a government when they start telling the people something to the effect of Que ne mangent-ils de la croûte de pâté?'

reply to post by maybereal11


He, he, you beat me to it.



Thanks for the extra links.

reply to post by ShiftTrio


Barring anything resembling a bunch of wealthy consipracy geeks heading to washington with a shopping list, does anyone think we could simply lobby for ourselves by organizing and implementing independant organizations to take action on ideas?

For example, health care. I heard about a coop of doctors who treat patients on the cheap. They take donations from the community and patients and do not accept any insurance. All patients are treated the same way you might expect a responsible business to treat a client.

I can see this concept of cooperative grass roots action taking hold. Why should we rely on the government. Just do it yourselves. Course I know the real answer is that it is hard and people tend to be lazy these days. Still, it would be nice to drive for something like that. That would bypass the lobbyists entirely.

While I don't agree with everything Dobbs say I have to give credit to what he wrote about lobbyist and Washington.

Lobbying against America
'Corporate supremacist' lobbyists control Congress, passing corporate friendly laws at your expense.
August 11, 2005: 6:41 PM EDT
By Lou Dobbs, Lou Dobbs Tonight

New York (CNN) - There's no denying both political parties in Congress are now owned lock, stock and barrel by corporate interests. Our nation's elected officials in Washington have formed a partnership with the corporate supremacists and special interest groups in an effort to drive profits to the bottom line of U.S. multinationals at the expense of hard-working Americans.

money.cnn.com...

Without money nobody listen to the American people, but hey they are great at getting the American people to pay with their labor, sweat and taxes for the mistakes of those in power.

The great American take over indeed.

reply to post by marg6043


Here is what is really interesting. If you go to opensecrets and look at the lobbyist contributions and contributions from industries and cycle back between a couple of years ago 2006 and present...the numbers dramatically shift. 2006 all the money was going to the GOP members...now it is going mostly to Dems....those in power get paid!

No BS we need to break the system.

[edit on 12-8-2009 by maybereal11]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


I think these ideas could work. Yet, implementing these changes is nigh-impossible under the current climate. We are running a country on the steam engine system of debt. In debt we trust indeed, and how the boiler is still spewing steam when it has blown all its seams is the incredible thing.

Also the overall atmosphere is that if there is something to throw into the fires (the hot button issues du jour, or whatever), in it goes, and out comes hot air sending this out of control hot air balloon right into the center of the sun.

I really did have hope for a better outcome. I got caught up in the hype of the last elections, and I just have to accept that I knew better than to think that our current president, like the rest before him would bring the change he promised.

I guess of our last remaining options, storing food, water and supplies is really starting to look like a realistic course of action in the face of current events.

God help us all.

Originally posted by maybereal11
those in power get paid!

And this in a nutshell explains the power struggle in D.C.

It is all about the money. My party is no longer majority, so I don't get the gifts and moolah. Thus I must work to get my party back in power by any means necessary to pay for my expensive house and car and mistress on the side.

reply to post by maybereal11


Exactly!!!!! but paid the all get by lobbyist, during the years of political control both parties get their fair share of money flowing to their pockets.

Depending which party is control so the interest groups shift from one sector to the other.

reply to post by rogerstigers


BULLSEYE...

They compete to get on the comittees that serve industries with the deepest pockets.

The "ranking" members and those with juice get the most Payola.

reply to post by marg6043

I do not disagree, which is why we need a few insiders who think like us. Who can give us the ins and outs the dos and don't s I am afraid we have to find a few honest politicians. I think there are a few . Again I think if it was a truly organized Internet (to start) campaign, that provided millions of people will to go to bat in their home towns, in there cities. Willing to do what needs to be done. I think it could work. Can we actually get that organized? I am a realist. So probably no, But it sure is a great climate to try. And Don't we need to try? At least something?