"Damn The Country, Obama Must Fail"

I dedicate this song to all of those who feel stuck in the middle with clowns to the left, and jokers to the right,

Stuck in the middle with you

www.youtube.com...

Trying to make some sense of it all,
But I can see that it makes no sense at all,
Is it cool to go to sleep on the floor,
'Cause I don't think that I can take anymore
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right,
Here I am, stuck in the middle with you.

[edit on 023131p://bWednesday2009 by Stormdancer777]

reply to post by xmotex


Bingo.

The problem boils down to a collective versus the individual. Both Democrats and Republicans believe that the collective (their party) is greater than the individual (me, you, opposing people on the other side, etc.).

The bigger the government, the more people they can get in on the pay roll. The more people in on the pay roll, the more people that become corrupt. The more corrupt the people, the more money it takes to sway them. The more money it takes to sway them the less power the individual has. The less power the individual has the less liberty the individual has. The less liberty they have the less freedom they have.

The irony of this is that we need more representatives in both the Congress and the Senate to help alleviate the powers that large money holders have. Of course, in order to do this we have to give the government more power... and the only way to do that is to make the government bigger.

I do believe we are at a lose-lose moment.

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Any system can be gamed if the PTB control it. Look what they did to the economy right under our noses.

The Op has effectively argued that there isn't much we can do to change anything. Even if you could vote the rats out the inherent corruption would still remain. It's an insidious cancer that has a grim prognosis.

I think we're all entitled to our own moments of skepticism and quiet desperation. By continuing to support and maintain this site SO's actions speak as loudly as his words. Remember, if 4 people contact any of their representatives on any given issue, it must addressed.

Year 2012. The most popular word- Obamageddon.

Originally posted by observer
What this country, NAY, planet needs is an EVOLUTION not a revolution.

I've been thinking about this response since I read it earlier today. And I'm starting to think that this is closer to "the answer" than everything else I've read.

It's been said, revolution is just more of the same. "They" can deal with revolution. They have no power against evolution. An evolution of the people.

There's an idea of a different approach to this - different than "fighting" the government. There's got to be a way that the people can evolve beyond the control of this government (and the almighty dollar), not by using our votes or by emailing our representatives, but by using our minds... The power IS in the people, because we are the masses.

I'm posting the following quotes from other members because I think they're important.

Originally posted by Advancedboy
Otherwise even revolutions don`t matter. Revolutions create chaaos, but, once the old sharks get replaced, the new ones start to feel the taste of blood pretty soon. revolutions don`t decrease 12 trillion external debts. Revolutions don`t decrease 800 billion negative trade balances. Revolutions don`t add skills to manufacturing.

Originally posted by Credge
The bigger the government, the more people they can get in on the pay roll. The more people in on the pay roll, the more people that become corrupt. The more corrupt the people, the more money it takes to sway them. The more money it takes to sway them the less power the individual has. The less power the individual has the less liberty the individual has. The less liberty they have the less freedom they have.

I do believe we are at a lose-lose moment.

I'm tempted to agree, but not ready to throw in the towel just yet.

I don't have an answer, but I really don't think that the mechanism of protest and peaceable assembly put into place by the forefathers is going to work. Neither do I think rash, violent, revolution is going to work either. "They" have controlled responses to both of those. Ignore the protests, arrest or silence the revolutionaries. There's got to be a third option for taking our country back. It's outside the box. And while I have glimpses of the answer, I can't quite put my finger on it...

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

It's outside the box. And while I have glimpses of the answer, I can't quite put my finger on it...

The Internet .. is almost outside of their control. If a controlled method of spreading a message without sensationalism taking hold and running wild.. I would assume that a change could occur in the very way we view politicians and politics. Ron Paul and the Ron Paul Revolution was a perfect example of political ideology spreading like wildfire.. sadly, it also highlighted the ignorance of many of his "followers" .. but I think it's the closest thing we have to an answer without protests, without violent means, and communicating with hundreds of thousands to millions at once. A Charismatic leader who can lead the people from his(or her) living room.. (people would love not having to get out of their chairs too) and he(or she) wouldn't even have to lean toward any political party.. simply "vote them all out and new ones in" come election time.. meh, who knows.

It's not probable.

*my original post was accidentally sexist. *

[edit on 8/12/2009 by Rockpuck]

reply to post by Blaine91555


Hey how can you fight the money flowing from lobbyist?, after all since 1998 since the introduction of the bill to stop lobbyist influences in campaign donation $12 billion has gone to stop that bill.

But Congressman Emanuel says he thinks the leaders of Congress aren't interested in changing the way it operates, or even the way lobbyists operate.

"When the Speaker's gavel comes down, it's intended to open the People's House, and lately it's looking like the Auction House," says Rep. Emanuel, "Whether it's an energy bill that gives more $8 billion to the oil and gas interests while oil's at $64 a barrel, whether it's a corporate tax bill solving a $5 billion problem with a $150 billion solution, whether it's a pharmaceutical, prescription drug bill where the industry gave $132 million and walked away with $135 billion in additional profits."

Why change when is soo good.

www.cnn.com...

reply to post by marg6043


A very strict and complete oversight agency, 100% separated from the Government, privately funded should keep an eye on each senator/congress persons wealth growth from the time they are running to the time they leave office.. shady insider trading, bribes, fancy trips .. and come election time it should be easy enough to vote out the most corrupt? Perhaps even criminal charges? Of course, the Democrat that was arrested with cash in his freezer was supposed to comfort us that bribery doesn't happen, and when it does it's prosecuted.. but we all know that story stank of political motives.

Lets try another...

For the new 2010 cycle the #1 recipient out of all of congress of Lobby Money from the Oil and Gas industry

...Lincoln, Blanche (D-AR)

www.opensecrets.org...

Does the money pay for anything? Well she has a rather "nuanced" view about Oil and Drilling and renewable energy for a Democrat

www.grist.org...

Sen. Blanche Lincoln recently called the House climate and energy bill “a complete non-starter,” and pledged that the Senate would move more slowly in crafting legislation in order to address the concerns of specific legislators and regions.

.......she would like to see more drilling in a climate and energy bill. “I am committed to examining all options that will lessen our dependence on foreign oil, including incentives for conservation technologies, as well as offshore drilling,” she says on her Senate website.

Lincoln sits on the Agriculture, Finance, and Energy and Natural Resources committees, meaning she will likely play a major role in crafting components of climate policy. On the ENR committee this spring, she was one of several Democrats pushing for a less stringent renewable electricity standard, agreeing to support the RES only after it was lowered from 20 percent to 15 percent by 2020.

Also last year, Lincoln was part of a bipartisan group of senators calling for an energy plan with increased offshore drilling as well as tax breaks for renewable energy.

“[W]e already have tremendous infrastructure and effort in the Gulf region for drilling,” she continued. “And to be able to mitigate some of our needs in terms of imported oil immediately, expanding some of that drilling in areas where we already have infrastructure for getting that oil out as well as know what’s in those areas, makes sense. ... You’re never going to be able to do without oil. What we want to do is displace the amount of imported oil we’re using.”

FYI - Whether you are for or against offshore drilling is irrevelant...the fact that her stance is currently being paid for is what should be news.

[edit on 12-8-2009 by maybereal11]

Just a question cant we do a massive clean up in in Washington ?

just a thought?

reply to post by dino1989


If political parties where outlawed and term limits established... sure.

Here's another Freedomworks email i recieved, i've never signed up to be on their list, and i'm sure it's only because i like guns and get newsletters from my favorite dealer, they must forward my addy to them assuming i'm a "right-winger", lol. I'm neither and i can see clearly through their BS, this email fits the title of the thread perfectly....

Dear XXXXX,

This week in the wake of our August Recess Call to Action, FreedomWorks has been the target of a vicious campaign by the likes of MoveOn.org, ACORN, the AFL-CIO, and the Democrat National Committee (DNC) to discredit our organization and slander our membership.

Help us fight back!

As a FreedomWorks member, I think you have a right to know what these groups are saying about you.

While it’s only the first week of the month-long August Congressional Recess, hard-working FreedomWorks volunteers have already been attending town halls and listening sessions to rightly voice their opposition to big government reform proposals such as the cap and trade energy tax and President Obama’s hostile takeover of America’s health care system. The recess action kits that we have provided include talking points on these issues so that activists can be well-informed. They also include tough questions for legislators to answer to provide clarity as to their positions on these important issues.

We feel that it is fair for a lawmaker to hear their constituents’ concerns and frustration over the incredible over-reaches of government power we see in both ObamaCare and the cap and trade energy tax proposals, and to demand answers on where they stand. But the Left has seen fit to characterize our actions as “disruptive” and “disgusting,” even calling us “thugs” and “un-American.”

They are even perpetrating outright lies to the media by accusing FreedomWorks of encouraging our members to be unruly and shout-down Members of Congress, not allowing them to speak. This is of course, not true. FreedomWorks prides itself on making sure you, as members, are well informed on the issues, ask tough questions, and get answers to them. We always encourage volunteers to be respectful, but resolute in communicating their positions on important issues.

These liberal Leftist groups are manufacturing such lies because it gives them a target and they have organized an all-out attack on FreedomWorks’ Washington, D.C. headquarters.

Our offices have literally been hammered over the last week by an organized patch-through phone call campaign by MoveOn.org, the Unions, and others that have hit us with phone calls comparing FreedomWorks staff and members to Nazis and issuing profanity-laced verbal assaults including one racist rant leveled at an African American member of our staff. Liberal pundit Rachel Maddow even “declared war” on FreedomWorks’ website, essentially encouraging cyber-attacks by liberal hackers.

These dirty tactics by the Left have forced us to beef-up security at our offices and for our website, and even contact the FBI to report some of the more threatening calls that we have received.

As you know, FreedomWorks does not encourage this kind of underhanded activity. We believe that at their core, our arguments centered on fundamental free market principles stand on their own, which is why we don’t resort to intimidation and lies as the Left so often does.

Nevertheless, the Left is playing dirty and turning up the heat day by day. MoveOn.org recently announced that they are building a war chest in an effort to crush us and that in one day they raised over $250,000.

If we are to have a fighting chance against this liberal juggernaut, I need your help today.

Please help us to fight back by taking part in FreedomWorks August Recess Call to Action; attend a town hall meeting this month; and chip in $25, $50, or whatever you can afford to help us continue fighting against Obama’s big government agenda despite the all-out assault that MoveOn.org and others have launched:

Help us fight back!

While it is a daunting task to go up against Obama and the Left’s well-funded political machine, the good news is they wouldn’t be attacking us if we weren’t being effective. Your emails, phone calls, and face-to-face interaction with legislators and their staff is making a difference and that is why MoveOn.org is raising money specifically to go after us.

Now is the time to kick our campaigns against government-run health care and the ominous cap and trade energy tax into high gear. If we don’t fight back hard and build up the necessary resources for these campaigns, I fear that the Left’s machine will stifle many of our proposed activities and events, and could even threaten the September 12 March on Washington, DC.

Don’t let MoveOn.org and others on the Left win! Don’t allow them to slander and dismiss what FreedomWorks and you are working so hard on. Help us by sending your generous contribution today!

Yours in Freedom,

Dick Armey
Chairman
FreedomWorks.org

P.S. I need your help to fight the liberal war chest that is being built to silence FreedomWorks’ opposition to government-run health care, the cap and trade energy tax, and other big government proposals. Please chip in $25, $50, $100 or whatever you can afford today.

What a joke. BOTH sides are doing their best to pit us against each other, not because they are genuinely concerned with our well-being, but because the party in power gets the most money from lobbyists, i'm sure.

I've said this in other threads but people seem so hell bent on partisan position.

The expansion of government has been going on for several decades, and really took off during the Bush administration, and has accelerated under the Obama administration, if the American people want to find motive to revolt, or need to be pissed off simply look at the most recent legislation, first the stimulus plan, the cap and trade bill, and now health care reform.

Educate yourselves, when you see what and who benefits and profits most from these bills and who pays for it ultimately, you will know your place in all of this, and you will not like it.

Let go of the left and right, republican or democrat positions, these are not entirely partisan issues.

The systematic raping of the American people has gone on for far too long, and it is now set to escalate to full blown slavery, if we let it happen.

Bill, I must say that my respect for you has gone up even higher than it was previously. To know that you would post your observations here in spite of the fact that your intentions could be distorted and deemed unprofessional, gives me some measure of hope...at least in the concept that someone out there is still willing to call it like they see it. It also informs me that this site isn't just a cash cow for you, or a vanity project. ( I didn't think that before, I'm just reaffirming that ). I sincerely want to thank you for telling the truth.

As for the state of politics as usual on The Hill, I'm not surprised, to say the least. Your post speaks volumes about the state of peril that we face. How many of us are turning to Jon Stewart and Steven Colbert for an objective viewpoint instead of the traditional media outlets? What does that say about our political health here in America? I'm sorry to be so rhetorical, but I'm nearly speechless.

The people who are raising holy **** over health care are freaking me out, and I'm NOT easily freaked out. Those people appear to have drank the proverbial Kool-Aide, and they're completely intoxicated by it. What happened to the middle ground, where authentic debate takes place, with at least some measure of respect shown for the people whom you have differences with?

I'm slipping off topic, and there's not much more I can say. Thank you again for bringing this ugliness out into the light.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Another government ?



Remember when you are on the top in the most powerful nation in the world, you will get corrupted regardless.

History around the world shows that power corrupts.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

I don't have an answer, but I really don't think that the mechanism of protest and peaceable assembly put into place by the forefathers is going to work. Neither do I think rash, violent, revolution is going to work either. There's got to be a third option for taking our country back.

It's outside the box. And while I have glimpses of the answer, I can't quite put my finger on it...

GENERAL STRIKE is the answer. Organized through the internet.

We make the system run, we take it on our shoulders because we think there is no option. We need to stop doing what we always thought was unavoidable (go to work, go shopping, go to the movies, restaurants, ... stop all of that and just stay at home). We are the ones that support the system, we are the columns of the house-hold. If we withdraw ourselves it will collapse. We stop, the world stops.

We are the ones that have the true power, but we can only exercise that power once we realize we have it. A general strike would make every single individual realize the power we have.

Start spreading the idea. I'm ready to do this, who else is ready?


[edit on 12-8-2009 by Geladinhu]

reply to post by marg6043


I have not given up to the point where I believe all people are corruptible.. or are dependent on political motives..

reply to post by Rockpuck


That is because you are very young and very trusting, we all have been young and trusting and we all been to the point that we believe things can be change.

But in all the years of my life and the various administrations I have been around to see, it proves that is nothing but wishful thinking.

But still those that dare to dream holds the key to the future.

reply to post by Rockpuck

The Internet .. is almost outside of their control. If a controlled method of spreading a message without sensationalism taking hold and running wild.. I would assume that a change could occur in the very way we view politicians and politics.

True, but unless we are vigilant, it may be completely under their control. We need to make sure that they don't pass any bills in the middle of the night that destroy that open avenue.
My concern is a false flag that is somehow based upon internet communications.
I could easily see the politicians using such an "event" to pass tight controls that would essentially prevent any ability to organize and resist.