64 Years ago, Yesterday... (Warning some graphic material)

Warning: The following photos may upset you Warning

Originally posted by visible_villain

Anyways, with all the evidence nowadays that Japan was strongly provoked into attacking Pearl Harbor, it just makes America's eventual use of atomic weapons on two of their major production centers all that much worse ...

And to think - I used to be proud of my country ...

Revisionist CRAP.

Even if that were true Japan was already on a roll in China way before any of that transpired. I highly doubt they were provoked into the atrocities they committed against millions of Chinese and Korean men, women, and children.

Dont think for a second he didnt finish the job!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/42eefe365167.jpg[/atsimg]





[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/44b3dff5daa8.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/64dfc6af2ccc.jpg[/atsimg]





[edit on 7-8-2009 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by visible_villain

Anyways, with all the evidence nowadays that Japan was strongly provoked into attacking Pearl Harbor, it just makes America's eventual use of atomic weapons on two of their major production centers all that much worse ...

And to think - I used to be proud of my country ...

Revisionist CRAP.

Even if that were true Japan was already on a roll in China way before any of that transpired. I highly doubt they were provoked into the atrocities they committed against millions of Chinese and Korean men, women, and children.

Mr. Slayer, with all due respect, I and many others have looked deeply into this matter and have reached our convictions based on the historical evidence.

Your post demonstrates you have not and are only regurgitating the 'official party line' like all the other brainwashed 'patriots' numbly marching along like robots chanting the mantra, "My country, right or wrong" ...

If indeed it is true, and I believe it is, that ATS is still about denying ignorance you owe it to yourself and everybody else here to look into this important matter for yourself, as you have done here recently so admirably with other 'sensational crimes', and then get back to us, perhaps even with another of your praiseworthy research reports.

Maybe the time has come for an open debate among us all on the matter ...

ok, i wont go into all the reasons why we dropped the bombs in japan, my fellow ATSers have done a wonderfull job of that allready, heres what i know;

my grand father was a medic in the CBI theater during ww2 (CHINA,BURMA,INDIA) he saw first hand the horrible things the japanese military did to civillilans
my grandfathers older brother was killled on the arizona, he is still there to this day

the japanese government may have been on the verge of surendering but the people wernt, they would have fought to the last if we would have invaded the japanese mainland

truman did what he had to do and i stand by it %100!!

its very easy for you to sit there and critisize what the USA did 64 years ago........you have all the facts,you have ALL the info sitting on that neat little thing on your desk called a computor.
im tired of the "SHOULDA,WOULDA,COULDA" people out there who think they know better then the people who were actualy there!!, you try to be president for a day, just one day.....imagine the stress truman was going through, i feel he did the right thing

64 years ago we were at war, a very horrible nasty global war that was being fought in multiple locations around the world and our enemy was multiple countrys not just one. my grandfather told me EVERYTHING he went through during that war, he started when i was 13yo, and drilled into my head that war is NEVER a good thing!! but sometimes its nessesary

my only wish is to hope that our children never have to see what GLOBAL WAR is all about


please............be safe people

I dont think it's so much that we've forgotten so much as it's probably best that we didn't throw a party every year celebrating the fact that it happened. Things like this and the holocaust (which Germany is trying hard to ignore) are kind of like living in a small community and sleeping with the neighbors wife, everyone knows about it, everyone talks about it, it was horrible and interrupted everyone's life associated with it.......but for YOU (just that one day) it was the greatest thing going. For America, this day (dropping the bomb) was the greatest day for our technological achievements and the people were duped into clapping with their governement, not knowing the true horrors that had befallen our (supposed) enemies. I have been to Japan and I find them to be pleasant, very nice people....the people, that is, not the government. We, as Americans, seem to be more intelligent now that people of that time and this type of action followed up by population support would not so easily fly anymore.We understand the horrors now and the innocents of regular everyday people. I know what you're thinking. How do you explain Iraq then? Well, again, it's the government.....not US. So we haven't forgotten, it's just that it was the greatest day for our government and a black eye for the American people. When you get a black eye and you are in the supermarket, most try to hide it as much as possible so as not to keep reminding others of your imprudence or inability to protect yourself (whichever the case), the lesson was most likely learned though. No one wants anyone to linger on the black eye. We, as Americans are merely putting makeup on our indiscresions.... not forgetting it. It's the ignoring the proverbial "big gorilla" in the room. Trust me, no one has forgotten. I don't really think the date itself matters, it's what happened that we won't forget.

Originally posted by visible_villain
Your post demonstrates you have not and are only regurgitating the 'official party line' like all the other brainwashed 'patriots' numbly marching along like robots chanting the mantra, "My country, right or wrong" ...

Thank you for your OPINION.

If you haven't noticed yet then let me clue you in on a fact. I'm just about as big and as vocal critic of my Government as they come. The topic was the Bomb and Japan. With all the After the fact Armchair Generaling that goes on here at ATS it's no wonder people are confused about the real history of the situation.

I'm well aware of what some think about the "Provocations" theory. It may even be true. I wont deny that. I would however get to know ALL the facts surrounding the real history.

Can you deny the fact that Japan was already carrying out atrocities before Pearl?

reply to post by silo13


Could you imagine the sickening feeling those that had to do their duty must have felt at that moment?

How about Truman, who had to make the call?

Must be one serious **SNIP**

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 7-8-2009 by Crakeur]

reply to post by silo13


it's kind of like 9-11..

most of us have gotten over it.

you should too.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Good jobe Slayer...

I always find it funny at those that look at things so one sided.

Taking the whole picture into account seems like an impossible task for some...

reply to post by CoffinFeeder

it's kind of like 9-11..

most of us have gotten over it.

you should too.

No other words than: WOW describe that comment.

Does "getting over it" entail forgetting about it?

NEVER

Considering the occasion, I cannot think
of a better contribution than this:



[edit on 7-8-2009 by Trunkeight]

That is what happens when you go to war, innocent people die. The Japanese provoked US into wanting to use those nukes it wasn't a spontaneous thing. It is a sad event but that is a war.

Originally posted by whoshotJR
I agree that its sad people forgot and little is said about it being the 64th anniversary of the bombing although once something passes more then ten years people generally don't talk about it unless it a 5 year mark.

I don't agree with "250 thousand innocent men, women and children.".

It was war and they were killing innocent men and children also, why does it make the US monsters because they won the war? You win a war but blowing up the other person or disabling their ability to continue to fight.

I don't really know where people got this idea that in war people shouldn't die unless they are in uniform but it doesn't happen that way. War is sick and twisted and causes pain and suffering but it's also about domination and each side doing just about anything they can to win over the other at any cost. In this case we had the bomb before they did so we won.

We didn't win because they were more merciful and caring. If given the chance they would have wiped the west coast off the map and we would have been the ones in their position.

Talk about the remembering for the loss of life but don't look to gain much support for your effort with a post like that. War sucks but its reality.

If you have this outlook, then also have the courage to look at those pictures and stomach it. No need to justify or explain anything. It only shows that deep inside, you recognize that somebody was hurt, and it hurts to face that, and if given the choice you would rather look away. Realize that this is hypocrisy.

Go on, defend the actions of the US 64 years ago, if you really believe you must, but have the balls to stare at the result in the face, or else, face your own internal conflict about it.

-rrr

Originally posted by viperdave
64 years ago we were at war, a very horrible nasty global war that was being fought in multiple locations around the world and our enemy was multiple countrys not just one. my grandfather told me EVERYTHING he went through during that war, he started when i was 13yo, and drilled into my head that war is NEVER a good thing!! but sometimes its nessesary

my only wish is to hope that our children never have to see what GLOBAL WAR is all about

Thank your grandfather for his service if he is still around.

Mine didn't say much about what he went through on Tarawa nor did my father about what he went through at Khe Sanh. As a matter of fact I wont bother asking my son about Iraq. I'll respect his privacy as he has mine on such matters.

WAR is HELL and should be avoided at all costs!
That's why it is extremely important to KNOW the facts so we can avoid making the same mistakes.

Good luck with that one

PEACE

Slay









[edit on 7-8-2009 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by SLAYER69

You said :
Can you deny the fact that Japan was already carrying out atrocities before Pearl?

This is just another talking point, one of the most common propaganda techniques.

This agument is entirely irrelevant to the issue.

The implication is that 250,000 Japanese deserved nuclear incineration. A disinngenuous ploy to garner support for the position that it was OK for Truman to commit this unprecedented atrocity on the Japanese.

The real point I'd like to make is that Truman could have summoned the Japanese leadership to a remote Pacific island and demonstrated the weapon. Clearly, any rational leadership would have surrendered after witnessing the new weapon's awesome destructive power.

If they didn't at that point, and we had to take out some of their cities with it, then at least future generations could not have claimed the US had a complete and utter disregard for innocent human life ...

You said :
If you haven't noticed yet then let me clue you in on a fact. I'm just about as big and as vocal critic of my Government as they come.

Yes, I have noticed, and IMHO you show a great deal of potential ...

reply to post by rickyrrr

Go on, defend the actions of the US 64 years ago

There is nothing to defend. It is my opinion that even the Japanese know that they needed the bombs dropped on them. I have never felt any resentment from any Japanese person over Nagasaki or Hiroshima. I get resentment from the occasional unmarried Japanese man for being married to a Japanese woman, and in Japan the occasional Japanese man makes a vulgar comment about my wife because of our marriage. However, I have not once been given any grief by any Japanese person for the bombings.

If only we could all learn something from the Japanese. They went from being one the most militaristic cultures in history to a nation of pacifists in a matter of days.

reply to post by visible_villain

This agument is entirely irrelevant to the issue.

I disagree that it is irrelevant. Because it showed the mentality of the Japanese and what they were willing to do to anyone they deemed inferior. Americans were most definitely scum barbarians unconsiderable of worth to the average Japanese.

And because of their unwavering religious beliefs I believe there never would have been an unconditional surrender by any Japanese if their had been an invasion.

And I also believe they did directly and without veil tell the Japanese leadership what would happen if they did not unconditionally surrender.

The Japanese leadership knew. They knew before the first bomb and they knew after the first bomb. It is telling it had to take two detonations over largely populated ares for them to give up completely.

reply to post by habfan1968

Given your freedoms today which you have because of the way the second world war ended.

Pray tell what *freedoms* the American people have today because of the bomb drop on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

I can’t even fathom where this is going, sorry.

Originally posted by IntastellaBurst

I dont want to take away from the meaning of the article, ... but whats the significance of the 64 year anniversary ??? next year it will be 65 years, ... should we observe it as a holiday or something ??

I think the sad thing is .... Japan had already surrendered before the bombs were dropped. ... but the US wanted revenge for Pearl Harbour, ... as well as being able to test the new weapon on a population.

[edit on 7-8-2009 by IntastellaBurst]

Your history book must be flawed.
We were going to invade Japan.
Over a million lives could have been lost doing that.
Look how many lives were lost on Okinawa.
Truman made the call to save lives and drop the Atomic bombs.
It worked.
Japan surrendered and the rest is history.
Look at Japan today.
I call that a happy ending.

Fox news had a nice story on it, including some graphic images and interviews with a survivor. It was a terrible thing but just as many lives would have been lost if the war went on without those 2 bombs. We would have carpet bombed most of Japan and lead a massive ground invasion. It most likely would have been more devastating, especially to US troops than Dday or anything else in WWII.

reply to post by visible_villain

Anyways, with all the evidence nowadays that Japan was strongly provoked into attacking Pearl Harbor, it just makes America's eventual use of atomic weapons on two of their major production centers all that much worse ...

I’ve wanted to bring Pearl Harbor into this since about the third reply to the thread - problem is can we do it and stay on topic.

I believe it is a HUGE part of the whole story.

Thank you for introducing this information and I hope discussing the precursor to the bombing will not be seen as off topic by the Mods.

Thanks again...