Did you know? Obama’s half sister, born in Indonesia, has a Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Your buddy ran off again WhatTheory.

Why is he my buddy?
Perhaps he is on a different schedule than you. Not everybody is on your internet schedule.

Why is it that when you fellas are actually challanged with a valid argument you run away? instead of addressing it?

That is your flawed and incorrect assumption. People have countered and answered every one of your questions. You do realize that when you keep repeating yourself like a parrot by asking the same questions over and over, people will eventually stop responding because they are tired of giving you the same responses.

Where is Mayas supposed short form birth certificate? Where did she say she had a short form Hawaiian birth certificate?

I don't know. You tell me.
Not everybody has a birth certificate online.

No matter what side of the argument you are on, all we can do is link to articles we find online as evidence to help support one's case. Whether people believe it's valid or not is up to them to decide.

Statute 338 came out in 1982

So what?
What was the law prior to 1982?

[edit on 7/29/2009 by WhatTheory]

Originally posted by WhatTheory
I don't know. You tell me.

Not everybody has a birth certificate online.

So basically you admit that there is no proof Maya Soetoro even has a short form Hawaiian birth certificate or even claimed she did?

So what?
What was the law prior to 1982?

Right. I think Im done here. Another hyped up hollow claim made by the fringe blogs.

SG

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
So basically you admit that there is no proof Maya Soetoro even has a short form Hawaiian birth certificate or even claimed she did?

You mean except for the articles posted right?

Right. I think Im done here. Another hyped up hollow claim made by the fringe blogs.

So I guess you did not know the answer.
Talk about running away. Oh, the irony.

In the interest of being informed, and denying ignorance, I spent a couple of hours last night and again this morning doing on-line research on Maya Soetoro AKA Maya Soetoro-Ng.

I wanted to find any information that either confirmed or refuted the claim of this OP. What did I find? Nothing at all.

I've listened to youtubes of Ms. Soetoro-Ng talking, interviews with her, written interviews, etc.etc. Nothing so far that I've found where she says she has a Hawaii birth certificate. There is little question she was born in Indonesia, however the second part of the claim of this thread's main story remains unsupported, other than third-party claims about Ms. Soetoro.

NO CONFIRMATION.

Personally I have no problem with someone running a country that may not have been born there... but even in light of current events, I still don't buy Obama's story. It seems weird that he feels he must legislate the 'truth'. Why all the subterfuge?

It makes me think of Jello Biafra's famous words from "Shut Up, Be Happy".

"The number one enemy of 'progress' is questions"

IRM

[edit on 29/7/09 by InfaRedMan]

Originally posted by debunky
reply to post by nasdack24k

 

Before you judge someone by his number of SSNs, please provide a reason why you, nasdack24k, (yes, you, as in nasdack24k, the ATS poster) have 26 SSN numbers? If you doubt you have that many, It is absolutely no problem for me to write that you do on a blog.

Now please explain how you got them and what you needed them for?

If obama is innocent, then why does he have so VERY much to hide ?

2nd line.

reply to post by gravitybender


I will admit that I have never heard of a "certification of live birth" before Obama got elected.

So, I went and did some digging of my own today.

Barack Obama's "Live Birth" Certificate

According to World News Daily, this is what a "long form" should look like :

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3526a9b6d78d.jpg[/atsimg]Picture courtesy of Worlds News Daily : Example Birth Certificate : Long Form

According to World News Daily, this is what a "short form" should look like :

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1b2877ac9d78.jpg[/atsimg]Courtesy of Worlds News Daily : Birth Certificate of Barack Obama(Short Form)

Wikipedia : Birth Cerficate

According to Wikipedia, this is what the "long form" should look like :

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/54b6a2cd298b.gif[/atsimg]Picture courtesy of Wikipedia : Example Birth Certificate : Long Form

According to Wikipedia, this is what the "short form" should look like :

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/af0544051d47.gif[/atsimg]Picture courtesy of Wikipedia : Example Birth Certificate : Short Form

From the way I understand this there are two different types of forms for the Hawaiin for of the "birth certificate".

Seems like something very odd to me, to say the least, that there would be two different forms, a "long form" and a "short form".

So, what I am going to ask here, is what significance is there to these two types of forms?

I know one looks like it's asking for many pieces of information, the "long form", and the other looks like anyone could print it out, or get it out of a Crackerjacks box, the "short form".


[edit on 29-7-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Reply to post by warrenb

Amen to that warrenb! IGNORANCE IS BLISS until your humanity is stripped away. My 3RD car had WHO CARES on my windshield. Looking back I see what not caring cost me. There is time in ones life when they must say OK I think it is time I started to give a crap about. And say what you will NOW is the time for such thinking! We really shouldnt wait for TSHTF because everyone will be affected in one way or another NO MATTER IF YOU CARE OR NOT! Its ok though. I take pride in knowing I am not as easily deceived and manipulated as the WHO CARES crowd. Look at the new generation in America. By far the largest herd of sheep ever in the history of mankind. And they take pride in that as well. For now.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

New York also has the long & short forms. I have one of each for my three children. The long form I recieved at the the hospital itself when my kids were born, the short form is a copy we picked up at the town hall.

The long forms we have each have the attending doctors signature, as well as information on myself and my husband. I also noticed it has my maiden name, not my married name, but it does list our marital status. (honestly never noticed that before)

I don't know if this works the same in Hawaii, but that is how it works here.

As for the topic. I can say I'm growing tired of it all. There is no logical reason at this point IMO for Obama to continue to withhold his long form. This simple action would squash a growing distrust for him & it makes no sense that he would not want this to be delt with now.

IMO, it should of never gone on this long, it should of been handled immediately & we should be focusing on his action in office. Instead, we are left to wonder why he has, thus far, hidden his past from public view, acting as a man with a great deal to hide rather than a pillar of "open government" as he has touted.

Leaving minds to wonder is a dangerous game IMO. Even the most level-headed person can really think of some big secrets that he may be hiding in his closet & the longer this goes on, the worse it will get.

To that end, I really wish he would just present the long form & all the other records that the American people have the right to view. Many find it hard to trust a man with our very lives when he seems to want to hide his own so much.

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by drwizardphd
Have you considered, possibly, that when they digitalized all of the information from the old birth certificates in 2001 they decided to use a more "PC" term for race than 'Negro' (which has gained quite a reputation as a racist term lately in the US)?

How convienent.

No, I don't buying what you are selling.

don't you think it's counter-intuitive to your "cause" when it lists his birthplace as Honolulu?

Not when it lists him as a citizen of indonesia.

Your logic is hard to follow. You if you're a citizen of a place, you can't be born in another place?

Originally posted by lynn112
As for the topic. I can say I'm growing tired of it all. There is no logical reason at this point IMO for Obama to continue to withhold his long form. This simple action would squash a growing distrust for him & it makes no sense that he would not want this to be delt with now.

IMO, it should of never gone on this long, it should of been handled immediately & we should be focusing on his action in office. Instead, we are left to wonder why he has, thus far, hidden his past from public view, acting as a man with a great deal to hide rather than a pillar of "open government" as he has touted.

Leaving minds to wonder is a dangerous game IMO. Even the most level-headed person can really think of some big secrets that he may be hiding in his closet & the longer this goes on, the worse it will get.

To that end, I really wish he would just present the long form & all the other records that the American people have the right to view. Many find it hard to trust a man with our very lives when he seems to want to hide his own so much.

You'll just find something else to pick nits over. There is NOTHING that requires him to show the form and honestly, at this point, if it were me, I'd not show it on principle of privacy alone. How about we make EVERYONE'S birth certificates available to ANYONE? Lets take it a step further... Why don't we just make ALL information about all US Citizens available to anyone? Phone numbers, addresses, salaries, SSN's... Let nothing hide. Shine a light on it all. If you're willing to give up HIS information, then you should have no problem giving up your own.

Originally posted by debunky
That is exactly the point hazelnut!

All we have on the SSNs is one blog post, referring to an unnamed PI.
Same here. One blogpost claims Obamas Sister has a COLB.

It must be true then, right

@nasdack: no. She has a different piece of paper. If she had the same it would say "barack obama" for once. Same type of paper: maybe (s.a). What it says on it is pretty crucial, wouldnt you agree?

[edit on 28-7-2009 by debunky]

[edit on 28-7-2009 by debunky]

Debunky, I have evidence indicating that you are unconvicted serial killer. You've killed at least 25 people across 11 states. You can clear up this controversy by submitting to a several polygraph tests conducted in a state of my choosing. I would like to see your employment and IRS records in order to prove you were not in the states you are alleged to have committed the crimes in.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


The short form birth certificate is the official birth certificate of the state of Hawaii. It is the only one that an Hawaii-born citizen can acquire from the government.

Hawaii again declares Obama birth certificate real By JAYMES SONG, Associated Press Writer Jaymes Song, Associated Press

HONOLULU – State officials in Hawaii on Monday said they have once again checked and confirmed that President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen, and therefore meets a key constitutional requirement for being president.

They hoped to stem a recent surge in the number of inquiries about Obama's birthplace.

"I ... have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen," Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said in a brief statement. "I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago."

So-called "birthers" — who claim Obama is ineligible to be president because, they argue, he was actually born outside the United States — have grown more vocal recently on blogs and television news shows.

Fukino issued a similar press release Oct. 31, but was prompted to speak out again because of the renewed attention on Obama's beginnings. Hawaii's Health Department has been flooded in recent weeks with questions from individuals and several national TV news networks asking for proof that Obama was indeed born in Hawaii.

"They just keep asking over and over and over again," Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo said.

The Constitution states that a person must be a "natural-born citizen" to be eligible for the presidency. Birthers contend that Obama's birth certificate is a fake, and many say he was actually born in Kenya, his father's homeland. They've challenged his citizenship in court.

One widely circulated YouTube clip of a town hall meeting showed a Republican congressman getting booed for saying Obama is a citizen. Talk show host Rush Limbaugh and CNN's Lou Dobbs have also raised the issue, and 10 Republican members of Congress co-sponsored a bill that would require future presidential candidates to provide a copy of their original birth certificate.

However, it appears Congress has moved on and has accepted Obama's island birthplace. The U.S. House on Monday unanimously approved a resolution recognizing and celebrating the 50th anniversary of Hawaii becoming the 50th state. A clause was included that reads: "Whereas the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961."

State law bars the release of a certified birth certificate to anyone who does not have a tangible interest.

However, Obama's birth certificate along with birth notices from the two Honolulu newspapers were brought forward even before he took office. But that's done nothing to shake the belief by many Obama critics that the president was born abroad.



[edit on 29-7-2009 by andrewh7]

It doesn't really matter if she does have a Hawaiian COLB, as you can get those for foreign born children living in Hawaii (and this has been a birther talking point since very early on).

But a COLB for a foreign born child will list the "true or probable" place of birth.

Originally posted by EYEOFEAGLE

Originally posted by gravitybender
Heard this on the radio today.

Maya Soetoro was born to Indonesian businessman Lolo Soetoro and American cultural anthropologist Ann Dunham and half-sister to the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama. While living in Indonesia, she was home schooled by her mother and then attended Jakarta International School and returned to Hawaii and attended the private Punahou School in Honolulu, Hawaii, graduating in 1988.


Besides being the First Sister Maya has a HawaiiaCertification of Live Birth despite be born in Jakarta Indonesia. Supposedly this certificate was used by the Daily Kos to forge an Obama version. Anyone find it odd that Maya, undisputedly born in Indonesia, would have the same type of document as Barack Obama to forge?

Here's the link to the article: Link Here

Great info!

Please get this on twitter as fast as you can. Post it under Obama birth certificate. Also mention that you would like to see how old Obama's vault copy of his original birth certificate, if he has one, is. This will tell instantly if it has been faked or reproduced. As long as I breath, I will never let this go until he provides perfect proof of born on US Soil or he Resigns or is arrested and sent to prison for life for HIGH TREASON AGAINST THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, in time of WAR!!!!!! He and his co-horts that knowingly participated in this fiasco.

If this case went to court right now with the evidence at hand that the public has access to, he would lose, be convicted of TREASON and most of his staff would be charged with aiding and abedding.

Watching sharply,

Eye of Eagle

Eye of Eagle

I'm sorry you feel that way...

You guys are really not worth my...or anyone elses energy.

Folks keep mistaking birthers for people that care about the truth.

No shame, no dignity, just hate...the birthers GOP.

Yes...GOP...it is where this propaganda spews from...far right Blogs.

I am taking a break from ATS for while and you guys can continue to ...well ...do what you do.

I hope you get better soon.

Originally posted by lynn112
As for the topic. I can say I'm growing tired of it all. There is no logical reason at this point IMO for Obama to continue to withhold his long form. This simple action would squash a growing distrust for him & it makes no sense that he would not want this to be delt with now.

IMO, it should of never gone on this long, it should of been handled immediately & we should be focusing on his action in office. Instead, we are left to wonder why he has, thus far, hidden his past from public view, acting as a man with a great deal to hide rather than a pillar of "open government" as he has touted.

Leaving minds to wonder is a dangerous game IMO. Even the most level-headed person can really think of some big secrets that he may be hiding in his closet & the longer this goes on, the worse it will get.

To that end, I really wish he would just present the long form & all the other records that the American people have the right to view. Many find it hard to trust a man with our very lives when he seems to want to hide his own so much.

Well said Lynn, star for your post. I'm growing tired of it all too, especially the name calling and ad hominem attacks between left and right. There are so many distractions and evasive arguments about why the long form isn't presented by Obama, but it's time to present it and let factcheck have a look at it like they did with the short form.

As for the OP and the topic of this thread about Maya's birth certificate, as much as I want Obama to just release his long form and get this whole silly debate over with, I fear this is another distraction from the real issue of Obama not releasing his long form, so we should keep the focus on that. I have to agree with the non-birthers that until we see some real proof or evidence of Maya's certificate, it's just blog speculation. And I must admit I'm part of the "I don't care" crowd about Maya's certificate since she's not running the country.

What I DO CARE about is the release of the long form certificate by the guy who IS running the country. OK we've all seen the short form, and yeah it's real as factcheck has verified. Now let's see the long form please, let factcheck have a look at that, and end this silly debate.

Media Viciousness and Obfuscating the Meaning of “Natural Born Citizen”

canadafreepress.com...

1.There is a difference in meaning between the terms “Citizen” and “Natural Born Citizen”. The Supreme Court would not have said, “The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens.”
2.It is necessary to look outside the Constitution to gleam the framers’ intended meaning. “Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar…” Note: one such reference with which the framers would have been familiar is The Law of Nations or the Principles of Natural Law (1758) by Emmerich de Vattel. See the work of Leo Donofrio for a more complete explanation of who can be a “Natural Born Citizen.” (Linking to Mr. Donofrio’s site just now, I discovered he is also writing about Dr. Fukino today I’ll read it later.)


3.Given that Minor was decided 6 years after the adoption of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, using a 14th Amendment argument to make Mr. Obama a “Natural Born Citizen” seems disingenuous. If the 14th Amendment had been intended to modify the meaning of the term “Natural Born Citizen”, it would have mentioned it.
4.There is no doubt that a person born to two “Citizens” of the United States in the United States is a “Natural Born Citizen.” “… there have been doubts, but never as to the first.” This is the “first” situation the Court was talking about.>


1.The possibility has not been ruled out (reading the above paragraph) that a person born outside the U. S. to parents who are both U.S. Citizens is not a “Natural Born Citizen”. This is similar to the McCain situation. This question certainly deserves clarification. My gut says such a person would be a “Natural Born Citizen” as long as there are not multiple citizenship possibilities involved.
2.There is doubt that a person born in the United States to parents, one or both of whom are not “Citizens”, can be a “Natural Born Citizen”. “Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their [88 U.S. 162, 168] parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first.” Again the issue of multiple citizenships/allegiances arises..3.Given the situation above (6), there would be doubts that a person born outside the United States “without reference to the citizenship of their parents” can be a “Natural Born Citizen.”
4.The Supreme Court in Minor (6 years post 14th Amendment) did not resolve these doubts. “For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts.”
5.Therefore, even if Obama was born in Hawaii, his eligibility to serve as President has not been resolved, as his father was not a “Citizen” and multiple allegiances could be in play. (Kenya/Indonesia/Adoption/British Law)

It amazes me how many on ATS take this at face value without any evidence AT ALL supporting this persons claims. Embracing ignorance? This just gives wind to my theory even more, this isn't about people wanting the truth, they most likely just don't like Obama and jump at anything that paints him as an 'Outsider'. Ridiculous.

[edit on 7/29/2009 by Uniceft17]

After seeing thread after thread on this, I've formulated a new standard to apply to this entire debate. When the "Birthers" come with documentary proof (not stories, but actual documentation from official sources) that Obama was born anywhere outside of US territory, I'll start paying attention. Until then, I'll join the other 93% of Americans who shake their heads and wonder why you have nothing better to occupy your time.
You continue to clamor that Obama must prove his place of birth, but you have it all wrong. The Federal Elections Commission is satisfied that he is a "natural-born" citizen. Actually folks, that's all that counts. YOU now have to prove he isn't. Hop to it!!