The Rise of the Birther Movement and It's Aims.

Originally posted by Adonsa
There's no such word as "birther."

If you dont like the term birther prove your not. Prove to us here that your campaign to bring up this conspiracy at every opportunity goes beyond the realm of "hypothetical scenarios" "speculation" and "questions". Prove to us there is actually solid evidence behind this theory.

The laser printed form is what Hawaii gives anyone who was born anywhere and is not the same as a REAL birth certificate.

Fukina and other health officials personally verified Obamas short form birth certificate which was not lasered by the way. There was clearely a raised seal and the signiture of the director for the Hawaiian health department. In addition the state confirmed that Obama had sufficiently proven he was eligible enough by birthright for the presidency.

You may not feel it was sufficient enough, you may not be satisfied with what every the man does in his presidency, that doesnt mean his obligated by law to show you anything further, neither does it your "questions" are going to get your demands met.

Barry Setoro's own grandmother stated for the record that she was there in Kenya when he was born in Kenya

Are you refering to the audio tape of his "supposed step grandmother"? Iv discussed this matter time and time again. Firstly here you have a tape that is unauthenticated, unconfirmed, of Obamas third step grandmother. Thats your flaw right there, anybody can go on and make audio tape of somebody pretending to be somebody else. For all the talk of Obamas state verified short form birth certificate not being sufficient evidence of his birth you folks certainly seem to take in the audio tape as authentic, no questions asked.

Secondly, if you actually listen to the audio tape, the grandmother makes it clear she is reference to Obamas father, Barack Obama snr. When the radio host trys to lead this woman into saying "barack Obama, president", she corrects him by saying Barack Obama senior, the father.

Audio tape
www.youtube.com...

Heres a clue, Sarah continously refers to her son being born in Kenya.

right.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Fukina and other health officials personally verified Obamas short form birth certificate ...

.... and made fools out of themselves because Jay McKinnon admitted the forgery and Daily Kos then took down their forgery off their website. Those peabrains in Hawaii 'confirmed' an admitted fake.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
.... and made fools out of themselves because Jay McKinnon admitted the forgery

Jay McKinnon admitted to the forgery and I admit I attempted to kill Reagan in 81'. Im also santa clause.

For all the talk this man hasnt presented sufficient evidence, you certainly take a guy by his word.

SG

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Not everybody will be satisfied with what this man does, not everybody will be satisfied with this man being voted in. Fortunatley in these United states the president doesnt have to satisfy every single individual in the nation.... the rest of the nation and the world doesnt give a cats hair what the birthers "just want to see". Apart from the fact you will inevitably continue to cry foul so long as this mans president, Obama has under law proven sufficiently his birth right for the presidency. He is not obligated to show anything any further. The campaigns over and its time birthers to get over the fact he proved sufficiently by law his eligibility and was voted in president.

If you really feel there is something to this conspiracy, gather up the solid evidence he was born off soil, because thats the only way you will probably get him to release more documents to prove otherwise.

Quoted for truth and agreement. (A single star isn't fitting enough.) Edited for brevity.

SG You are a great champion of truth, wisdom and knowledge. Please continue the good fight.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
Because it hasn't been proven fake.

Yes it has. Jay McKinnon admitted making the forgeries for Daily Kos and when he admitted it, Daily Kos pulled them off their website.

The State of Hawaii verified they have the record of his birth and he was indeed born there.

Not true. Hawaii said they have his original BC in a vault there.
They did NOT verifiy his birth in Hawaii.

McKinnon has serious crediblity issues....

Besides that why would Hawaii have his original birth certificate if he wasn't born there?

For any of your idiotic theories to be true there would have to be a long standing...since his birth actually... conspiracy to get Obama elected.

Originally posted by grover
McKinnon has serious crediblity issues....

He admitted to it. Immeditely Daily Kos took the fake certificate down.
If McKinnon hadn't done it, Daily Kos would have left it up and stood
by it.

why would Hawaii have his original birth certificate if he wasn't born there?

Did you see my example? I posted it twice. Here's a third time ....
My daughter was born in Santa Cruz Bolivia. She's adopted. Her birth certificate is now in Atlanta Georgia.

For any of your idiotic theories

Now now grover. I've always been polite to you. Try to do the same.

have to be a long standing...since his birth actually... conspiracy to get Obama elected.

That's not true at all.

It would mean that his mother wanted to be sure that her son was accepted as an American and that there was no question about it - for obvious reasons. it's much more advantageous to be an American then a Kenyan. More advantages ... more perks .... access to better schools and better health care ... more advantages in the system. And she would have had her own motives as well.

FlyersFan and other "Birthers": The central problem you are having convincing rational people that Obama is not qualified to be President is your ignorance of administrative law. First, Obama has to provide to the Federal Elections Board documentary evidence that he meets the candidacy requirements. The Federal Elections Board is not required to show YOU one damned thing. This disappoints you, I know. Secondly, all this crap about the long form BC being the only acceptable form for this and that is in error many tyimes. One, I received both personal and diplomatic passports on the basis of the "short form" (no hospital, no doctor). I also applied for and received highly responsible federal employment on the strength of the "short form". Am I thrilled with President Obama? No. Do I think he was born in Kenya or Zeti Reticuli, no. Sometimes you just need to accept the fact that entities such as the Federal Elections Commission don't actally owe you an explanation.

Originally posted by Wimbly

So, how is this different than the multiple movements, support by democrats to make Bush look like he was illegitimate, a crimminal, a monster and maybe even behind 9/11? Why do people on the left seem to think they have a special pass for this stuff?

Its like you guys never heard the phrase, what goes around, comes around.

You seriously think there is ANY comparison between Bush co and Obama co?

If you do I very truly feel sorry for you mate.

Your gonna cry over a birth certificate not being 'good enough' yet Bush spent 8 years destroying the constitution and the legitimacy of the USA.

To think that these two administrations are comparable is absolutely ridiculous.

And if it is simply a matter of 'what goes around comes around' then I would say your party is being so childishly petty that they really do not deserve to serve in any office.

Back on topic...

I believe this campaign is classic disinfo designed to discredit all conspiracy questions and protect REAL criminals.

The birther movement IS the race card being played masterfully by TPTB. It allows people to hate Obama for not being a "real" American.

It is dangerous in that it encourages mentally unbalanced persons to "protect and defend" the US from this black, muslim, foreigner who somehow managed to hijack the greatest nation on earth. Which should be taken as a very serious threat to his well being.

I do not support Obama's policies...he is another empty suit working for corporate Amerika and the oligarchs that control our nation.

However, I see this movement as designed to deflect attention and justice from real issues(Wall St, 9/11, illegal wars, torture etc) and for the moment it appears to be working.

Divide and conquer! When will poor white working people learn to vote in their own interests...probably never.

reply to post by FlyersFan

I admit I had sex with Ann Coulter. (ugh...I was drunk and desperate and I still don't know if she's a man or woman )

Doesn't mean its true though.

I mean really flyer....think.

[edit on 24-7-2009 by grover]

Originally posted by Animal
1, there is a deep resentment of colored people that causes those in this roll to consciously question his validity. 2, there are those who dont care about the truth and simply want to weaken this 'black' mans right to be in office and his power to excersize the power of his office fully.

Why is it almost ALWAYS the Obama Backers that are the FIRST to pull the Race Card?

He is black. He is a Human being. He has certain unalienable rights as a US citizen, born OR transplanted.

HE IS THE PRESIDENT: that being said;

for him to try and Hide Behind some Omnipotent curtain is quite similar to Angelina Jolie demanding the paparazzi is not allowed to follow her around.

He is in the limelight, because he is president, and he is demanding that everyone in the nation should be accountable, But he certainly is NOT. For the Trillionth time, if he has nothing to hide, whats the big deal?


THE ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE IS NOT THE EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE.


[edit on 24-7-2009 by drsmooth23]

Originally posted by Office 4256
FlyersFan and other "Birthers":

I'm not a 'birther'. That made up hard left drivel means nothing.
AND ... as I said before ... I do believe he was probably born in Hawaii.

The central problem you are having convincing rational people that Obama is not qualified to be President is your ignorance of administrative law.

You just made two mistakes. First - some of the obamatrons are not rational people and second, we understand the law perfectly well.

Obama has to provide to the Federal Elections Board documentary evidence that he meets the candidacy requirements.

Grover and I already brought this up. WHO EXACTLY on the FEC gave Obama the stamp of approval? Which person/persons? And what exactly were they shown?

Originally posted by Animal
You seriously think there is ANY comparison between Bush co and Obama co?

Not addressed to me but I'll respond - I'm not seeing much of a difference except 'window dressing' (abortion issues, etc) Bush started the destruction and Obama is speeding it along ...

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
The birther movement IS the race card being played masterfully by TPTB.

:shk: :shk:

Originally posted by grover
Why should a paper leave up what was an obvious fabrication?
I mean really flyer....think.

GROVER! You finally got it!

- Left wing Daily Kos puts up a McKinnon forgery.
- Other internet sites pick up the forged document and run it as 'real'.
- The morons in Hawaii 'confirm' the forgery as real - long distance and over the internet. :shk:
- Debunkers have a FIELD DAY with the 'obvious fabrication' *(your words)
- McKinnon admits he made the forgery.
- Daily Kos is forced to take down the forgery.

Praise the stars above! Grover .. ya' got it.



[edit on 7/24/2009 by FlyersFan]

more evidence of the right-wings attempt to make Obama appear to be an illegitimate outsider surfaces today.

G. Gordon Liddy says Obama is an ‘illegal alien’ born in a ‘hospital in Mombasa.’

MATTHEWS: He [Obama] wasn’t born here and he’s never gone through a naturalization that you know of, right?

LIDDY: Not that I know of.

MATTHEWS: Therefore he’s here illegally. You’re saying he’s an undocumented alien.

LIDDY: Illegal alien.

MATTHEWS: You’ve said he was born in the Kenyan slums. That means he’s an illegal alien. That means he’s not only illegally president, he’s illegal in the US and he ought to be picked up…by your account he’s illegally in the country…how would you claim he was born in the Kenyan slums? You say that as if it were a fact…Do we have any evidence it ever happened?…

LIDDY: Yeah, I’ve got the deposition of the step-grandmother who said she witnessed it.

This not only demonstrates the continued attempts by those in power to systematically illegitimize Obama by smearing his name this is also demonstrative of a racial bias against Obama.

Originally posted by Animal
This not only demonstrates the continued attempts by those in power to systematically illegitimize Obama by smearing his name this is also demonstrative of a racial bias against Obama.

How exactly is that racial in nature?
Because someone dares to question a guy who happens to have black skin? :shk:

How exactly is bringing legal documents and the truth to the surface 'systematically illegitimizing Obama and smearing his name'?

Originally posted by FlyersFan
AND ... as I said before ... I do believe he was probably born in Hawaii.

So what is your point then Flyers? Would you be so kind as to lay it out in the open for us?

Make is all plain and simple. If you believe he is a citizen what is it you question? What is it you are arguing? Because I would say it if fairly safe to say based on your posts that you are clearly a birther who is out to discredit Obama in exactly the same manner.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Animal
This not only demonstrates the continued attempts by those in power to systematically illegitimize Obama by smearing his name this is also demonstrative of a racial bias against Obama.

How exactly is that racial in nature?
Because someone dares to question a guy who happens to have black skin? :shk:

How exactly is bringing legal documents and the truth to the surface 'systematically illegitimizing Obama and smearing his name'?

Nope because NO1, there is no PROOF Obama is not a legitimate citizen. As such an attempt to paint him as a 'illegal immigrant' born in the 'slums of Kenya' is a clear attempt being made to further defame the man. It is clearly playing the RACE card against Obama. 'Look he is not one of us he is from the slums of Africa'.

This man brought ZERO legal documents to the surface, what are you talking about? He says he had a "conversation" with the step mother who told him Obama was born in Kenya, he provides nothing but his word. As to the truth, I doubt it. This is after all the man who led the Water-Gate break ins, not exactly a reputable man.

Originally posted by Animal
So what is your point then Flyers? Would you be so kind as to lay it out in the open for us?

I have many times. Sure .. I'll do it again.
(although my 'opinion' isn't the subject of the thread)

I believe Obama was probably born in Hawaii.
There is NO public evidence to show that he was.
I just think he probably was. The reason is that I dont' see his mother flying around the planet at 8 months pregnant.

Those that question where he was born have a legitimate question.
He has hired teams of lawyers to keep his birth certificate hidden.
A man with nothing to hide wouldn't do that.

He is hiding something. The American people have a right to know everything about the POTUS they elected and that they are supposed to trust.

This is NOT 'transparency'. This is just more of the same politics that we've suffered through for decades and decades. It's a facade. We the people have a right to know EVERYTHING about a person before we put them in charge of this country and our defenses. EVERYTHING. (don't bother quoting privacy rights .. a POTUS gives them up and he/she knows that giving it up is part of the POTUS job) Obviously Obama is hiding something that he consides to be extremely important to his political career.

Covering up = lie.
When this is realized - 'POP' goes the 'change, hope, unity, transparency' bubble.
The koolaid stops flowing. People wake up.
Obama (Jimmy Carter II) is then 'out' in 2012.

He has broken ALL of his campaign promises and he's covering up. He is obviously 'politics as usual' instead of just the opposite, which is the platform he ran on.

So ... he's born in Hawaii? Probably.
So .. he's hiding something important? Absolutely.

There .. does that answer your question?

OKAY all of you silly blithers chew on this:

washingtonindependent.com...

McCain Campaign Investigated, Dismissed Obama Citizenship Rumors

“We monitored the progress of these lawsuits against the Obama campaign,” said Trevor Potter, a Washington attorney who served as general counsel to the 2008 and 2000 McCain presidential campaigns. “The McCain campaign faced a series of lawsuits like this, too, alleging that he could not be president because he was born in the Panama Canal Zone. Both campaigns took the position that these plaintiffs lacked standing.”

But the flawed conception of the many “birther” lawsuits, coupled with the inexperience and foul-ups of “birther” lawyers, have only fed the frenzy over Obama’s legitimacy to serve as president of the United States. A survey of the lawsuits filed against Obama reveals a reliance on widely debunked rumors, bogus stories sourced back to web sites, affidavits from “experts” who refuse to provide credentials or even their real names, and frequent and blatant misunderstandings of basic constitutional law. The dismissal of “birther” lawsuits has allowed conspiracy theorists to believe that the information in those suits is accurate–a belief that manifests itself in the emails, phone calls, and town hall meeting rants that have pushed the theories into the mainstream media and the halls of Congress.

While they ruled out any chance of the ‘birther’ lawsuits holding up in court, lawyers for the McCain campaign did check into the rumors about Obama’s birth and the assertions made by Berg and others. “To the extent that we could, we looked into the substantive side of these allegations,” said Potter. “We never saw any evidence that then-Senator Obama had been born outside of the United States. We saw rumors, but nothing that could be sourced to evidence. There were no statements and no documents that suggested he was born somewhere else. On the other side, there was proof that he was born in Hawaii. There was a certificate issued by the state’s Department of Health, and the responsible official in the state saying that he had personally seen the original certificate. There was a birth announcement in the Honolulu Advertiser, which would be very difficult to invent or plant 47 years in advance.”

Do you really think for a moment if the McCain camp could have discovered anything along these lines...they wouldn't have used it?

AND they had the resources to mount a serious inquiry.

Originally posted by Animal
there is no PROOF Obama is not a legitimate citizen.

there is no PROOF Obama IS a legitimate citizen.

It is clearly playing the RACE card against Obama. 'Look he is not one of us he is from the slums of Africa'.

I'm not seeing it.

he provides nothing but his word.

Same with Obama.

As to the truth, I doubt it. This is after all the man who led the Water-Gate break ins, not exactly a reputable man.

Ref Obama ..
As to the truth, I doubt it. This is, after all, the man who lied over and over about nearly everything during the campaign.

158 Obama lies documented
The Audacity of Hypocrisy - list of some of Obama's lies

My favorite Obama lie ... he credits the civil rights marches in Selma with his parents getting all hot and bothered and 'procreating' him. (not possible .. he was conceived at a much different time period).



Not exactly a reputable man.

reply to post by grover


grover .. buddy ... McCain didn't exactly run the best campaign in the world. He botched it from the beginning. If ANYONE had the nefarious resources to dig up dirt it would have been Hillary. Obviously the NWO people yanked her back and put her on a short leash.

** edited to add the word 'nefarious' .. because, afterall, we are talking about Hillary.

[edit on 7/24/2009 by FlyersFan]