The Rise of the Birther Movement and It's Aims.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Animal
a big fat sarcastic thanks to those who chose to derail this thread

A big fat sarcastic thanks to you, the OP, who decided to start a thread under the FALSE premise of discussing the 'birther movenment and it's aims' but then proceeded to discount the very reason .. the very aim ... of those who call into question Obama's birth.

The burden of proof is on the 'birther movement'. The movement who has ignored every shred of proof that has been revealed to them for one reason or another, and sadly never for any good reason.

This thread was to discuss the motives behind those in power who are keeping this movement alive and well through the continued manipulation of those who contribute themselves as fodder to the movement.

Sure, you continue to question Obama's legitimacy, but you do so because you are fed paranoid and fanantical data that is false.

The only proof the birther movement has is taking the evidence and claiming for one reason or another that they are forged with no real evidence to support the claims.

The birther movement ignores the hawaiian officials who have stated he is a citizen.

The birther movement had taken the birth certificate and claimed for many reasons that it is not enough.

So why is it that the movement continues? Who is feeding this fire of paranoia and sadly hate?

There is a group above the masses that is feeding it with out a doubt and it interesting to wonder WHY.

Obviously you really don't want to know why those who question his birth do so.

FlyersFan the reason the PEOPLE of the movement question his birth is OBVIOUS. It is also obvious that they continue to do so is based on the fires being fed by the media gate keepers and politicians. I really care less about the people of the movement, in fact all i feel in regards to them is PITY.

You don't want to hear the answer. If you really did want an answer you wouldn't have started out the thread with this statement that rejects the real reason people question his credentials -

No I dont you are 100% correct. What I did want to discuss was laid out in the OP. It has to do with the motivation of those in power for this type of defamation.

Originally posted by Animal

You just want a 'bash the questioners' eco-chamber thread.

Whatever. Bask together.
Enjoy those who make FALSE racist accusations.

Why is it so hard to play along? Is it really that scary to depart from your assumption that Obama is in fact illegitimate and question why on earth anyone would go to such lengths to make it seem otherwise? Is it that scary for you to question the scruples of the republican party and the right-wing fringe of the USA?

That is what this is about. It is an investigation into a fringe movement that is seeking to do damage to the USA by attempting to diminish the legitimacy and power of the POTUS.



[edit on 23-7-2009 by Animal]

Originally posted by Animal
it is sad that on a conspiracy site such as ats we can not move beyond simple bickering over a topic and discuss it from a different perspective.

You asked for us to discuss the motive behind the 'birther' movement. There are only a couple motives I can see...

1) People like myself (I don't consider myself a quote - birther - unquote) who have heard enough stories to legitimately question Obama's birthplace and would like him to produce his long-form certificate... that's it, simple.

2) People who don't like him and want him out. They are hitch a ride on anything negative. I would guess these people really don't care about his birthplace, they just want him out. They may not like that he's black, or that he's a democrat, or the way he's running our country, or that he can't throw a damn baseball 90ft. Who knows?!?

But as far as true 'birthers' go, I think the motivation is simply to get to the bottom of this, get the truth, and get on with it. If he's legit... fine. But it seems as though its the 'reverse racism' thing going. Where you can't question a minority - even though there a legitimate questions that need answers - without be labled a racist yourself. Like many have pointed out already, it's the 'anti-birthers' who are racist in my opinion.

reply to post by Witness2008

Nobody is asking for any more than a look at the vault copy. Why would you or anyone attempt to stop that ?

Scroll down and get a look at a full Hawaiian Certificate - complete with signatures at this LINK

At the bottom there is also a video interview with enough reasons to question the short form as a legitamate document.

For between $10 and $25 barry could put the whole thing to rest. You most certainly would ask the same if it was McCain - - - oh wait, you did, and there was even a congressional hearing on the matter.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to see a simple piece of paper - no reason to fight it unless there is something there that needs to be hidden.

Oh, btw, you did again try to play the race card - you should not project your tendencies onto unknown others. Poor form.

reply to post by mecheng


One would think that a birth certificate, newspaper announcements of such, the fact his parents were citizens along with the vetting of a political run should answer this burning question of yours.

Just what will it take for you to admit his legitimacy?

Originally posted by mecheng

Originally posted by Animal
...It is a discussion that supposes Obama is legitimate...

Since there are numerous reports that he was in fact born in Kenya and has yet to provide the long form... You're making a big assumption.

You seem to want a very one-sided 'discussion'.. but I'll play along.

The 'birther' movement's motive is simple... we want, and BY LAW deserve, the TRUTH!

Plan and simply, this poster says it very clear! For me it's about TRUTH...
It's not about right-left, black-white racist concerns, it's is about the long form that his being held from the public at huge cost and yet we are expect to play along by providing so much from us to get something as simple as a DL in my State and for so many other things that as a true U.S. citizen I shouldn't have to do.

Originally posted by mecheng

Originally posted by Animal
it is sad that on a conspiracy site such as ats we can not move beyond simple bickering over a topic and discuss it from a different perspective.

You asked for us to discuss the motive behind the 'birther' movement. There are only a couple motives I can see...

I agree with the two reasons you posted, they are obviously very legitimate.

However, I feel that there is another tier to the birther movement that does not get any light shined on it.

There are many in both the media and in the political sphere who are participating in this and I seriously question their motives for doing so.

For example in the birther bill the 10 congressmen in support are all republicans, not 1 democrat. you would think that if there were serious and credible reasons to question obama's citizenship there would be at least one democrat to sign up, right?

what about hillary clinton's run for POTUS? wouldn't she have wanted to have obama removed from running if there was any legitimate reason to do so?

so there is, what seems obvious to me, a high level conspiracy to weaken the president and the democratic party perpetuated by the republicans.

an act i personally i would say is close to treason. weakening the country in the name of their own party's power.

reply to post by JustTheFacts


Did you at anytime question the fact that the political pundits, media hacks and politicians only intimate Obama is not a citizen. Birthers are thrown the red meat they need to make this an issue. It's ugly and I feel ashamed for most.

Birthers are being yanked by both sides...the right wing uses you as does the left. Democrats are counting on birthers to make total fools of the other side. It has gotten so out of hand that the thinking right dare not say they believe Obama to be legitimate for fear of losing votes.

Rush and the rest of those overpaid hate mongers use birthers to amp their following. At least there is no money involved with the dems. they are just taking political advantage of a public that can be so easily led.

Where do you think this so called conspiracy will land?

reply to post by Witness2008


I (and the so-called birthers) have already answered that... the original long-form birth certificate.

reply to post by mecheng


And if your demands are not met what happens then? I'll tell you what will happen...birthers will continue to entertain fellow Americans along with the rest of the world...snickering and laughing and all the while Dobbs, Rush and the like will develop a rabid following that advertisers then can also target.

Why in the world would Obama at this point do what you or anyone else demands. He has you just where he needs you.

What I find amazing is that just who would have or could have had the resources to fake these documents...certificate or newspaper notice in 1961 and why?

You have absolutely no serious answers.

I mean really...when the documents are certified by their sources...all you blithers can do is say that they are fakes.

Faked by who? And when? 1961?

Again you have no answers...not even passably credible suggestions.

Your sources are pathetically weak and more questionable than the hypothesis itself.

I mean what a waste of time...or are you blithers that gullible?


SHEET...at least bush minor and cheney the dick were plotting things like
wars...
torture...
spying on citizens...

and minor things like that.

reply to post by grover


You miss the point of birthers...

Obama is selling out the country... This is NOT the change that anyone bargained for... All O has been doing since he took office is continuing most of the Bush policies; But wait There's More!!

He doesn't want to take over some big businesses but he takes them over anyways... in the form of buying them up and putting his own people in charge.

That's selling America as we knew it down the river. Bush would NEVER have been able to get away with that... Yet, there sits O not wanting to do any of this. His hands are tied; Can we say he sold out the democrats too?

He's a puppet of the same master that Bush danced along with...

The Birth Certificate issue; even if and when he pulls a genuine copy out of his butt (that will amaze his followers too, I'm sure) showing he was born on Oahu in Honolulu at a hospital with doctors signatures... It won't matter.

Birthers will find another way to compromise his character and background.

This is all to get the monster out of the White House; Mr. Obama has to go too.

So, now that the Birthers (I'm honored to be one too) have some legitimate arguments (at least casting reasonable doubt, including statements from Kenyan's) that the O is a Usurper and likely guilty of Treason... We are going to run with it until this horse is beaten into dust.

He should have been vetted just like any and EVERY other candidate; then we could have still chosen to look the other way and vote (unlikely and they knew it.)

So, it really has nothing to do with his BC except that's all that we can 'get' him on right now.

People that understand and revere the Constitution are alarmed at how far from our founding ideals we've gone.

The BC issue is the best way to turn up the heat; even if you don't think it is... consider the threads created, the scathing replies and heated debate.


[edit on 7·23·09 by DrMattMaddix]

reply to post by DrMattMaddix


Finally some honesty.

Did you demand to see a copy of Bush's birth certificate? If not why not?

How is it you could not believe an Americans defense of Obama but would believe a Kenyan accusing Obama of being a usurper?

Originally posted by DrMattMaddix
Obama is selling out the country

Yes. Thats a "shocking revelation" coming from you fellas.

This is NOT the change that anyone bargained for

Let me tell you why, because you didnt want this man to become president in the first place.

reply to post by Animal


Well done animal.

Personally I will take the birthers seriously the minute they come up with the evidence to prove the man was born off soil. Right now they are riding over the speculation that Ms Dunham somehow managed to afford a plane ticket to Kenya in the 1960s, while 8 months pregnant, to then have Obama there then return back, with no flight records. Its also a matter of "meeting their demands" and Im sorry, they dont have the standing neither do they have the credibility to make any demands.

Screaming and whining in public areas about the fact "his not showing you his documents" will not get you that long form birth certificate. Evidence that he was born off US soil may very well do so.

There is a birther campaign going on Animal. They have been reviving it time and time again following the elections. They tried to bring it back in december, they try to make something out of it back in April and this month they tried again. The make coordinated attacks with media outlets online and so forth to push their smear agenda. Every time they do so it falls flat... why? because at the end of the day they are just a bunch of loons complaining because Obama "didnt show them a document", nothing else.

I tell ya, evidence would certainly get them that long form.

SG

Originally posted by DrMattMaddix
You miss the point of birthers...
...Birthers will find another way to compromise his character and background.
[edit on 7·23·09 by DrMattMaddix]

EXACTLY...That is why the whole blithers "movement" is a crock.

You are not upset over any real issue...because there is none....

You are out to trash Obama regardless.

Its funny how some who believe the NWO is behind all major world governments and events (yes, even the election of our first black president) actually think that this couldn't be just another distraction to keep our minds away from the people who are really running the show and what they are doing.
It doesn't matter who is in office, or if he was born here or not. He is a talking head. He may not even know what is actually going on behind the scenes. They want us to be at each others throats instead of at the steps of the white house.
So lets all just sit at our computers and argue over things none of us can prove while the real people in power take everything from us. Including, apparantly, our sanity.

Originally posted by Animal
So these claims against Obama begin and he does what no president I can name has done, he posts his birth certificate online for all to see.

Stopped reading here, since you have a very poor understanding of the facts.

He did not post his birth certificate online, and the circumstances surrounding that event are so laughably inadequate as proof of his legitimacy that you should be ashamed for thinking that that in any way settles the matter.

reply to post by Riposte


His birth certificate is posted all over the internet kingdom. I shall leave you with a favorite quote of mine:

"A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblins of Little Minds"
Emerson

[edit on 23-7-2009 by Witness2008]

reply to post by Witness2008

I did not play the race card. There are racist in this country and I see them everywhere. My personal observations added with honesty brought me to the conclusion that birthers are racist.

That quote of yours says a great deal about your view of people. You see racists EVERYWHERE. That sounds quite paranoid to me. If someone doesn't agree with you, they are racists. You last sentence indicates a rigidity of thought that there can only be one reason that people are concerned about the legitimacy of Obama's claim. You cannot realize that people may have reasons far removed from race for being concerned, such as legal and constitutional reasons to be concerned. No, in your mind, anyone that does not agree with you is a racist.
Yes, not only do you play the race card. In fact, it seems to be the ONLY card in your deck.

Originally posted by Rams59lb
Plan and simply, this poster says it very clear! For me it's about TRUTH...
It's not about right-left, black-white racist concerns, it's is about the long form that his being held from the public at huge cost and yet we are expect to play along by providing so much from us to get something as simple as a DL in my State and for so many other things that as a true U.S. citizen I shouldn't have to do.

Well if you're focused on TRUTH and your Location info is correct, you are EXAGGERATING about the requirements in your state. A BC is but one of MANY ID's accepted. (Funny, THEY DON'T accept hospital copies. Just sayin'. )

www.dmvnv.com...

Certified U.S. Issued Birth Certificate
or Certified Abstract (hospital copies are not accepted)
U.S. Passport (current or expired less than one year)
U.S. Military Identification or Military Report of Separation
Certificate of Citizenship or Naturalization
Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood
Consular Report of Birth Abroad
Permanent or Temporary Resident Card
Resident Alien Card or I-551 Receipt
Valid Foreign Passport stamped “Processed for I-551”
Arrival-Departure Record (I-94) with Visa or Passport
Permit to Reenter the U.S.
Refugee Travel Documents

State License or ID with number listed
Social Security Card
U.S. Military Identification
Original DD-214 Military Separation Form
Social Security Benefits Documentation


[edit on 23-7-2009 by kinda kurious]