Christianity is finished in the UK "Well thank god for that!"

reply to post by spellbound

I presume you are being sarcastic when you say "Thank God for that"? Otherwise I have to ask which god you are thanking - certainly not the Christian God, so maybe an Egyptian

What like the semi christian god Amen ?

Originally posted by KarlG

Quick question: how did this post about religious education being originally compulsory in UK schools, and its soon-to-be-abolishment progress into a discussion about wild sex and condoms?!?!?

I suggested that christians ought to try some wild sex since its a lot more fun than worrying about being judged in any afterlife & Watcher suggested this might well cause death by AIDS.
Which I find a very sad comment on the way that christian 'morals' have polluted our society.

reply to post by Bunken Drum


*sighs* Yet I mention nothing about Christianity or even morality in my response. I assure you sir, I am no Christian.

reply to post by spellbound

I have never pushed Jesus on people.

I don't recall claiming you had

You have missed my point entirely.

I may well have

We speak different languages

.

Sometimes it's difficult on here to guess how others speak, I often get it wrong but no harm is intended.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by Bunken Drum

 

*sighs* Yet I mention nothing about Christianity or even morality in my response. I assure you sir, I am no Christian.

Out of curiosity, would the demise of the christian church benefit us in your opinion ?

All this shows to me is not a decline in Christianity (as backed up by the Census figures) but a decline in PRACTICING Christians.

An alternate example would be just because a Muslim doesn't go to the Mosque, doesn't make them no longer Muslim.

Sounds like a propoganda piece to me.

reply to post by moocowman


You told me to stop doing that Jesus thing to frighten or convert people and I promised myself never to reply to you again. And I was not doing a frightening or threatening thing about Jesus.

You know what? Why should I care who believes in Jesus? Why should I care about anyone else? I have to, because Jesus tells me to.

So at least a lot of people will read this.

Originally posted by spellbound reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage

Also, under Islam everything is compulsory. If people would like to see the Islamic religion take over Britain in place of the Christian religion good luck to them, and Jesus help the world. Given the number of mosques and associated beliefs in Britain today, I would say this is likely. This how the enemy infiltrates if they have not won the obvious war.

• It does not follow that if a person gives up christianity they are susceptible to becoming a muslim.
  
• Actually, if a person has disavowed one stupid lifestyle, they are as likely to reject another.
  
• If you read the thread on shari'ah courts in the UK, you'll find that the Daily Mulch article in the OP & another Times article further in were both debunked as skewed scaremongering twaddle.
  
• War? You need to get a grip mate.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows reply to post by Bunken Drum

*sighs* Yet I mention nothing about Christianity or even morality in my response. I assure you sir, I am no Christian.

I never said you are christian, merely that the automatic response that there will be negative consequences from "wild sex" is a conditioning that stems from judeo-christian morals. Since our western society is based on these, it takes a conscious effort to overcome them & see the modern world.
I find myself riddled with all kinds of pointless, stultifying, lazy or just plain stupid ways of thinking: it really f**ks me off sometimes & I'm a person that has put considerable effort into sin, so you'd think I'd have broken the habits of christian thinking, eh?
Its insidious!
Are you claiming to have got away without any brainwashing/socialisation?
*sigh indeed*

reply to post by spellbound

Why should I care about anyone else? I have to, because Jesus tells me to.

Are you implying that if jesus didn't tell you to care about others you wold not do so. Must be hard carrying someone else s compassion.

Do you not find it strange that many people care for others without being told to do so, IE they are compassionate despite christianity ?

What in your opinion is the source of the morals and compassion displayed by the atheist that yahweh jesus would have be killed ?

Considering that the Yahweh jesus god is amply described as a killer of children, do you not find it strange that an atheist would find this repugnant behavior ?

Why is it do you think, that an atheist can have moral values far greater than the Yahwehjesus god ?

reply to post by Flighty

All this shows to me is not a decline in Christianity (as backed up by the Census figures) but a decline in PRACTICING Christians.

Christianity is not expanding (I'm sure the churches would be the first to blow that trumpet) IE no new bums on seats.

If there are no significant increase in the numbers of converts to christianity yet practicing xtians are declining, then by definition christianity is on the decline or is declining.

reply to post by WhatTheory

I guess you will hate Muslims next since they seem to be on the rise there and soon you will have to abide by sharia law. You will be begging God for Christians once the Muslim extremists take over.

Why would I beg to yawhehjesus if allah is the new sheriff in town ? If yahweh jesus didn't want Allah in, then Allah wouldn't get in.

Clearly (from your hypothesis) Allah would be the god with the biggest penis, hey why pray to losers , shouldn't people pray to winners ?

reply to post by amazed

Are you aware that when people hear voices, they are usually given medicines for a psychotic episode? If the medicines do not work they are put in a mental hospital.

Problem is, Paul's companions saw something, they didn't just hear a voice.

Acts 22.9:

Now those who were with me saw the light but did not understand the voice of the one who was speaking to me.

Paul also saw something, that's obvious from reading the accounts.

But when someone hears "the voice of god", then oh thats all right then.

I don't know what world you live in, but, in today's world, if I were to go to someone and say, "God was talking to me!", people are going to take it with a grain of salt. Yes, in biblical times, people said that they heard God. But, those that really did hear God had accompanying signs/fulfilled prophecy which people don't have today.

But to please stop pushing those beliefs onto others.

By sharing my faith, and giving and apology for what I believe, I'm not forcing it onto you. You're not forced to accept it. I'm telling you what I believe in why. People that think Christians are forcing their beliefs onto people need to wake up and realize that we're not kidnapping people and forcing them to go to church, get baptized, etc. In fact, by listening to what a Christian says about their faith, it could do the world well because there are many half-truths, and misconceptions that people believe about us.

Stop telling me that I am going to hell if I do not believe just like you do. Stop coming by my house and leaving me pamphlets, stop trying to convert me, stop judging me. Follow your Christian beliefs which says something along the lines of "judge not least you be judged". Truth is? I live far more by the Christian ideology by the way I treat others and live my life than MOST Christians I have ever known.

I applaud you for living better than most "Christians". Sad thing is, our human righteousness is but a filthy menstrual rag to God. One doesn't have to believe everything the same what that I believe it to go to heaven. Who knows--my theological positions could be wrong about many things. What one needs is Jesus' righteousness imputed to them.

It really seems though that you don't understand why Christians evangelize and tell people that they're going to hell unless they believe in Jesus. It's not because we're "judging" you or anything like that. Christians evangelize because Christ told us to. Christians are to go into all the nations and preach the gospel of Jesus Christ. Christians are trying to get the Word out. That is why we leave pamphlets and talk to people. Christ also said that if someone doesn't believe in him, they're going to go to hell. We didn't make that up. Humanly speaking, I would love for God to just let everyone into heaven, but, as revealed in the Bible, that's not going to happen--God doesn't allow it. But, anyway, when a Christian goes out of his way to tell you the Gospel, we do it because we care about your eternal life.

Strangely enough, I've always had the feeling that if Christians didn't evangelize like we're commanded to, the world would jump down our throats for not obeying our faith. We can't win for losing.

My wish if that you, and all, would accept Christ as savior. I don't think that I'm any better than you because I'm a Christian. I am simply a sinner saved by God's grace. Lord knows that I sin a lot. I'm not perfect, far from it. Understand that not all Christians have a "holier-than-thou" attitude which you seem to have encountered.

reply to post by octotom

I applaud you for living better than most "Christians". Sad thing is, our human righteousness is but a filthy menstrual rag to God

Wow! Equating menstruation with filth is but yet more evidence of the inherent misogyny,of the yahwhe jesus cult.

To be honest dude, although I find that attitude pretty much par for the course of Abraham cults I'm quite taken back by your employment of it.

How any woman chooses to become or remain a christian is completely beyond me, I can only assume that they don't read bibles or choose out of fear to ignore the blatant degradation of the female.

Interestingly enough this situation seems to be somewhat reversed in the likes of the gospels that, were rejected by early Catholicism and omitted from the canon.

One can only conclude that the early church fathers desperately feared women, and were as equally as contemptuous of them as the yahwhe jesus god.

Haven't avoided your other post by the way, time and distraction drags me hither an thither.

reply to post by moocowman

Wow! Equating menstruation with filth is but yet more evidence of the inherent misogyny,of the yahwhe jesus cult.

No, I didn't say menstruation was filth. Stop twisting my words. Twisting someone's words makes you look ignorant.

I said that our human righteousness is but filthy menstrual rags to God. Have you ever looked at a used period pad or tampon? Not exactly good for anything after it's been used. They're quite filthy as well. When God looks at the good things that we do, that's what he sees.

Isaiah 64.6:

We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

The phrase in Hebrew for "polluted garment" is used for a woman's menstrual rag.

To be honest dude, although I find that attitude pretty much par for the course of Abraham cults I'm quite taken back by your employment of it.

See, this shows your ignorance of Judeo-Christian things. Christians don't distain women. Nor do Jews. We value women greatly. Ever read the 31st Proverb? Ever read Ruth or Esther? The Jews celebrate them to this day. Christianity, wherever it has spread to, has given women freedom and rights that they hadn't had before. Just because there are some groups of Christians that believe that women aren't to have certain roles in the church, doesn't mean that we're sexist or anti-woman. Don't even think about bringing up the whole "submission" thing because when people like you bring that up, you leave out the subsequent parts about how a husband is to submit to his wife. This is because they're one flesh. And, as Paul put it, no man hurts his flesh. Therefore, treating women badly is wrong.

How any woman chooses to become or remain a christian is completely beyond me, I can only assume that they don't read bibles or choose out of fear to ignore the blatant degradation of the female.

Women read their Bibles. My wife does every day. Women choose to become, and stay, Christian because of the freedom found in Christ. Not to mention the salvation found in him. You're ignorant to say that the Bible contains "blatant degradation of the female". It's almost like you've never read the Bible, or, when you have read it, you read into it what isn't there. Women aren't the slaves of men. Go brush up on Ephesians. You'd learn a lot.

Interestingly enough this situation seems to be somewhat reversed in the likes of the gospels that, were rejected by early Catholicism and omitted from the canon.

No, the Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, were never rejected by any group in the early church. In fact, they were the only ones that were accepted by the early church. The other "gospels" which aren't in the canon, were never accepted by the early church because they were written outside the times of the Apostles. So, they were written in the names of the Apostles, which the early church frowned upon.

It's interesting to me that the four gospels that Christians recognize as valid are the ones constantly attacked. While, the "Gnostic Gospels" which were written well after the canonical Gospels are said to be the real deal. One of these gospels, Thomas, quotes Jesus as saying that for a woman to be saved, she must become a man. Now, if the early church was anti-woman, they could've easily accepted that gospel as valid.

reply to post by octotom

Christians don't distain women. Nor do Jew

Not according to your jesus yahweh gods' people price list, women were well on the bottom of the respect ladder.

Leviticus 27:3-7
Male, 60+ years: 15 shekels
Female, 60+ years: 10 shekels
Male, 20-60 years: 50 shekels
Female, 20-60 years: 30 shekels
Male, 5-20 years: 20 shekels
Female, 5-20 years: 10 shekels
Male, 1 month-5 years: 5 shekels
Female, 1 month-5 years: 3 shekels

reply to post by octotom

No, I didn't say menstruation was filth. Stop twisting my words. Twisting someone's words makes you look ignorant.

No deliberate intention to twist your words, it's kind of difficult to imagine that which is (alleged to be) perfect love, creating something it considers filthy.

Seems like Yawhe jesus god has a habit of hating the things it created, that is one dumbassed schizophrenic god you got there.

reply to post by octotom


Oh yes jesus yahweh really loves women --

1 Corinthians 14:34:
Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in
submission, as the Law says.



Deuteronomy 22:20-21:
If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you.

reply to post by octotom

Genesis 3:16:
To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give
birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."
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1 Timothy 2:11:
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 Timothy 2:9 :
I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or
pearls or expensive clothes.

reply to post by moocowman

Not according to your jesus yahweh gods' people price list, women were well on the bottom of the respect ladder.

This is a joke, right? Leviticus has nothing to do with the worth of persons. It has to do with vows, which are voluntary. When God gave these "prices" he wasn't saying, 'this is how much a woman who is 60+ years old is worth". God was just saying what was required to redeem the person from their vow. Remember that Israel was an agricultural society, so, these prices probably reflected how Israel viewed the "usefulness" of an age group in the way that they lived. How they would be viewed in "the marketplace" is they were to be sold there. In an agricultural society, a man is definitely worth more than a woman. We practice the same thing in our world today. There are some professions that make more because they're more valuable to us. But we wouldn't say that a person who does a job that is "not as important" and doesn't make as much because of that is being shown disdain by the rest of society, would we?

Also, beyond the surface, these prices show that when you're going to make a vow for God, it's not some flippant thing that you do. It's an important thing and you shouldn't make a vow to God unless you're serious.

When the people of Israel made a vow, they would give something up to God. In some cases, you could vow yourself to the Lord. An example of this is a Nazarite vow. When the period of the vow was over, you could buy back what you'd vowed. To do this, you had to give some money to the sanctuary. Naturally, you're going to redeem yourself when your vow was over.

If we're going to say that God has disdain for women because of this, we might as well say that he hates infant boys as well because, they're not much higher up the ladder than an infant girl. And God hates old people because their "worth" starts to tank once they turn 60.