The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S.

I took Tae Kwon Do also. I also own guns. I'll trust my life to the guns, but that's my own decision.

All this arguing can be very easily resolved.

Just pay a visit to any British town center on a Friday or Saturday night, and you'll be treated to a display of violent drunkeness that would make a Russian proud.

Lazy, violent, and frequently drunk is the impression I am left with after every business trip to the UK, that and the litter, it's everywhere.

It never ceases to amaze me when my British counterparts openly quaff pints of beer during workday lunches, only to slur and belch their way through the rest of the day, what's even more amazing is that this behavior is tolerated by management. Over here you would be out of work - permanently.

While London can be fun, the rest of the UK is a dark and dismal place, and the only european country I visit where I am relieved to board the plane home. Cynicism is a national sport, and for some reason everything is some huge joke, destined to be mocked and derided at every opportunity. Insecurity and immaturity is rampant.

Now Sweden on the other hand, I would move there in a heartbeat.

The problems stem from the culture wars of the 1960s and the liberal/left finally infiltrating every aspect of the establishment- hence we have precious little "justice",we have a culture of sink estates with no stable family life and welfare dependence

reply to post by Retseh


It seems to me that you've had some bad experiences here in the UK. I holiday in New York and Vegas quite a lot and I see Americans enjoying pints and alcohol just like we do over here in Blighty. What I don't see over here, but I do in America, is yanks fighting to scoff down bin lid sized plates of chips and burgers the size of an average cows backside. Maybe if those Americans who cant pass a rotisserie chicken without eating it took up Sumo wrestling then Americans would stop shooting each other and start fighting each other instead.Its very easy to point the finger at the negatives in a foreign country Isn't it?
And just in case some get the wrong end of the stick, I love America and it's people.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


You know, I'm not sure he has ever been here. There is something a bit 'Walter Mitty' about poor old Retsehs rants. We can only speculate as to why he has such a hang up about this sceptred isle. Perhaps his girl friend/boyfriend dumped him an ran off with a Brit. He is a very, very angry little chap.

From what I've gathered in this thread (and it HAS been an education! ), You folks have a fair proportion of "brawlers" over there, but not a lot of folks that fight for keeps. It sounds like the number of folks that DO fight for keeps, and violently so, is increasing, but perhaps not (yet) to a nationwide level.

Is that a fair assessment?

Now, under normal circumstances (i.e. against drunken brawlers) TKD and the like do fairly well. That would be all you NEED under such circumstances. I can see an aversion to firearms in that state. I might not COMPLETELY understand it, because firearms also have a sporting aspect (think contest of skills at hitting tiny targets far off), that I personally enjoy, but not all would. So I can understand to a degree.

Here, we have a few drunken brawlers, who are pretty easily wrapped up. We also have, in larger and growing numbers, a "gangsta" culture. These kids will kill over a pair of sneakers or a sideways glance. They have no morals, feel no remorse, and have a thoroughly "twisted" sense of honor, loyalty to none but their own group. They're dangerous, but only in a gutter-snipe, sneaky kind of way. They generally avoid points of actual "strength", since they are predatory in nature. Personally, I think it's kind of cute, the way they TRY to give one a "hard-eyed stare" to show you who's the boss, and fail miserably when against someone who's confident.

But then I'm a bit twisted myself. You may have gathered that.

Against such opponents, TKD and the like are of little use here. They'll just stand off in the shadows, and pick you off without actually taking a chance on getting their hair mussed. That's why firearms are a good Idea here. Payment in kind, just as fisticuffs are payment in kind to the odd brawler there.

Thank God that here, that sort of activity is mostly confined to the urban areas. But if it's growing there, you probably need to get a handle on it before it gets out of control. If that's still possible and it hasn't already.

To make a long story short, I believe what we have here is, more than a clash of values, a failure to comprehend cultural differences which we assume to be close, because of a common language. Were you Brits to have been raised in this culture, you might see things differently. Likewise with us and your culture. I think it's more a matter of what we're up against than it is a matter of who's "right" or "wrong". We each deal with our own problems the best we can.

The problems of violence are real, and not a matter for thrashing and bashing. They're a matter for debate and solution.

Fair enough?

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


Ahh, the old "Americans are all fat" mantra gets trotted out like some tired old record.

Is that the best you've got?

Wild guess here - your closet is filled with Liverpool away strips from the last 10 years, a burberry ballcap, and one pair of white socks. Your best friend is called "Chozza" and you really hate "the Arsenal". I'm willing to guess that your Vegas trip suitcase was filled with soccer strips as well, just a wild guess.

You know we sent 2 of our young female associates to work in the UK for a few weeks on assignment. They are pretty, blonde, and college educated - the British women they had to work with hated them and were openly offensive, calling them "Barbies". These aren't 2 loud obnoxious americans, they are 2 of the cutest, quietest and most professional young women you could wish to meet. You could say they were representative of our nation, just as the British women they met were representative of yours - petty minded, jealous, cynical, and downright nasty, especially after a couple of drinks when the venom really began to flow.

Both have asked never to be assigned to the UK again.

Then I had to do some work in Prague, a taxi driver there told me that the Czechs regard the British as the worst behaved Europeans, and that he refused to take young british guys in his taxi. I personally witnessed several British twenty somethings yelling the vilest obscenities at some passing Czech girls.

But hey, we like pizza, and that's much worse isn't it.

You must be so proud.

[edit on 6-7-2009 by Retseh]

Originally posted by nenothtu
From what I've gathered in this thread (and it HAS been an education!

), You folks have a fair proportion of "brawlers" over there, but not a lot of folks that fight for keeps. It sounds like the number of folks that DO fight for keeps, and violently so, is increasing, but perhaps not (yet) to a nationwide level.

Is that a fair assessment?

Not really neno. In fact people used to fight for keeps a lot. Still do. Warring nation, always has been.

Originally posted by Retseh
reply to post by Mintwithahole.

 

Ahh, the old "Americans are all fat" mantra gets trotted out like some tired old record.

Yes, but it certainly seems to rattle you. It's the second time you have complained about it. Touched a raw nerve?

Originally posted by Fang
Yes, but it certainly seems to rattle you. It's the second time you have complained about it. Touched a raw nerve?

I'd characterize it more as frustration with stupidity.

The opposing American stereotype of the British is that you all have bad teeth. That's equally moronic, and does nothing to expose what's really wrong with your diseased society.

[edit on 6-7-2009 by Retseh]

Originally posted by Fang
reply to post by Mintwithahole.

 

You know, I'm not sure he has ever been here. There is something a bit 'Walter Mitty' about poor old Retsehs rants.

Haha! Yes the internet is a breeding ground for WaltsWalts

However, although I do not agree entirely with Retseh, it's easy to get that impression as a visitor to the 'U'K.

I'm coming back to Blighty in a few weeks, for a cup of tea with me mam.

I shall no doubt quaff a few beers and drink in more of the Lake District.

Retseh, my dear fellow. I traveled through the USA in a camper van, from Jasper CAN, to Vegas many years ago. I saw many of the same problems there as I have done everywhere else I have ever been.

I choose, however, to remember the kindness and hospitality shown to me and my fellow companions by the American people EVERYWHERE we went.
A truly fantastic land, filled with beauty and wonder.

I can say the same things about every country I have been to. (Which encompasses 28% of the planet, according to some travel thing I filled in on the internet.)

You may not love the land of my birth, but a bloke born in that land loves you. And your land, it's ideals and spirit.

Dear Retseh, next time you are in England, check out Pendle Hill and its pubs. You'll have a fine old time.

And for my compatriots, do try to remember we have a lot more in common with our American friends, than we have differences. However much that may chaff.

Britain is in the same bloody pickle as everywhere else. As are we all.

BIG LOVE to the ATS Massive! Toodle Pip!

Back to my Cynical Quaffing! So sorry for the waffle. Sorry for saying sorry. Sorry.



Really!

reply to post by Sam Vimes


Yes, but which country do you choose to live in?

As for proving I have even set foot in the UK, that's essentially impossible, there's no verifiable piece of information that you couldn't get from the net.

But for fun I'll try.

First for the scouser.

If you have trouble parking at Albert Dock, try getting into the adjacent Queens Dock parking lot (big Customs & Excise building) - if you just wave at the security guard he lets you in - I did it by accident, honest.

Other than that, I tried to avoid Liverpool.

A random selection of places I visited.

Knutsford - loved the Wine Bar, especially sitting upstairs - but seriously, can't you people invest in some air conditioning.

Runcorn - unmentionable crap hole.

Northwich - saw lots of litter, violence, and small kids with ultimate foul language skills.

Warrington - visited the birth place of Lewis Carroll, Daresbury, some type of big lab there, 20 houses, one church, and a pub filled with illustrations from his books.

Llangollen - stayed in a hotel by the river, went on the canal boat ride, always seemed to rain.

Birmingham - makes me shudder just to think about it, nothing memorable.

Edinburgh - more drunkeness, more violence, strange food.

The M6 motorway - seemed to spend most of one visit sat in gridlock.

Other than that, I'm an expert on the inside of British office buildings, and British behavior of course, oh and everyone always seems so miserable.

Favorite topic of conversation - their next vacation (understandable).

reply to post by Retseh


I choose to live in the Netherlands, friend.

I do so because my wife is Sicilian, my son is Dutch and for the time being, I'm learning a new trade. Guitar building, for those interested.

My choices have led me here. I miss the land of my birth, my family and it's soil, make no mistake. One day, I would like to return there for good. In a cask, an urn or in the flesh. But who are we to make these decisions? We dance on the same ball. I digress.

The M6 is not Blighty. The M6 has taken me away from those I love, but, it has also taken me back. Albeit slowly on a Friday night.....

I have to say the places you have singled out have had me in stitches. Yes, Runcorn is...difficult to find a silver lining in, My old man was a copper there.

It does rain. The flowers grow.

Listen mate, I'm back in Blighty soon. U2U me if you are going to be there
in the next two weeks. Me and the family have a cottage in the lakes for a couple of days and your welcome. Although a certain amount of quaffing and (healthy) cynicism will be involved. Gen up.

It may also entail a trip up the M6, but while your staring at the concrete wall
that you just can't quite see over as you are stuck in Brum, think how happy
ATS will be, as we take our friendly discussion to the top of a fell and with us, our pointless babble.

I say!

reply to post by Retseh

I’m sorry but I’m calling fraud. There is something odd about your anecdotes, as though they have been hastily concocted, simply to reinforce an earlier post.

The first post of yours which caught my eye was the one in which you claimed to have first hand experience of British Muslims, gained after 11 years of working in the “Dirty Smelly” heart of Manchester, which turned out to be Deansgate.
It struck me as odd at the time, as Manchester, unlike Bradford, Burnley or some other towns in the Northwest, does not have a particularly large or high profile Pakistani community. Also, bearing in mind your views on the British and Muslims, I couldn’t begin to imagine how you tolerated living with us for 11 years. It must have been sheer hell. Deansgate isn’t exactly the East Beirut either. It’s a district known for its Bars, restaurants, hotels and its proximity to Manchester’s Gay quarter. All of which gives it a prominence in the tourist’s guides. In fact, most of what you post about the UK seems to be culled from right wing tabloids or out of date tourist guides.

Then there is the jet setting across Europe, the sipping of Margaritas by your pool, your constant and increasingly hysterical assertion that you live in paradise. It all sounds a bit contrived and insecure. Perhaps I’m wrong. Perhaps you are the thirteenth member of Oceans Eleven. Who knows, you might have been to the UK and unfortunately there is something about you that brings the worse out in us, causing us to offend your tender sensibilities by belching, farting and swearing around you.

I was glad to see that Sweden has now replaced the Netherlands (no problems there with beer drinkers and Muslims eh?) as your favourite Euro stopover. A wonderful example of what a Democratic Socialist society can achieve. Unheard of levels of health and social welfare provision. A tolerant, highly educated society. I think you might find the Income Tax a little worrying. Then there’s the suicide rate but what the hell, we might make a liberal out of you yet.

I’m glad your Boss is still letting you log on at work. ATS would be a less entertaining place without you.

reply to post by Retseh

Well you've got me pretty much pegged (not) except for the fact that I'm a Liverpool fan. But here's the good part, I now get to assess you!

I'll bet you're a typical big fat twenty stone plus yank who sits and sweats through his couch every night listening to the sound of gunshots echoing from outside your front door while watching Oprah on the box. On the table in front of you will be two half eaten pizza's and one mega burger. You'll be saving that for later when you're hungry again. You'll have a down stairs loo because you get out of breath when you take the stairs and in your front garden will be the good old stars and stripes flag. . .

And by the way, anyone can bring up a map, select a few places and then google each one to get a description of it so that you can pretend you've been there! I know you haven't visited Liverpool! "Why?" Because the town centre has a weight limit, especially around the Albert Dock. If you fell in the Mersey Formby and Crosby would be washed away!!!

reply to post by Fang


Dear Fang ( great name by the way. Monthster!), I enjoy your prose. You also raise valuable questions pertaining to the validity of Retsehs' ongoing Blighty visits to this FAIR isle. I think, however unfortunate that action is to those that know me, we should give our esteemed correspondent the benefit of doubt. Something about the M6 has me thinking our chap or gal, is conveying the truth. From his or her perspective of course..

Perhaps if all of us put away our teeth......we are after all, digital ambassadors.


Again, BIG LOVE to the ATS massive.

reply to post by Sam Vimes


Well I can't fault that response, I will note however that the best Brits do appear to be those who have left.

As for me, and contrary to stereotypical yank behavior, I would choose Sweden to live in given enough money, seriously.

Oops - forgot to thank you for the invite, I'm genuinely humbled (and somewhat silenced).

[edit on 6-7-2009 by Retseh]

reply to post by Fang


Sorry to disappoint you, but I am the boss, at least in this office, shades of David Brent perhaps.

I'm sorry if my anecdotes are random, I could have thrown in skiing trips in Switzerland, Austria, Italy and France, or weekend breaks along the Promenade des Anglais in Nice, or the same at the Balcon De Europa in Nerja, Spain, or pacific cruises, or the Bahamas, or the Greek islands, or Lanzarote, or working in Ludvika, Sweden or even watching practice week at the Isle of Man TT - but then someone would call me a big headed yank. What can I say, I like to travel, sometimes I have to.

As for Muslims in Deansgate, no there weren't that many, except further out down the curry mile in (suburb name?). What can I say, that was a long time ago - either take it or leave it.

For those who say dont trust the daily mail, i agree, but this story has been in several more reputable papers, so its true.

anyway, here is some links to crime from my local paper, i live at the very far north west of england, not far from the scottish border. Feel free to read them if you want, just thought it may give you more insight into crime in another part of the uk.

Teens crash stolen car

newsandstar.co.uk...


Man admits raping 7 year old girl

newsandstar.co.uk...


Knife yob jailed for four years

newsandstar.co.uk...


Man struck fiance and broke eye socket

newsandstar.co.uk...


police release cctv footage of carlisle tesco armed raid

newsandstar.co.uk...


Police hunting serial hairy flasher (lololol, this is for amusment)

newsandstar.co.uk...



and finaly, a ufo one with video from our paper, know its not the right thread, but im not starting a thread for what is more than likely a chinese lantern (dont comment on this one here, if someone wants to start a thread then by all means)

newsandstar.co.uk...



[edit on 6/7/09 by woogleuk]

[edit on 6/7/09 by woogleuk]

reply to post by Sam Vimes

Sam, maybe your right. Who knows? My beef with Retseh is that he is unsalvageably obnoxious, a bigot and misanthrope of the first order, both ill informed and delusional. He has had a go at the unemployed, immigrants, pregnant teenagers and religious minorities. If he ever has visited the UK, he was clearly subject to an experience, which has further heightened his incipient feelings of insecurity and inferiority. Hence the invective he spouts on threads such as these. I too visit the States regularly and have close friends there, so I know what an aberration this ranting moon-bat is