UCLA Prohibits Student from Saying 'Jesus' in Graduation Speech

So you have freedom of speech except at government functions....hmmmm freedom of speech as long as you don't offend anyone and everyone agrees about what is said.

It was my understanding that a business has "The right to refuse service to anyone." A College is a business, and therefore would have that right, would it not?

Now, "The right to refuse service to ANYONE" could include 'Anyone who adds a religious staple to their graduation speech'

This is not about freedom of speech, the college is a business and says "If you want to partake in this business you can not say that."

Also, take notice how many other religions are crying foul? It only seems like Christians are persecuted, because they throw every argument into the media like little children. "Teeeecher!! That person was mean to me!"

If the school says "You can't say that." then you can not say that. Well you could say it, but you would not graduate.

Originally posted by WisdomInChains
So you have freedom of speech except at government functions....hmmmm freedom of speech as long as you don't offend anyone and everyone agrees about what is said.

I did not say that. You are interpreting with your own spin.

You can't yell FIRE in a crowded theater - - freedom of speech is subjective.

Anything government falls under separation of church and state (even though many try to deny it).

reply to post by Annee

Invoking your personal God in a government program - - is subjective.

Who is invoking their personal God, she is invoking no one, she is thanking someone, big difference.

Invoke

-To petition for help or support
-To call forth by incantation
-To make an earnest request for
-To put into effect or operation
-Bring about, cause

Thank

-To express gratitude to; give thanks to
-To hold responsible; credit

What business is it of anyone's whom she chooses to thank ? How does who she thanks personally offend anyone ?

What government program are you referring to ? A college graduation is not a govermnent program. it's a simple ceremony.

Can you please explain to me what a general god is ?

Again , the topic of this thread is not the seperation of church & state. So can you please discard your strawman agruements and debate the thread topic.

Edit; to fix my bolding

[edit on 6/7/2009 by chise61]

reply to post by WhatTheory


Yes, because signing up and viewing a website are the same thing.As for the rest of your post,well yeah...good luck with that nonsense you just wrote.I'd have more luck making a rock bleed than getting anything remotely coherent out of you.

Originally posted by chise61

Who is invoking their personal God, she is invoking no one, she is thanking someone, big difference.

Invoke [/b
-To petition for help or support
-To call forth by incantation
-To make an earnest request for
-To put into effect or operation
-Bring about, cause

Yeah - - I liked the sound of the word - - was gonna look it up - - but figured someone would make a point of it.

Originally posted by chise61


Again , the topic of this thread is not the seperation of church & state. So can you please discard your strawman agruements and debate the thread topic.

Well NO - actually.

You and a couple others have deemed it a Free Speech issue.

I'm not sure that's the issue at all.

Courts have held that separation of church and state means that a public school cannot advocate a religious belief, this does not mean that individual students at a public school cannot express personal religious sentiments - that would be ridiculous.

Hopefully she sues them and wins big.

UCLA is overstepping the line legally, they haven't got a leg to stand on.

Originally posted by xmotex
Courts have held that separation of church and state means that a public school cannot advocate a religious belief, this does not mean that individual students at a public school cannot express personal religious sentiments - that would be ridiculous.

Hopefully she sues them and wins big.

UCLA is overstepping the line legally, they haven't got a leg to stand on.

Isn't that up to the school to determine?

Yes - would be interesting what a court decides.

reply to post by Annee

A professor at the government-funded University of California at Los Angeles (UCLA) has prohibited a graduating student from saying "I want to thank my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ," in her own graduation speech.

www.earnedmedia.org...


We have not "deemed" it a free speech issue, it is very clearly a free speech issue. When a person is prohibited from saying something that is classified as a freedom of speech issue.

Yeah - - I liked the sound of the word - - was gonna look it up - - but figured someone would make a point of it.

So in the course of a debate, you used a word that you did not know the definition of because you figured someone else would do your work for you Way to deny ignorance

Originally posted by chise61

So in the course of a debate, you used a word that you did not know the definition of because you figured someone else would do your work for you

Way to deny ignorance

So what. I usually look up and verify words - spelling & meaning.

I just didn't.

. . . and you did it for me as I expected you would.

reply to post by Annee


I think "you" are missing the actual point of all of this and of course I'm also missing your point, but they are related! lol

If I stand on a public college campus or any public, state or federal building for any event or occasion or reason and I thank god for helping me, that in no way is related to separation of church and state. It's personal and is covered under freedom of speach. And let me just add that only a few people would actually be offended by it.

I may be mildly offended by such a statement such as when one of the players for the Orlando Magic thanked god for helping them make it to the finals (Implying that god didn't like the other teams?) I didn't like it...does that mean I found it mildly offensive? lol But I got over it in 3 seconds.

Anyone who would make a big deal out of a phrase such as "...and let me thank god." needs to get a life. It's NOT the same as putting the 10 commandments in a court of law etc.

I never say things like that in public but I think i'm going to start just to see how many people I can piss off.

reply to post by falcon


UCLA is going to allow her speech to be read as she originally wrote it. They changed their mind due to public support of Christina Popa

The University of California in Los Angeles has responded to media pressure and agreed to allow a graduating student to thank Jesus in her personal statement.

Popa launched campaign on Facebook that received the support of 1,500 people in a matter of days.

Gordon Klingenschmitt, the former Navy chaplain who was fired over a dispute involving a public prayer he gave in Jesus' name, also rallied behind the UCLA student. He created an online petition asking UCLA officials to allow Popa to mention "Jesus" in her "Words of Wisdom" statement and issued a press release on the matter, which he then sent the university's chancellor and provost.

On Friday, a UCLA spokesperson sent Klingenschmitt a statement saying that the school had reviewed its procedures and would read the statements as originally submitted by the students.

"The department and the University support the First Amendment and in no way intended to impinge upon any students' rights," continued the statement.

"Thus, upon review, and recognizing that the intent of the ceremony is for all students to have a chance to say something at graduation, the department will continue to make clear to the audience that the statements are the personal statements of each student and will read statements as originally submitted by the students."

www.christianpost.com...

reply to post by Annee


I would attempt to explain it to you, unfortunately there is obviously not enough time for me to do that.

You have a good night.

Click here for more information.

Heads Up

Civility and Decorum are Required

It appears that a few of you have forgotten the rules set out in the Terms and Conditions of use

2) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, hateful and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.

If your idea of contribution to this thread is resort to schoolyard name calling and taunts, then I suggest you think again. Stick to the topic, and lay off each other.

I can't put it any clearer than that. An outbreak of peace is called for here.

Originally posted by Solomons
Yes, because signing up and viewing a website are the same thing.

Huh? What?
What on Earth are you babbling about? You must have me confused with someone else because I never mentioned anything about any websites.

I'd have more luck making a rock bleed than getting anything remotely coherent out of you.

I guess you need to sharpen your comprehension skills.
It's obvious you have trouble understanding when someone has an opposing opinion.

The school probably can impose their "separation of church and state" on a student in the same manner they can restrict what clothing a student is allowed to wear. Nothing too revealing, no harsh language, etc.

It's unfortunate, but i think it maybe legal.



[edit on 8-6-2009 by Fremd]

Originally posted by amazing
reply to post by Annee

 

I think "you" are missing the actual point of all of this and of course I'm also missing your point, but they are related! lol

Understand - I am just making a point. Plain and simple. I'm perfectly capable of seeing all sides and viewpoints.

But - I don't believe for one second Christians would stay quiet if a Luciferian was thanking Lucifer. (no I am not Luciferian).

In my town an already approved permit to build a Mosque (no I am not Islam) was revoked because of pressure from Christians. I will not support "do as I say - not as I do".

I wish this had gone to court - instead of backing down from pressure.

-----------------------------------------

BY THE WAY - Amazing - - Thanks for the cordiality and recognizing it is also my right to have a point - - whether anyone agrees with it or not.

[edit on 8-6-2009 by Annee]

What a shame.

Wasn't this country founded on religious freedom? We shouldn't be intolerant of ALL religions, but accepting of ALL religions. As long as we are cautious of the humanity of those around us and not trying to convert others to our beliefs system, we should be allowed to be open about our spirituality!

Political correctness can be a hell of a thing..