Air France Plane down

reply to post by sy.gunson


So quite literally as it depcits, plane travelling vertically at dangerous speeds.....

don't understand why it take them 1 day to release these infos ?

so... why ?

www.weathergraphics.com... (interesting analysis, doesn't conclude much though exept that maybe :

We can almost certainly count on some unexpected surprises once the CVR is recovered.

)

Heres another link with quite alot of recent info, plus some weather radar images for the area, pink being the most significant weather.


[edit on 2/6/2009 by who-me?]

In Towering cumulus cloud ... CBs, one encounters updrafts and down drafts going past one another at rates of 2000 feet per minute.

(Edited - CObzz corrects me that the vertical speed indication was of depressurisation. That makes sense. The aircraft's systems interpret loss of cabin pressure as descent whilst external sensors indicate it was still at 35,000ft... Thanks CObzz)

The AIDRU is an electronic nerve centre measuring aircraft movement.

en.wikipedia.org..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">AIDRU

It indicates the system trying to measure what the plane was doing was going haywire so you could say it was a bone jarring ride in the final seconds.

[edit on 2-6-2009 by sy.gunson]

reply to post by ::.mika.::


Thank you Mika, brilliant find.... Shows that between 0200Zulu and 0215Zulu it was going through a CB cloud and probably was being ripped apart. Terrible though but there's the evidence of what happened to this aircraft.

The smoking gun.

Can you advise what Cabin Vertical Speed means in Layman's terms please?

Aircraft fly at over 30,000 feet, as you know. Air is too thin for human consumption, so they pressurise the plane, usually to maximum equivalent of 8,000 feet. The plane is pressurised by air compressed by the engines, and the air slowly escapes through door seals and outflow valves that are controlled by computers (or manually), to control pressurisation. So, Cabin Vertical Speed would mean that the plane is decompressing quickly - which indicates decompression (doesn't have to be "explosive"), or maybe structural failure.

Generally lightning enters an aircraft at one extremity, and exits at the other extremity, and it does this usually leaving a small amount of damage at the exit hole. I wonder if that would be enough to breach the pressure vessel (correct term?), maybe causing failure.

However, before their was a cabin rate message, their was..........

Between 02:11GMT and 02:13GMT a flurry of messages regarding ADIRU and ISIS faults arrived. (failures of the autopilot guidance system)

At 02:13GMT PRIM 1 and SEC 1 faults were indicated (electrical failures)

Pressurisation is controlled by computers - so maybe it was an electrical fault, caused by lightning or others. Also, ADIRU...

15 January 2009 - The EASA issues Emergency Airworthiness Directive No 2009-0012-E to address the above A330 and A340 Northrop-Grumman ADIRU problem of incorrectly responding to a defective inertial reference.

wikipedia

I wonder what we'll see... Maybe that was what was causing the turbulence problems?

[edit on 2/6/2009 by C0bzz]

reply to post by C0bzz


Thank you, that makes it much more easy to understand!

So it's about rapid depressurisation, however, what caused this still remains a mystery? Although the heavy storms over the area at the time are likely to have played their part?

reply to post by 0010110011101


Apologies CObzz I was wrong and misunderstood. So the vertical speed reading was for depressurisation ?

So it's about rapid depressurisation, however, what caused this still remains a mystery? Although the heavy storms over the area at the time are likely to have played their part?

Yes, and storms might of played a part. This is still a very big mystery.

reply to post by sy.gunson


Yes, I'm certain.

New information provided by sources within Air France suggests, that the ACARS messages of system failures started to arrive at 02:10Z indicating, that the autopilot had disengaged and the fly by wire system had changed to alternate law. Between 02:11Z and 02:13Z a flurry of messages regarding ADIRU and ISIS faults arrived, at 02:13Z PRIM 1 and SEC 1 faults were indicated, at 02:14Z the last message received was an advisory regarding cabin vertical speed. That sequence of messages could not be independently verified."

The Aviation Herald

Def electrical, IMO, but we shall see....

[edit on 2/6/2009 by C0bzz]

reply to post by C0bzz


Yeah CObzz, it did go through a thunder cloud. Did you bother to read Mika's post above about weather graphics ?

www.weathergraphics.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">Weather for Flight447

Go to this link and scroll down to infra red satellite images (in red and orange) with a little purple flight track through the cloud (using ACARS data)

Heres a post I put in the other slightly less than investigative thread on this subject..:

The following text is quote from PPRuNe Forums. (Professional Pilots Rumour Network)

I read somewhere that Air France 447's wing touched an A320 rudder in a taxi incident prior to departure. The A320's rudder was severely damaged, but AF447's A330 wingtip was not. AF447 departed, and is now missing.

First things first: Did the taxi incident occur?

Answers to big problems or issues are often simple. Here is one possibility: AF447's wing was weakened if not visibly damaged; the airplane suffered stresses during flight via flight in turbulence; the damaged, stressed wing broke off; the airplane plummeted into the sea.

What supports this?

1. Alleged taxi incident involving A320 and AF447.
2. Alleged time delay of four minutes from altitude to impact.
3. No calls from the pilots.
4. Sudden spurt of messages sent to base: multiple system failures.
5. Item 3. and 4. indicate an inflight breakup.
6. Airplanes don't fall out of the sky for no reason.

[edit on 2/6/2009 by who-me?]Added quote tags for clarity.

[edit on 2/6/2009 by who-me?]

From Mika's source, he used an old flight route to extrapolate the air france af447/airbus 330-200.

Check the animated GOES sat-data with the flight route as a blue cross, it looks really nasty. www.weathergraphics.com...

Using McIDAS I acquired satellite GOES-10 satellite data from UCAR and centered it over the region between INTOL and TASIL. In the image below, the stationary southerly point in blue is INTOL and the aircraft's estimated location from the above table is marked with a cross.

The plane flew straight through three key thunderstorm clusters.

...Temperature trends suggested that the entire system was at peak intensity ... finally a large multicell convective system (MCS)

In the comments section

G day Tim
I am an Air France Captain, found your post very interesting and if true, will be hugely damaging for Air France.
Best regards
B-----

That was a bad call the pilot and co-pilots did.

[edit on 2009/6/2 by reugen]

reply to post by sy.gunson


the thing is that thess conditions don't seem to be exceptional at all, the analyst insisting on saying that it cannot be those turbulence only and that there has to be something else involved...

reply to post by who-me?


wahoooo

you have link to that forum ? (please)

and that'll explain AF silence and confused communication

and would correlate also with weather analysis

[edit on 2-6-2009 by ::.mika.::]

Well Mika I have to agree with a comment above yours that if true this is hugely damaging for Air France because it means the pilots took no evasive action but flew right through a CB cell.

Pilots are equipped with weather radar precisely so they can avoid these clouds. These clouds are to aircraft what sharks are to swimmers.

reply to post by who-me?


Err, definitely gonna need some corroboration of that fact.

1. Possibly

2. Not necessarily impact with sea but perhaps break up due to turbulence and as it plummeted.

3. Definitely bizarre, depressurisation due to possible lightning strike/turbulence also caused immediate electrical faults which set off the automated warnings but by that time crew and passengers already unconscious.

4. See above.

5. See above

6. No they don't see above.

reply to post by ::.mika.::


I think you have to sign up to read, but any way its post number 456 on page 22 of this thread in their rumours and news section.
Main forum home pages is www.pprune.org...

Remember the title of the forum I have linked to here. It is interesting that this has been brought up however I am not implying it as fact, just worthy of some more investigation.



[edit on 2/6/2009 by who-me?]

i still say , as i did 20 pages back , the airplane shook itself apart - im very sure when the get teh CVR that there will be , likely around 02.00z the famous message

`please place you seats to the upright position and tray tables stowed , this might get a little bumpy`

For the record the more information that is coming out about this crash, the more I am thinking that there is a conspiracy here. Has anyone seen the flight list? was there anybody on this plane that could have caused a problem for TPTB.

Before you ridicule remember all the information that is coming to light now about 911.

reply to post by who-me?


i meant where did you read about the taxi accident ?