Did North Korea just test a Nuke? YES they did!

This is the same as the missile incident last month.

They are testing the water. Seeing how far they can push things before someone reacts.

Obama doesn't seem to be much of an action guy. I never liked Bush (hate is probably a good word), but I don't doubt he would have responded to this latest provocation.

Will Obama do much except a stern talking to and a slap on the wrist?

A shocking precedent was already set when no response was taken to the rocket launch last month. They think they can do whatever they like unopposed.

They might be right.

reply to post by Sherlock2009



Not being snarky but who would you recommend to handle this little madman and his nukes?

Originally posted by sliceNodice
North Korea is clearly trying to scare and provoke us. First, they launch a missile on the 4th of July... Now on Memorial Day. The day of remembrance for our troops... They set off a nuke. This really stinks of NWO imo btw... It's really putting me on edge.

Who says the timing of this was directed at the USA?

It coincided pretty much exactly with the opening of the ASEM Foreign Minister's meeting this morning in Hanoi. FMs from the EU and pretty much all of Asia are there. North Korea isn't, but they've quickly become the main topic.

I didn't see it mentioned in the news story that this could be the exact same site suspsected of the original Nuclear test from October 2006.

In October 2006, North Korea witnessed the incredible diplomatic success it could reap from belligerence. Its first nuclear test brought resumption of the six-party talks, which gave Kim Jong Il cover to further advance his nuclear program.

But it isn't mentioned where the first nuclear test took place.
I went to some of the links posted by people responding to the news agency's story.

It turns out that this is the exact same place the first nuclear test took place back in October 2006.

from..
eyeball-series.org...

16 October 2006. Add DNI release.

www.dni.gov...

OFFICE OF THE DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE
PUBLIC AFFAIRS OFFICE
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20511
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE ODNI News Release No. 19-06

October 16, 2006

Statement by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence on the North Korea Nuclear Test

"Analysis of air samples collected on October 11, 2006 detected radioactive debris which confirms that North Korea conducted an underground nuclear explosion in the vicinity of P'unggye on October 9, 2006. The explosion yield was less than a kiloton."

# # #

A P'unggye-ri is located at coordinates 41.1361N, 129.1567E, several miles south of the location of the seismic disturbance at 41.294N, 129.094E reported by USGS below. There is another city by the same name some distance to the north.

14 October 2006. USGS has moved the epicenter of the North Korean "seismic disturbance" about 2.5 miles west of the original reported location, and has reduced the uncertainty measurement from 6.5 miles to 4.5 miles. Revised and new Google Earth annotated photos added. While there are a number of mine openings shown in the area, little of the tailings which would indicate deep mining are seen, although tailings may have been removed to camouflage deep mining.

An interesting area several miles to the north of the seismic disturbance shows a mountain top cleared and levelled with what appear to be numerous boreholes regularly spaced in the cleared area. Photos of this area below. As with other North Korean mining exploration and development these may be conventional probes for ore and unrelated to nuclear testing. However, dual-use mining would be expected for both military and commercial purposes as North Korea develops its underground protection of military, governmental and public facilities. Comments invited on what this could be. Send to jya[at]cryptome.net.

The site sais the quake epicenter (from 2006)was here:
41.294N, 129.094E
With a margin of error given by USGS of around 4.5 miles
..as reported by the USGS on October 13, 2006.

Keep in mind the 4.5 mile margin allowed for error.

Now draw a line between these coordinates (2006 test):
41.294N, 129.094E
and the coordiantes mentioned in the news story noted for this seismic event (2009 test):
41.285°N, 129.004°E
What you end up with is a distance of approximately 4 and a half miles (give or take).

This could, technically, be the exact same site (or at least right next to each other). I plotted the points in google earth, measured the distance, and saved a screenshot to illustrate this (though the distance dialog box didn't show up, you get the idea).



However, When you look closely at the coordinates given in the news story for this recent seismic event, there appears to be roads and structures nearby those exact coordinates that could potentially be used for just such a testing effort.

And there is also this area that almost looks like a cave (although it is difficult to tell). It is approximately 1700 feet from the exact coordinates given in the news story. Perfect place for a nuclear test.




-ChriS



[edit on 25-5-2009 by BlasteR]

Who do the bastards think they are!!!???? nobody can have nukes but those of us in the club. NOOOOBODDDDDDY!!!!!!

Lol I understand the fear this is causing. It scares me too, but it's a bit messed up that we (America) believe we are the only ones responsible enough to have nukes. I know Obama wants to get rid of them...but that would just make us a bit target, especially now...

Originally posted by Republican08
I have a funny feeling Obama's out barbequing right now, wait how stupid am I, he's having someone else barbeque for him pardon my ignorance.

This adminstration is very loose, albeit bush wasn't great, but I did feel relatively safe during it, this one I feel N. Korea could launch a nuke over here, and while it was coming Obama would just hold a press conference with a teleprompter telling everyone it'll be ok, then big smile for photo op.

Uh, N.Korea did the same things during the Bush administration. It doesn't matter who's in the White House, Kim Jong Il does what he wants when the wants regardless. You really think he believes Bush would have been harder on him were he to launch a nuke at Hawaii or the West Coast? He knows he's done for no matter who's sitting in the Oval Office.

Hey, also; why does Kim Jong Il feel the way he does toward the United States? His hostility bears analyzing and understanding. Certainly this isn't a religious issue. So, what's his gripe, and is there merit to it or not?

reply to post by fooffstarr


Quite a few people have said that Bush wouldn't have responded, and I agree, but not through tactical decision. Bush didn't know what was going on in the world unless it involved American profit.

Like most others I expect the UN will have an emergency meeting, to discuss when they can have a meeting, to discuss what biscuits to have at their N.Korea meeting. They're a neutered, pointless organization designed to keep more elites in wealthy positions, nothing more.

Obama will likely smile for the cameras and bang on about how "there needs to be change" (yeah, we get that Obama, we heard you the first time. Stop talking about change and actually bring some about!)

Ignoring this will force N.Korea into taking another step.
Giving in and giving aid will only feed their army, sustain their abilities to control the country, and it'll mean they've bullied the world yet again into submitting and placating. It hasn't worked before and it won't work now.

After considering this for a few hours now, I think the only option would be for a joint installation for defensive action in, or off the coast of, S.Korea. The U.S, Russia, Japan, S.Korea, UK, (basically a new coalition) ready and able to respond with force if N.Korea makes any move on the south.

We then all need to issue a direct statement to N.Korea that if so much as a fart breaches their borders in any direction their military installations will be attacked.
It's sad that there is the danger of Seoul being attacked, but over time people will leave for a safer location. As long as it can be held off for a couple of months many will be saved.
Tactically, while there is a lot of weaponry pointed at Seoul, a joint strike by a coalition should be able to destroy this threat within hours.
But it should never have gotten to this point. There should never have been this scenario where one country can hold the world to ransom by holding a city hostage.

How long should the world gamble for?
Yes, it's likely many will die if any attack is launched against N.Korea, but how many will die anyway when the North has a nuke to drop on Seoul?

Do we seriously think that they won't do it? We don't even know who is in control of N.Korea right now, but whoever it is has been giving signals for the past year that they fully intend to attack the south.

Personally, I think this will move into a war within the next few months. Why? because war follows financial crisis. It has a bad habit of kicking the economy up the ass and getting production moving quickly. It creates cooperation (useful right now between Russia and the rest of the world), creates a distraction from domestic affairs (useful for the UK, USA, most of Europe), it creates patriotism and, most of all, makes you, the American citizen, happy to live within limited means for the benefit of your nation (same for all of us)

reply to post by detachedindividual


The Seoul problem is, most likely, one of the only things keeping some of the closer Asian nations from taking out NK.

It is like a hostage situation.

Attempting to take out the terrorists means the death of innocent civilians. Not acting means their next move becomes more brazen.

It is a lose / lose situation really.

Until the artillery aimed at Seoul is taken out of the equation, NK will continue to act carelessly in the face of international opinion.

reply to post by BlasteR


A lot of good work there, but I could have told you that with a link to the BBC, they said this morning that the location was just miles for the original test site in 2006

TBH, I'm not sure what difference it makes where they tested. But I am curious as to why they tested under ground.
I don't know a lot about these things, but I would have thought that these tests are usually conducted under ground for secrecy, so that no other nation can take a peek at your goods and hit you before you get the chance to test?

But if this was just provocation, what difference would it make? In fact, if another nation had targeted them to prevent the test, it would have given them more excuse to argue, and more propaganda for their people too.

reply to post by mikerussellus


Ok, i'll play.
Who do you recommend to handle the USA if they fly off the handle and let one go? Its always one sided.
USA tests all the time and N Korea dont say "no, you cant do that".

Look, I dont agree with any of it but the American War Machine is hell bent on being the greates military might on the planet and that in itself is wrong. If they are alowed too, why is no one else?

Who cares about North Korea? They can't put it on a missile... the only way to deliver it would be to put it on a bomber and drop it. Good luck with that.

And who gave nuclear power to North Korea in the first place? Clinton!

reply to post by fooffstarr


How much artillery are we talking about here though?

Surely a coalition of nations would have the required forces to be able to remove this threat with a concerted effort?
I'm sure they'd get quite a few shots off first, but much of it could be taken out pretty quickly, I'll bet. I'm inclined to think that this hasn't been considered previously because there weren't that many nations inclined to assist. That has changed now, especially with Russia and Japan pretty much on side.

In the face of an international presence off their coasts, I actually think N.Korea could back down. They are already a crippled nation, can they really risk attacking the south and the wrath that it would bring?

There are some great post here! However some info is wrong. The much talked about "suitcase nuke" is not as simple as most think. Without daily upkeep they become nothing more than dirty bombs. Left in storage for any length of time and they are nothing more than a dirty box. NK will not have the ability to make one in next 100 years. Even if the Russian mob got one to them it would be likely a dud and probably kill the idiots trying to transport it. Now on to this test. NK is trying to tell it's own people something as much as it is the USA. It also knows that the US will not give much "aid" directly over this. However the US can get them aid through China or India. The Chinese are the ones who really hate this stupid game. The modern China does not want war or like the idea of war. Despite what we hear from the media machine the people of China hate the North Koreans. They are a constant headache to China. With the current world economy in almost free fall the Chinese are going to want to put this problem to rest quickly. The UN will meet and get nothing done. China will send somebody to meet with that little idiot in NK and I am sure scare the crap out of him. China could invade NK like wiping their nose. Most of the world would applaud China for "saving" the people of NK and ending that little fruitcakes reign of terror. By unifying Korea we will give a hell of a bump to the world markets and scare the piss out of Iran. Oh and last. To those calling the US the "world police" and why can we have nukes..... Hey we got their first, we were smarter...Life aint fair. Buy a helmet.

Chris

reply to post by Sherlock2009


The one major difference is that America hasn't repeatedly threatened to wipe another country off the face of the Earth.

I'm with you on the whole double-standards argument, but the fact is there are several highly dangerous and unpredictable nations in this world.

Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan. all have (had in the case of Iraq and Afghanistan) regular scenes of mass unrest and violent religious rhetoric at the mere mention of something they don't agree with.

A teacher named a bear Mohammed and the people were calling for her execution!

These countries are unstable, trigger-happy, volatile and hard-line. Their leadership structures are nothing like the rest in that they lack experience in global diplomacy, restraint and responsibility. They care little for their people and remaining in power through election, and are quite happy to see their country destroyed and their people killed if it means they get one-up on the guy next door.

Having said all of that, I also believe that other nations should lead by example. If we don't want other nations to go down the nuclear path, we have to start by dismantling our own arsenals. Which is what I believe we are doing, very slowly. It's a start.
But we still should be working to prevent others from starting their own regional nuclear races, especially while we are slowly letting our weapons go.

reply to post by komp_uk
damn...maybe the UFOs will be investigating now.

maybe it shouldn't have been iraq.

Originally posted by christopher_scott
To those calling the US the "world police" and why can we have nukes..... Hey we got their first, we were smarter...Life aint fair. Buy a helmet.

Chris

I'm pretty sure the Nazis got there first. But that's just my belief.

The Nazis were working on some pretty startling technology during WW2; things that we still have no clue of now.
We still don't know how they made foo fighters (the general belief is that they did).
Remnants of their technological research exist now, and we don't know what the concrete ring attached to a power station was for

Besides, if "we got there first" wins every argument, leave your country and hand the land back to the Native Americans!

[edit on 25-5-2009 by detachedindividual]

www.boston.com...

www.foreignpolicy.com...


Two interesting picture compilations from within North Korea.
Pictures from within the country are kind of hard to find, so i took great interest in these.

Be sure to read the captions in the second link, they're both depressing and funny.

Let's see here now-Here is the problem: #1. North Korea is hell bent on accumulating as many of the most dangerous weapons on the planet as possible. #2. They have missle delivery systems (that are getting more & more technologically advanced) to strike a large area in that part of the world. #3. They have no problem exporting their technology around the world to enemy states and terrorist organizations. #4. Evidently, no country in the region has the desire/ability to do anything about the aggressive stance North Korea is taking (they're all waiting for the USA to do it for them). #5. The United Nations is once again showing it is a do nothing entity with no real power that should be dissolved. #6. The United States has thousands of brave men in harms way and WILL be killed if their nut case leader decides to launch.
The solution: Since we have such a strong military presence in that region wouldn't it be prudent for the United States military to eliminate these weapons once and for all? All diplomatic attempts to resolve this problem have failed; all "AID" (bribery) has failed. Use several Tomahawk missles fired at their command and control facilities to cripple them. Then at the same time launch a couple of nuclear tipped Tomahawk missles at their nuclear facilities that are located in isolated areas (which reduces the possibility of civilian casualties) and destroy those facilities. This would give the North Koreans an excellent demonstration as to what these terrible weapons REALLY do. Then we (USA, Russia, China, South Korea, Japan) could sit down with them and spell out how we can help them move forward with their country hopefully with new leadership.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
reply to post by fooffstarr

 

How much artillery are we talking about here though?

I haven't got a source I can link, but in other NK-related threads, the figure of 10,000 artillery pieces comes up regularly.

EDIT: Ok, I've found figures. Global Security

In total, NK has over 10,400 pieces of artillery. (Self-propelled, towed and rocket).

According to the wikipedia page, the exact number of in service artillery pieces is unknown.

Every piece would be camouflaged and probably moved regularly enough to keep satellites guessing.

I don't think, without simply destroying the entire strip of land on their side of the DMZ for many kilometers, that even half of the guns could be taken out easily.

So, the threat to Seoul is real and not easily solved. 10 million people in the firing line is nothing to be sneezed at.

So, under an extremely conservative estimate of each piece firing 1 shell a minute, that means that after one hour over 600,000 shells could hit Seoul. That would kill probably half the population.

[edit on 25-5-2009 by fooffstarr]