Remnants of the Illuminati

...do we assume that there is a secret group of 'Illuminati'?

Why assume anything?

Likewise, it seems the Rosicrucian name is claimed by various groups even if there is no longer an 'original'.

That illumination can be 'given' to those that seek it?

Given? By whom? I do not doubt it can be sought and attained independently of a group. The advantage of a group, as I see it, is having some guidance in matters. Not as a formula per se, but as a beacon of light on the mountain (to use the metaphor from your other post). One thing I would personally find helpful is to know if certain phenomena, body sensations, emotional states, epiphanies and thoughts are commonly experienced by those seeking attainment. For example, hearing "X is pretty typical, you've nothing to worry about" from someone experienced in the matter vs. wondering whether or not X means you're going insane can assist in proper focus.

Or do we work on the assumption that such a group doesn't exist and that what in fact we have are many individuals in relative isolation and without a cohesive goal?

There are groups. I don't think there's any doubt about it. If we're talking specifically about the Shards, who knows. We know Maban claimed to be part of a group that communicate with one another and ackowledge one anothers membership. What does claiming he is part of a group bring to his message if there is in fact no such group or he is not part of it? Is it merely an attempt to increase the appeal by authority and branding? As I see it, we are awash in that fallacy within the current system and those flames require no further fanning.

That is, rather than a group of like minded individuals with a common goal, we have many individuals, who in isolation, are working on seperate or individual goals, but with the same eventual goal in mind.

If a set of individuals in question are truely like minded, chances are they have similar goals in mind and are not very divergent in their methods. If that set simply shares an ultimate common goal, their methods could diverge wildly to the point of mutual interference.

Whether they constitute a group or not depends upon whether they communicate and assist one another in those goals by agreeing on specific plans of action and whether they draw a common imaginary boundary that separates themselves from the rest of society.

We can assume that there are those who work for materialistic or selfish goals, proportionately, what is there to counteract that? Does that make sense?

There are definitely those who work for materialistic and selfish goals. To some extent I work for materialistic and selfish goals but not exclusively. The key distinction is that I do not work for them in order to deny others fulfillment but to improve my own lot. Consequently, if my lot is better then I am in a better position to share that lot in order to help others. I do not believe that for me to have abundance, that another must not.

If I were to teach a man to fish, I would also like to have the means to buy him a boat, a rod and reel, and bait to get him started. Perhaps I would like to provide some fish as well while he gets the operation under way. Anyone that wishes to learn how to fish should simply have to ask.

There are at least two ways I can think of to destroy the dark side; counteract it by living life in an opposing polarity, encouraging and teaching others or give it everything it wants without resistance.

Fully materialistic and selfish goals are in truth goals of self destruction. Some may believe otherwise because they are fooled while others know it and in fact struggle for self annihilation where the goal is to create suffering at any cost.

There was a program on T.V. about white supremacist groups in the prison system. The main thing I remember from it was from an iterview with, if I recall correctly, one of the guards about the change in the profile of violence in recent years. He said that the problem was no longer so much white supremacist violence against other groups in the prison, but violence against each other. If the account is true, it gives a clearer window into how the mind of hate really operates.

I'm struggling to explain what I mean here, so indulge me a little if you can. But if say, someone like Maban or yourself for that matter, felt that they had something of import to express, he could justly claim lineage to all who have been illuminated, including the Bavarian Illuminati (in principle), but that would not mean that he was a member of a larger group, simply a 'follower' of a much older body of knowledge and tradition.

Absolutely. It isn't "Illuminati (tm)". What I find troubling is that each of these groups claim 'true' heritage and 'true' knowledge. I do not see their attitudes about one another as any different from the very ones espoused by the religions that have had a role in plaguing us with war and intolerance for millennia. Even if they succeed in expunging the widely held 'false' belief systems and current political systems, I feel that their rise to power in a vacuum could lead to more of the same. They won't truely have been put to the test until they are tempted to impose their ideals out in the open. I pray that there is more enlightenment present than is currently evident and that an exit plan exists for razing the walls between each other and society for general disbandment when the time is right. Note that I am referring to what we might call the "good guys". The others are already doing a bang-up job and have been for long enough.

(do you make) Clothing for yourself?

No, not for me. Some items for my girlfriend. It looked like it was going to get so bad that I was going to buy a serger machine but thankfully things quieted down several years ago.

...I really think you should provide photographic evidence to support that claim, I'm suspecting a kaftan...

A kaftan? Of all the things...

Just sweat pants and teeshirts most of the time. There is no personal fashion sense here.

Do you cook too?

I reckon so. I am especially in demand when it comes to frying things.

Your lady should count her blessings, you sound like a catch.

In her opinion, it's kind of like having a Tasmanian devil for a pet-- my simile, but I think that it adequately describes it.

Originally posted by EnlightenUp

...do we assume that there is a secret group of 'Illuminati'?

Why assume anything?

Because sometimes, if nothing else, it supplies a starting block. But, I can work, perhaps, without assumptions...

Likewise, it seems the Rosicrucian name is claimed by various groups even if there is no longer an 'original'.

Yes, just as there is no single form of Freemasonry, not really. To me, they're all just one Boy's Club after another, each with the intention, intially, of sharing illuminism (for want of another term). The difference, to my perception, is that in the case of Illuminati of Weishaupt we have not only a more secular approach but we also have a clear and present MO. And, an honesty in the need of secrets and stories to keep the initiates interested, the men that is. He had some notion of romanticising the stories more for the female initiates, giving them flower power or some such 18th century notion of feminine mystique. Either way, come one, come all, they are all selling a package designed to spread illuminism, just roses of different names. IMO of course.

Given? By whom?

Hmm...possibly a bad choice of words on my part, but it is more to do with the subjectivity of perception and possibly the desire to confirm by conformity.

I believe it is possible to convey certain information to another that could aid in their illumination, and that that person may feel that that is sufficient to consider themselves 'enlightened'. I also believe that you can use certain pointers to convince someone that what you present to them is 'enlightenment'. Is that clear? I'll try to find better expression if not. But there are various levels of 'reality' at play here.

I do not doubt it can be sought and attained independently of a group. The advantage of a group, as I see it, is having some guidance in matters. Not as a formula per se, but as a beacon of light on the mountain (to use the metaphor from your other post). One thing I would personally find helpful is to know if certain phenomena, body sensations, emotional states, epiphanies and thoughts are commonly experienced by those seeking attainment. For example, hearing "X is pretty typical, you've nothing to worry about" from someone experienced in the matter vs. wondering whether or not X means you're going insane can assist in proper focus.

Interesting. I think the wondering whether you're going insane is the fun part, I wouldn't want anyone to spoil the ending for me on that one.

There are groups. I don't think there's any doubt about it. If we're talking specifically about the Shards, who knows. We know Maban claimed to be part of a group that communicate with one another and ackowledge one anothers membership. What does claiming he is part of a group bring to his message if there is in fact no such group or he is not part of it? Is it merely an attempt to increase the appeal by authority and branding? As I see it, we are awash in that fallacy within the current system and those flames require no further fanning.

Well that was pretty much my argument with Maban from the beginning. We can all claim to be this, that and the other, who's going to check? Unless of course you claim to be a member of the Illuminati on a conspiracy website...oops...I agree though, it is/was unnecessary to the message and I can only assume, as we can neither prove nor disprove, that it all adds to the general mystique for those seeking secrets and stories. I at last seem to have exhausted the Maban topic in my own interest and don't think I have anymore to say about it unless the current state of play changes.

There are definitely those who work for materialistic and selfish goals. To some extent I work for materialistic and selfish goals but not exclusively. The key distinction is that I do not work for them in order to deny others fulfillment but to improve my own lot. Consequently, if my lot is better then I am in a better position to share that lot in order to help others. I do not believe that for me to have abundance, that another must not.

If we apply these principles to every aspect of our lives then we would be starting to really move in the right direction. Especially, who we bank with, who we buy shares in, the food that we eat and the clothes that we wear. It'd be a start at least.

There are at least two ways I can think of to destroy the dark side; counteract it by living life in an opposing polarity, encouraging and teaching others or give it everything it wants without resistance.

With the second way, I am going to be a little pedantic, should that perhaps be letting it 'take' rather than 'give'? I'm not sure, it makes better sense to me that way, if not, explain a little more what you mean.

Fully materialistic and selfish goals are in truth goals of self destruction. Some may believe otherwise because they are fooled while others know it and in fact struggle for self annihilation where the goal is to create suffering at any cost.

I agree, though I think often other factors are at play with the individual. I'm thinking specifically of groups like Skull and Bones which go through a humiliation ritual of some sort to create 'bond'. Also this can be seen, and I think Skull and Bones do a facsimilie, as a bastardised version of the shamanic death which brings upon an ecstatic vision. This bonding forms the basis of morality perception for those tied to it.

There was a program on T.V. about white supremacist groups in the prison system. The main thing I remember from it was from an iterview with, if I recall correctly, one of the guards about the change in the profile of violence in recent years. He said that the problem was no longer so much white supremacist violence against other groups in the prison, but violence against each other. If the account is true, it gives a clearer window into how the mind of hate really operates.

I should imagine it has much more to do with demographics than hate itself. The rats at the bottom of the pack will always turn on each other when it comes to food and sex. At the top those things are covered, so they only fight over position.

Absolutely. It isn't "Illuminati (tm)". What I find troubling is that each of these groups claim 'true' heritage and 'true' knowledge. I do not see their attitudes about one another as any different from the very ones espoused by the religions that have had a role in plaguing us with war and intolerance for millennia. Even if they succeed in expunging the widely held 'false' belief systems and current political systems, I feel that their rise to power in a vacuum could lead to more of the same. They won't truely have been put to the test until they are tempted to impose their ideals out in the open. I pray that there is more enlightenment present than is currently evident and that an exit plan exists for razing the walls between each other and society for general disbandment when the time is right. Note that I am referring to what we might call the "good guys". The others are already doing a bang-up job and have been for long enough.

Life's grand, innit?

A kaftan? Of all the things...

Don't knock it until you try it! I think all men should have at least one man-frock or skirt in their wardrobes (though I am yet to meet many men who agree with me).

Do you cook too?

I reckon so. I am especially in demand when it comes to frying things.

Ahh...hence the elasticated waistband clothing....

In her opinion, it's kind of like having a Tasmanian devil for a pet-- my simile, but I think that it adequately describes it.

So she counts her limbs rather than her blessings in case you got peckish.

[edit on 25-6-2009 by KilgoreTrout]

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


Ark of the Covenant About to Be Unveiled!

The patriarch of the Orthodox Church of Ethiopia says he will announce to the world Friday the unveiling of the Ark of the Covenant, perhaps the world's most prized archaeological and spiritual artifact, which he says has been hidden away in a church in his country for millennia, according to the Italian news agency Adnkronos.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Wasn't it discussed in the Shards thread that the Ark and the Lumen Ab Verum were one and the same or is that the Holy Grail? Interesting if this actually did occur.

[edit on 26-6-2009 by oconnection]

Originally posted by oconnection
Wasn't it discussed in the Shards thread that the Ark and the Lumen Ab Verum were one and the same or is that the Holy Grail? Interesting if this actually did occur.

I mentioned that I thought of the Ark of the Covenant when I heared about the LaV. The Lapis Exilus was also part of the thread discussion but I don't recall any conclusion being made. The LaV feels more "arky" than "grailey" to me. If there is only one, then there is a conflict. I have wondered if there could be more than one ark in actuality, four in fact, one for each "element", but that is my wild speculation.

Originally posted by oconnection
reply to post by KilgoreTrout

 

Ark of the Covenant About to Be Unveiled!

The patriarch of the Orthodox Church of Ethiopia says he will announce to the world Friday the unveiling of the Ark of the Covenant, perhaps the world's most prized archaeological and spiritual artifact, which he says has been hidden away in a church in his country for millennia, according to the Italian news agency Adnkronos.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Wasn't it discussed in the Shards thread that the Ark and the Lumen Ab Verum were one and the same or is that the Holy Grail? Interesting if this actually did occur.

Originally posted by EnlightenUp

Originally posted by oconnection
Wasn't it discussed in the Shards thread that the Ark and the Lumen Ab Verum were one and the same or is that the Holy Grail? Interesting if this actually did occur.

I mentioned that I thought of the Ark of the Covenant when I heared about the LaV. The Lapis Exilus was also part of the thread discussion but I don't recall any conclusion being made. The LaV feels more "arky" than "grailey" to me. If there is only one, then there is a conflict. I have wondered if there could be more than one ark in actuality, four in fact, one for each "element", but that is my wild speculation.

There was a documentary or two several years ago linking the Ark with Ethiopia, as I recall, the Ethiopian Orthodox Church claim lineage with the Alexandrian/Egyptian Coptic Christians...but presumably, if the Ark is the LaV then it couldn't have been hidden in Ethiopia, if it was hidden in Tibet. It is surely, one or the other, unless, there are two, or even four as E-Up suggests.

However, my suspicious mind tells me that, if they really had the 'actual' Ark, if in fact such a physical artifact exists, why not just go 'ta da' here it is. Why the build up? It's all a bit, James Cameron and Jesus's tomb for my liking...

My Ark knowledge is somewhat limited to Charlton Heston and Harrison Ford...isn't it the alleged recepticle of the ten commandments...? Am I thinking of something else entirely?

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
There was a documentary or two several years ago linking the Ark with Ethiopia, as I recall, the Ethiopian Orthodox Church claim lineage with the Alexandrian/Egyptian Coptic Christians...

I recall such a program as well.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
However, my suspicious mind tells me that, if they really had the 'actual' Ark, if in fact such a physical artifact exists, why not just go 'ta da' here it is. Why the build up? It's all a bit, James Cameron and Jesus's tomb for my liking...

Why?! You are a fairly longtime ATS member and you have to ask why? It is the dangling carrot technique whereby you titillate people with stories that you are in possession of something special and mysterious and proceed to continually fall short of actually revealing it.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
My Ark knowledge is somewhat limited to Charlton Heston and Harrison Ford...isn't it the alleged recepticle of the ten commandments...? Am I thinking of something else entirely?

'Tis. Perhaps the Ethiopians only have the case used to carry the Lumen ab Verum. Perhaps there is some old junk Moses left in there but the actual power source was in the care of the Shards and is now, as Maban stated, in some unknown place in the wilderness that the Buddhist monks took it.

Oh, and:

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
Ahh...hence the elasticated waistband clothing....

My waitband isn't really in too much need of elasticity, thank you much.

I will admit I am a natural blonde and that may help to explain to you the incontinent effluvium shone in my verbal communication.

[edit on 6/27/2009 by EnlightenUp]

[edit on 6/27/2009 by EnlightenUp]

Remember this bit of fugued insanity I posted on this thread?

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
It may try to raise the consciousness of other terrestrial species in order to survive without humans, who will no longer possess compatible mental hardware.

Now there is this ATS thread:
Something strange is happening in the forests of Africa.

At a site called Fongoli, in Senegal, [Chimpanzees] have ... invented a remarkable way to catch a meal. They are making spears and hunting, just like our ancestors.

[edit on 6/28/2009 by EnlightenUp]

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
'Tis. Perhaps the Ethiopians only have the case used to carry the Lumen ab Verum. Perhaps there is some old junk Moses left in there but the actual power source was in the care of the Shards and is now, as Maban stated, in some unknown place in the wilderness that the Buddhist monks took it.

Okay...but if the Ark is the carry-case of the LaV, where do the Ten Commandments come in? Did Moses talk to 'God' or the LaV? Perhaps they should both be in quotes for equal measure... Or did Moses have an ecstatic vision that enabled him to translate part of the data on the LaV?

Either way, under all circumstances, why would any advanced type being or beings feel it necessary to tell us that it was wrong to murder...and etc. You'd really think that there would be 'higher' priorities than the imposition of laws. Surely an advanced whatever would understand the futility in shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. Or maybe not...

I was reminded somewhat of this, from another thread...

Originally posted by Mirthful Me

Originally posted by GIGANTIC SKY OTTER
So, we have now established here a meaning behind this colour contrasted patterning.

Hopefully.

Would any knowledgeable person care to shed a little more light on that meaning? How do these opposites work? What is good, and what is evil? Who is good, and who is bad?

Please define, or further explain.

Sorry, that's it... And this may be what throws people; your question would be defined by the individual, their faith, and personal ethics and morality. Freemasonry doesn't define good and evil, we have religion, and social structure and standards to define those specifics. Freemasonry reminds us of our moral, ethical, and spiritual obligations, and implores us to apply them.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm not sure, but for me, advance implies a breaking away from, not a building upon.

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
My waitband isn't really in too much need of elasticity, thank you much.

Hehe..I wasn't insinuating anything of the sort, I was merely observing that on a diet of fried food, you and your girlfriend may appreciate a little elasticity to accommodate any post-dining bloating. I am sure your proportions are quite perfect for you.

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
I will admit I am a natural blonde and that may help to explain to you the incontinent effluvium shone in my verbal communication.

Ahh that does explain much (after consulting a dictionary and some thought)...

Also, blondes do have more fun, though largely, it must be said, amongst themselves

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
Remember this bit of fugued insanity I posted on this thread?

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
It may try to raise the consciousness of other terrestrial species in order to survive without humans, who will no longer possess compatible mental hardware.

Now there is this ATS thread:
Something strange is happening in the forests of Africa.

At a site called Fongoli, in Senegal, [Chimpanzees] have ... invented a remarkable way to catch a meal. They are making spears and hunting, just like our ancestors.

When they can manufacturer and/or earn the money to buy weapons then we should be worried. Or perhaps then they should be worried...

If they raise the consciousness of viruses, then we should fill our pants!

I'd recommend that you watch this video, scroll forward to about 49 minutes into the film, then tell me what you think. This is really for people who were following the shards post. The second point he made specifically. Lets see if you can see what I'm talking about in relation to the Shards post.

Google Video Link

reply to post by oconnection


I watched from about 48 minutes and I think if I get the chance I will watch the rest later. Interesting at least. Thanks for posting it.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


Yea after spending a bit if time on this video he seems to merge all the popular conspiracy theories. I just found it interesting because it seemed to line up with the whole "Enlightened Ones" idea from the Shards thread.

This guys credibility is in series question, apparently his medical license is suspended after killing one of his patients and seriously injuring two others. He claims to have there during the Oklahoma bombing, and the Waco shoot out, has a whole intelligence network in the Blackops world, visited many underground bases, had offers to create many biological weapons, ect ect, seen God, met a council of 24 enlightened beings, been taken up by Gabriel the Arch Angel, claims to be a prophet, claims to be a descendant of Moses, just to start. Clearly this guy would be the most amazing person in modern history. I find it pretty unbelievable. :lol

But when your talking about the stuff he's talking about it would take a mountain of evidence to back up his claims. We have circumstantial evidence when you look but it doesn't prove anything, so take what he's saying with a grain of salt. But I don't really feel like I need to tell you guys that, we have a highly intelligent bunch.

Where did this idea of a council of Enlightened Ones come from because his accounts seem to line up perfectly with the Shards thread. So I wonder if this was a borrowed idea.

[edit on 29-6-2009 by oconnection]

Originally posted by oconnection
Where did this idea of a council of Enlightened Ones come from because his accounts seem to line up perfectly with the Shards thread. So I wonder if this was a borrowed idea.

Isn't a "council of elders/wise one/enlightened ones" a recurring theme present in many things possessing a mystical air? It is clearly there in the Appleseed films, occult secret societies such as The Great White Brotherhood and even described in near death experiences. I doubt there's any shortage of inspirational sources.

Besides, where did Maban specifically mention the existence of a council of Enlightened Ones? I thought the Icelandic Council was the highest level of the organization. Please feel free to tell me to review things if my memory is faulty.

derail for a moment...

Last night on History Channel I was watching "Banned from the Bible II" and they were talking about Aseneth, who was supposedly the first wife of Joseph.

She was the daughter of an Egyptian priest. She is rejected at first by Joseph and kind of freaks out for six days praying. Then God appears and there follows a strange ritual where all these bees are flying around and stinging her on the lips.

Aseneth

The thing that struck me was the 'bee' theme again.

In other news - the "Ark of the Covenant" was supposed to be unveiled this week, but I guess they decided not to do it.

Originally posted by oconnection
reply to post by KilgoreTrout

 

Yea after spending a bit if time on this video he seems to merge all the popular conspiracy theories. I just found it interesting because it seemed to line up with the whole "Enlightened Ones" idea from the Shards thread.

I didn't get chance to watch it anyway and probably won't bother now after such a glowing recommendation from you.

However, the bit I did watch, what struck me was not what you noted. I was interested in what he said about prophets and their frequency (occurence, not bandwidth). That history or the bible has taught us to follow just one, but in fact there are many, all the time, everywhere, all with snippets. That is something I agree with, in a way, which is perhaps why I picked up on it. And, I also thought it was pertinent.

I don't necessarily agree with the way in which he packages it, or interprets that, but there were elements of what he said (in the three or four minutes that I watched ) that I agree with in essence or feel are plausible. But well, then I read your little review...gosh...but still think he has a point on that particular point.

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
Besides, where did Maban specifically mention the existence of a council of Enlightened Ones? I thought the Icelandic Council was the highest level of the organization. Please feel free to tell me to review things if my memory is faulty.

If I recall correctly Maban hadn't met the Enlightened Ones and no one in the Shards had either. I am almost sure that none of them had even communicated with them directly, or if they had it wasn't in the traditional or bog-standard sense. I was assuming, once I heard of the LaV, that they had only learned of the Enlightened Ones through that. I may be much mistaken and making assumptions again, but that was the gist I got.

So according to my reckoning your memory is indeed correct.

Originally posted by emsed1
Last night on History Channel I was watching "Banned from the Bible II" and they were talking about Aseneth, who was supposedly the first wife of Joseph.

Isn't this a bit like the story of Lilith, the first wife of Adam? I think spannera posted something similar about bees and Lilith too.

Or did I dream it?

Originally posted by emsed1
The thing that struck me was the 'bee' theme again.

Funnily enough, my Mum was telling me about a book she is reading and the 'Dwale' and the Benedictine Monks who produced it is mentioned in it, another nugget that spannera posted. There is this whole relationship with religious/spiritual leadership/(ownership?), bees (and honey) and alcohol.

And, it is all a bit chicken and egg.

Originally posted by emsed1
In other news - the "Ark of the Covenant" was supposed to be unveiled this week, but I guess they decided not to do it.

I expect that they made the mistake of opening the Ark, who wouldn't be curious after all, and all concerned have, as predicted by the prophet Lucas, been well and truly dessicated .

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
If I recall correctly Maban hadn't met the Enlightened Ones and no one in the Shards had either. I am almost sure that none of them had even communicated with them directly, or if they had it wasn't in the traditional or bog-standard sense.

He did in fact state in U2U's that they have indeed had contact with the Enlightened Ones, possibly multiple contacts if I understood him correctly. He was reticent about sharing much detail on the appearance or other attributes of the Enlightened One on the grounds that this contact would be seen as "doing too much". I asked why it would be seen that way and he said it would be viewed as essentially calling for mommy instead of being able to handle competently one's own affairs. I am not certain about who's opinion he meant the Shards really cared.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
I was assuming, once I heard of the LaV, that they had only learned of the Enlightened Ones through that. I may be much mistaken and making assumptions again, but that was the gist I got.

Somewhere he mentioned his group had the Enlightened Ones blessing which to me implies the likelyhood of some sort of contact. According to Maban in U2U, it's not likely the Shards initiated the contact when he said that they had a means of contact that they did not know how to use.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
I think spannera posted something similar about bees and Lilith too.

Or did I dream it?

No you did not. I found this post by spannera.

Was there more?

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout

Originally posted by emsed1
There is this whole relationship with religious/spiritual leadership/(ownership?), bees (and honey) and alcohol.

And, it is all a bit chicken and egg.

emsed1 is just fishing for someone to decode it for him.

More likely is that he is just following orders from above regarding the potential karmic consequences of interacting with certain special persons.

Originally posted by emsed1
In other news - the "Ark of the Covenant" was supposed to be unveiled this week, but I guess they decided not to do it.

Because they read my post about the missing power source, found out I was right, said 'phooey' and decided to scrub. All they have is a box and some old grit.

[edit on 7/1/2009 by EnlightenUp]

reply to post by EnlightenUp


Ok my memory serves me right, this might of been a more private U2U. So this is a common theme in secret societies that there is some sort of council of Enlightened Ones, I was aware the Great White Brotherhood had a sort of council of Enlightened Ones. I wasn't aware it was public knowledge.

So I guess it could be assumed that this individual could of gathered this information publicly? I guess it caught me off guard to hear it in public film.

Fishing in the dark, looking in the dark, so it seems.