Tamiflu - danger drug - dont take under any circumstances

Out of 24 millions of doses of Tamiflu in Japan, some of which were at ten times the dosage used in the US, there were 54 fatalities. Out of about 1500 influenza cases in Mexico, there were 86 fatalities. Do the math. The mortality rate for the flu in Mexico is about 5.6%, or more than one out of every 20 people who got sick. The mortality rate of Tamiflu was 0.0002%. The mortality rate of using Tamiflu is 1/24000 of the mortality rate of the flu in Mexico.

There is not a single medicine in the world that is completely safe. Even aspirin can kill. According to this article, the fatality rate of consuming aspirin among 50-year-old men is 100 per million, or more than forty times that of Tamiflu.

The mortality rate of ordinary flu is about 5 per million. This number includes deaths from pneumonia, since the two diseases often come together. Even so, the mortality rate is greater than that of Tamiflu.

Tamiflu isn't 100% safe. Nothing is. Even so, it's safer than ordinary flu. The flu in Mexico is about ten thousand times more deadly (5.6% versus 0.0005%).

[edit on 4/28/2009 by chiron613]

Originally posted by chiron613

Out of 24 millions of doses of Tamiflu in Japan, some of which were at ten times the dosage used in the US, there were 54 fatalities. Out of about 1500 influenza cases in Mexico, there were 86 fatalities. Do the math. The mortality rate for the flu in Mexico is about 5.6%, or more than one out of every 20 people who got sick. The mortality rate of Tamiflu was 0.0002%. The mortality rate of using Tamiflu is 1/24000 of the mortality rate of the flu in Mexico.

There is not a single medicine in the world that is completely safe. Even aspirin can kill. According to this article the fatality rate of consuming aspirin among 50-year-old men is 100 per million, or more than forty times that of Tamiflu.

The mortality rate of ordinary flu is about 5 per million. This number includes deaths from pneumonia, since the two diseases often come together. Even so, the mortality rate is greater than that of Tamiflu.

Tamiflu isn't 100% safe. Nothing is. Even so, it's safer than ordinary flu. The flu in Mexico is about ten thousand times more deadly (5.6% versus 0.0005%).

I don't think anyone can argue with the stats here or the interpretation.

But, and a big one, Japan and Mexico are two very different places. Climactic difference aside, the Japanese are scrupulous in matters of hygiene and sanitation. Mexico, a poorer country with a radically different culture and socio-economic make-up - less so.

Having spent a few years in Latin America and visited Mexico, I can tell you the reputation for dangers of illness are well-earned.

I picked up a really severe case of hepatitis, probably from improperly washed vegetables.

Mexico also has an inferior access to medical care and treatment.

I'm sure the numbers are skewed due to these factors.


Mike

Tamiflu has a known side effect of death, seemingly by misadventure, so the actual deaths may be higher than has been linked. I was interested to read that the admitted deaths in Japan ( a country with a great record of care for the health of its' citizens) have been linked. Here in Australia I am not aware of any official deaths from Tamiflu, however over the last few years there has been a number of deaths caused by falls from buildings and I'm wondering if these victims had taken Tamiflu, as it seems to be a new form of death by "misadventure" here, despite the long history amongst the youth of binge drinking.

My suggestion to people is to take Relenza instead of Tamiflu. It was developed before Tamiflu, however while it was under investigation by the American FDA for safety and patenting (and delayed for an excessive time in the process for unknown reasons) Tamiflu was developed and went ahead of Relenza for public consumption. Makes one wonder - a few tweeks here and there from the Relenza research and Tamiflu gets produced. I thought it seemed suspect at the time.

On a brighter note I am unaware of any negative, unwanted side effects from Relenza. I have taken it on two occasions with good effect. The company responsible for its' development is called Biota for those who wish to follow up further.

Originally posted by chiron613
Out of 24 millions of doses of Tamiflu in Japan, some of which were at ten times the dosage used in the US, there were 54 fatalities. Out of about 1500 influenza cases in Mexico, there were 86 fatalities. Do the math. The mortality rate for the flu in Mexico is about 5.6%, or more than one out of every 20 people who got sick. The mortality rate of Tamiflu was 0.0002%. The mortality rate of using Tamiflu is 1/24000 of the mortality rate of the flu in Mexico.

There is not a single medicine in the world that is completely safe. Even aspirin can kill.

whatever the numbers, it's proven that we've made huge progress on viral & bacterial infections even compared to 50 years ago. heck we've doubled the life span from 100-150 years ago. i don't like big pharma because they feed on those in most need but on the other hand state property medical factories are not innovative.

this thread is only fear mongering from distorted opinions. feel free not to take any drugs when you get sick. you may survive. or not. remember "normal" influenza kills about 40000 each year, just as much as traffic accidents in the US. drugs help but nothing is fool proof. life is a deadly disease it's only a matter of how long you make it and how painfully you go out

reply to post by chiron613


And those 1500 cases are the ones that were reported. What about the ones who didnt go to the hospital and survived. I have never gone to the hospital when I have had the flu, no matter how bad it got. Although I would go now. Some say there could have been more then 10000+ cases that went unreported in mexico which would translate into only about a 1.5% mortality rate.

Also on the whole Rumsfeld connection. Who Cares! If you were going to use a service or order a bunch of drugs for the population wouldnt you buy those drugs or get that service performed from someone that you trusted, from someone who knew the inner workings of that drug or company performing that service.

[edit on 28-4-2009 by tide88]

reply to post by Nineteen

Tamiflu has a known side effect of death, seemingly by misadventure, so the actual deaths may be higher than has been linked

Do you know how many drugs have a side effect of death. Watch any commercial for any perscriptions drug. Over half of them list death as a possible side effect. Hell Viagra has killed over 600 people. That is a way higher mortality rate then Tamiflu

[edit on 28-4-2009 by tide88]

Originally posted by tide88
reply to post by Nineteen

 

Tamiflu has a known side effect of death, seemingly by misadventure, so the actual deaths may be higher than has been linked

Do you know how many drugs have a side effect of death. Watch any commercial for any perscriptions drug. Over half of them list death as a possible side effect. Hell Viagra has killed over 600 people. That is a way higher mortality rate then Tamiflu

The number of deaths only becomes significant as a percetage of those who consume something. Peanuts kill thousands, unanticipated adverse drug reactions, food allergies and intolerances kill undocumentable thousands every year.

Deaths can be directly traceable to anything you want to isolate. Someone my have a heart attack induced by something on this thread.

The only way to measure dangers are confirmed percentages of cases.

If 600 people die of something, and it represents 0.0001% of total users, that means it's incredibly safe.

Don't fall victim to hysteria and paranoia induced by reading a large number.
The context is critical in understanding the risk level.


Mike

reply to post by grantbeed


For some reason I am not worried, I have to admit I think the media is now just scaring people and freaking them out, just like Oprah! I will not get a flu shot, and I have never gotten a flu shot my whole life, I can count how many time I have gotten the flu on one hand, I literally get sick with it every 4-5 years. I am the one taking care of the kids and husband but I don't get sick every time, and when I do, it lasts a week, and I am fine. so, unless I absolutely have to I will not do a flu shot.

Originally posted by mmiichael
Don't fall victim to hysteria and paranoia induced by reading a large number.
The context is critical in understanding the risk level.

this is the same as understanding the difference between the interest rate and the monthly payment. most ingnorant people will look at X number of deaths and think OMG this is unsafe i'll die. death is always unfortunate but when it happens to very few people out of a huge pool it's probably as safe as you can get.

STRESS does more to immobilize our immune systems than most of us know. So the more we let ourselves worry incessantly about this, the more we're undermining ourselves. My doctor told me yesterday to increase my Vitamin D to 5000 IU, so I've done that, and aside from not going to the movies or out to a crowded restaurant for a few days, and TURNING OFF THE 24-HR./DAY panic channels until this dies down a bit, I'm all set.

I hope the rest of you are going to stay well, too.

reply to post by jackieps1975


Well i find this very interesting and do belive that all meds are based on herbal medicines to a point only , regular meds being made to addict and or alleviate symptoms but never to completly cure , Where would the profit be for Big Pharma .
PS jackieps1975 wanted to u to u but can not since i never post but read a lot
All of you with natural remedies keep on posting

Originally posted by CynCritter
STRESS does more to immobilize our immune systems than most of us know. So the more we let ourselves worry incessantly about this, the more we're undermining ourselves. My doctor told me yesterday to increase my Vitamin D to 5000 IU, so I've done that, and aside from not going to the movies or out to a crowded restaurant for a few days, and TURNING OFF THE 24-HR./DAY panic channels until this dies down a bit, I'm all set.

I hope the rest of you are going to stay well, too.

Where do you find enough Vitamin D to take that much? Few foods have a lot of vitamin D, and I've never seen a supplement which has a significant amount of Vitamin D in non-tablet form. Please let me know, I'd be interested. It is a very important molecule, and the body can only make it when the body receives a certain type of UV light. For those that do not know, FYI: the body makes vitamin D with cholesterol, using certain wavelengths of UV light from the sun.

Originally posted by Rocker-Mtl
reply to post by jackieps1975

 

Well i find this very interesting and do belive that all meds are based on herbal medicines to a point only , regular meds being made to addict and or alleviate symptoms but never to completly cure , Where would the profit be for Big Pharma .
PS jackieps1975 wanted to u to u but can not since i never post but read a lot
All of you with natural remedies keep on posting

A lot of drugs come from an herbal base: digoxin, morphine, etc.

I don't believe that pharma intentionally makes drugs to be addictive. There is a specific chemistry behind physical dependency, and not all drugs possess that.

As far as curing disease...that's a tough judgment to render. I won't say that you are wrong in many cases, but in a sense very few supplements cure disease either. Instead they give the body something it needs to function better, whether it be in a chronic condition or an acute problem (such as a cold).

The problem I have with supplements is that no government body investigates claims unless enough people complain of extremely bad side effects (ie- ephedrine). This means that the only true guide for people is word of mouth or a handful of books written by 'experts'. These outlets are by no means ideal, and there is currently no push for the FDA to begin investigating the efficacy of over the counter supplements.

The only outlet I might consider reputable is a med school in Washington which specializes in natural medicine, Bastyr College.

From 1977 to 1985 Rumsfeld served as Chief Executive Officer, President, and then Chairman of G. D. Searle & Company, a worldwide pharmaceutical company based in Skokie, Illinois. During his tenure at Searle, Rumsfeld led the company's financial turnaround, thereby earning awards as the Outstanding Chief Executive Officer in the Pharmaceutical Industry from the Wall Street Transcript (1980) and Financial World (1981). In 1985, Searle was sold to Monsanto. Rumsfeld is believed to have earned around $12 million from this sale.[26]

Rumsfeld served as Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of General Instrument Corporation from 1990 to 1993. A leader in broadband transmission, distribution, and access control technologies for cable, satellite and terrestrial broadcasting applications, the company pioneered the development of the first all-digital high-definition television (HDTV) technology. After taking the company public and returning it to profitability, Rumsfeld returned to private business in late 1993.

From January 1997 until being sworn in as the 21st Secretary of Defense in January 2001, Rumsfeld served as Chairman of Gilead Sciences, Inc. Gilead Sciences is the developer of Tamiflu (Oseltamivir), which is used in the treatment of bird flu.[27]As a result, Rumsfeld's holdings in the company grew significantly when avian flu became a subject of popular anxiety during his later term as Secretary of Defense. Following standard practice, Rumsfeld recused himself from any decisions involving Gilead, and he directed the Pentagon's General Counsel issue instructions outlining what he could and could not be involved in if there were an avian flu pandemic and the Pentagon had to respond.

Originally posted by tide88
reply to post by chiron613

 

And those 1500 cases are the ones that were reported. What about the ones who didnt go to the hospital and survived. I have never gone to the hospital when I have had the flu, no matter how bad it got. Although I would go now. Some say there could have been more then 10000+ cases that went unreported in mexico which would translate into only about a 1.5% mortality rate.



[edit on 28-4-2009 by tide88]

Yea, that makes me wonder about all the UNREPORTED cases....How do we know if the people who didnt go to the doctor actually SURVIVED because they didnt get the SHOT?

It seems most people here are mainly concerned about the anti-virals such as, Tamiflu & not so much the actual Swine Virus. (Which I do agree with)

But can someone answer me, the DEATHS in Mexico--do we know if there from the people taking the Anti-viral shot or from the actual virus itself??

Also, since the people in the US havent died (yet), Did they take the Anti-viral Shot, or did they just RECOVER from it on its own?

If we know this answer it will help Explain ALOT.

[edit on 28-4-2009 by Inspiration1911]

Here is a response from one of the Doctors in Mexico.

Mexico flu: Your experiences

I work as a resident doctor in one of the biggest hospitals in Mexico City and sadly, the situation is far from "under control". As a doctor, I realise that the media does not report the truth. Authorities distributed vaccines among all the medical personnel with no results, because two of my partners who worked in this hospital (interns) were killed by this new virus in less than six days even though they were vaccinated as all of us were. The official number of deaths is 20, nevertheless, the true number of victims are more than 200. I understand that we must avoid to panic, but telling the truth it might be better now to prevent and avoid more deaths.

news.bbc.co.uk...

This means that the Doctors who were given the "Anti-viral" Shot died from it anyways. That also means, that the Mexican people probably DIED from taking the Vaccine also...but instead of the Media telling us which people did take the Vaccine & died, they continue to sell it to us.



[edit on 28-4-2009 by Inspiration1911]

Here is a drug-free tip: Prevent the swine flu from getting you in the first place! For those of you who have and/or work around young children, there is a great program out called Germy Wormy Germ Smart Kids. It teaches young children in an innovative, imaginative and cost-effective way the CDC recommendations (and more) to both avoid catching AND to keep from spreading germs. Parents, teachers and daycare providers are raving about it, and it could be used year-round!

www.germywormy.com...

Originally posted by thegreatobserver

Originally posted by grantbeed

isnt it funny how donald rumsfeld has huge shares in tamiflu and this is the governments number one choice for YOUR vaccinations if need be due to a pandemic.

read the following article and be shocked. i would not go near this tamiflu at all. sounds fishy to me.

www.time.com...

Another fear and hype thread! As if there weren't any other out there....

I TOOK TAMIFLU years ago and it helped me a lot! I started to develop a bad flu and took it immediately. The result, I was almost back to normal the next day and totally back to normal within 3 days. No side effects, NOTHING!

But I guess first hand experiences with tamiflu don't count here, do they?

I second your experience, as a family member of mine was saved many years ago in a manner similar to yours. The individual suffered from a Genetic based Respiratory Disease, and if she had not been allocated the Anti-Viral treatment, she would have most likely died from the Influenza infection.

I do believe in certain "Natural" supplements and treatments in regards to different ailments, but when discussing a deadly Viral Infection such as this current Flu, it is wise not to fool around with treatments of an uncertain effective nature. Modern Medicine truly does have its proper place in this World, and Thank God for it.

reply to post by tide88


The point here is that Relenza has had no deaths and is clearly a safer alternative to Tamiflu which was developed under suspicious circumstances.

I used to work in an intensive care ward and yes, I know medications can have side effects. Deaths usually occur when the incorrect dosage is taken or there is an allergic reaction. When deaths occur from reasons such as with Tamiflu, then it seems stupid that it be continued to be given when there is an equally efficacious drug available that is safer.

Originally posted by Inspiration1911
Here is a response from one of the Doctors in Mexico.

Mexico flu: Your experiences

I work as a resident doctor in one of the biggest hospitals in Mexico City and sadly, the situation is far from "under control". As a doctor, I realise that the media does not report the truth. Authorities distributed vaccines among all the medical personnel with no results, because two of my partners who worked in this hospital (interns) were killed by this new virus in less than six days even though they were vaccinated as all of us were. The official number of deaths is 20, nevertheless, the true number of victims are more than 200. I understand that we must avoid to panic, but telling the truth it might be better now to prevent and avoid more deaths.

news.bbc.co.uk...

This means that the Doctors who were given the "Anti-viral" Shot died from it anyways. That also means, that the Mexican people probably DIED from taking the Vaccine also...but instead of the Media telling us which people did take the Vaccine & died, they continue to sell it to us.



[edit on 28-4-2009 by Inspiration1911]

I need to correct you on one seemingly misconstrued idea as of recent, and that has to do with the fact that a "Vaccine" is NOT the same thing as an "Anti-Viral" Pharmaceutical Drug/Treatment.

If the Physicians and Medical Personnel in Mexico City died as a result of the ineffectiveness of the current Influenza Vaccine, then that is an obvious factor, seeing as the current Vaccine does NOT cover the latest Flu strain.

Vaccines deliver a minute amount of a Virus to the human body, thus allowing for the natural Antibody system to prepare its own Defense and Attack system in response.

Anti-Virals on the other hand attack the replication of a Virus directly, and thus prevent it from overwhelming the ill-prepared Antibody system within the host's body.

Vaccines condition the Human Immune System Response, whereas the Anti-Virals suppress the Virus in question, which in turn allows for an unconditioned Human Immune System to play catch-up, and to typically take control from there on out.

Vaccines are always administered in Standardized Dosages, whereas Anti-Viral Dosing depends upon the original strength of the Individual's Immune System, and the severity of the attacking Virus.