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Koran Mentions Worm Holes Through Which Aliens Will Invade Earth!
page: 7share:
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
if i recall, wasn't there a massive drought in the area at one point, and they took to drinking blood because it was literally the only ingestible liquid to be found? i'm uncertain as to the antiquity of that data, but i'm guessing it wasn't the only time in history where it transpired during drought conditions in other parts of the world.
as far as the ecumenism of the holy roman empire. the problem is, at least part of what they were on about was actually true. for example, the septuagint translation of the biblical texts indicate there was a divine council and that council turns out to be the same divine council of the ugaritic texts, the sumerian texts, the egyptian texts, even the grecian and roman pagan texts.
edit to add: even the norse texts!
[edit on 13-4-2009 by undo]
if i recall, wasn't there a massive drought in the area at one point, and they took to drinking blood because it was literally the only ingestible liquid to be found? i'm uncertain as to the antiquity of that data, but i'm guessing it wasn't the only time in history where it transpired during drought conditions in other parts of the world.
as far as the ecumenism of the holy roman empire. the problem is, at least part of what they were on about was actually true. for example, the septuagint translation of the biblical texts indicate there was a divine council and that council turns out to be the same divine council of the ugaritic texts, the sumerian texts, the egyptian texts, even the grecian and roman pagan texts.
edit to add: even the norse texts!
[edit on 13-4-2009 by undo]
where the papacy apparently dropped the ball was the inclusion of idol statuary, changes to the hebrew calendar (sabbath change, for example) and so
on. it's one thing to note the similarities and quite another to adopt their traditions which were clearly not an accepted part of the worship of
the hebrew god, yahweh (or his divine offspring, yeshua).
you might find this page verrry interesting
THE HEAVENLY DIVINE COUNCIL
www.herealittletherealittle.net...
and an excellent .pdf file
THE DIVINE COUNCIL
www.thedivinecouncil.com...
now if you read those you might be aware that this was in essence a case of separating these people from those people or those people, etc, based on what member of the council was presiding over the people in question. and in case of yahweh worship, he insisted the people set themselves apart by not adopting the traditions of the other nations, which included not making idols or fetishes, as they can "neither see or talk" (which is not so much disavowing the existence of the other members of the council. as it was a plea to cerebral worship, focus on the unseen, not the seen or something like that)
you might find this page verrry interesting
THE HEAVENLY DIVINE COUNCIL
www.herealittletherealittle.net...
and an excellent .pdf file
THE DIVINE COUNCIL
www.thedivinecouncil.com...
now if you read those you might be aware that this was in essence a case of separating these people from those people or those people, etc, based on what member of the council was presiding over the people in question. and in case of yahweh worship, he insisted the people set themselves apart by not adopting the traditions of the other nations, which included not making idols or fetishes, as they can "neither see or talk" (which is not so much disavowing the existence of the other members of the council. as it was a plea to cerebral worship, focus on the unseen, not the seen or something like that)
Indeed undo.
I see we are of similar mind and wavelength regards that timeframe.
Whatever differences may exist, may be insignificant, sufficed to say, a path was subverted to what emerged.
Goddess guide your path.
---
Maybe there's hidden elements to the said Koran as there are to the bible.
As indicative as it is, it is, Islam not something i could not nor would qualify on, outside of the crusades.
Is there anything those of Islam would proffer to any such consequence?
Is there indication there should be more but somehow written out?
But can be analysed and perceived.
Pardon my ignorance to Islam.
Paxus.
[edit on 13-4-2009 by DeltaPan]
I see we are of similar mind and wavelength regards that timeframe.
Whatever differences may exist, may be insignificant, sufficed to say, a path was subverted to what emerged.
Goddess guide your path.
---
Maybe there's hidden elements to the said Koran as there are to the bible.
As indicative as it is, it is, Islam not something i could not nor would qualify on, outside of the crusades.
Is there anything those of Islam would proffer to any such consequence?
Is there indication there should be more but somehow written out?
But can be analysed and perceived.
Pardon my ignorance to Islam.
Paxus.
[edit on 13-4-2009 by DeltaPan]
reply to post by DeltaPan
well then you might find this even more interesting. i was trying to determine whether this chart was accurate or not and if the text included by the author (not on the chart) had any basis in reality
www.balaams-ass.com...
now if you read the sumerian-akkadian texts, the first thing that becomes extremely clear is that the EL of the bible is the ENLIL of the sumerian texts, yet the author of the page and chart, claims that AL'LAH is a pagan god BECAUSE he is ENLIL. he says the reason is, that EL never derived from IL. of course, this turns out to be totally wrong!
this is the actual etymology:
ENLIL
LIL
IL
EL
AL
all of the god names derive from the same root ENLIL. En means LORD and LIL means sky/heaven, which eventually ends up as the word to identify divine beings in mesopotamia, et. al. gods. so Enlil was the LORD GOD OF HEAVEN/SKY. By the time of Babel (BAB-ILU), the LIL word had already been transmuted to apply to any divinity. (note the EL in Babel and the ILU in BAB-ILU).
[edit on 13-4-2009 by undo]
well then you might find this even more interesting. i was trying to determine whether this chart was accurate or not and if the text included by the author (not on the chart) had any basis in reality
www.balaams-ass.com...
now if you read the sumerian-akkadian texts, the first thing that becomes extremely clear is that the EL of the bible is the ENLIL of the sumerian texts, yet the author of the page and chart, claims that AL'LAH is a pagan god BECAUSE he is ENLIL. he says the reason is, that EL never derived from IL. of course, this turns out to be totally wrong!
this is the actual etymology:
ENLIL
LIL
IL
EL
AL
all of the god names derive from the same root ENLIL. En means LORD and LIL means sky/heaven, which eventually ends up as the word to identify divine beings in mesopotamia, et. al. gods. so Enlil was the LORD GOD OF HEAVEN/SKY. By the time of Babel (BAB-ILU), the LIL word had already been transmuted to apply to any divinity. (note the EL in Babel and the ILU in BAB-ILU).
[edit on 13-4-2009 by undo]
addendum to above post for any scholars in the reading audience....
to verify this, i took it a step further and did research on B'EL AND BA'AL. i was familar with a scholar of the ancient languages of mesopotamia so i sent him the question "how is b'el also ba'al if el and al are not the same?" this was the response
when i pointed out that b'el was a sun god and ba'al was a storm god and asked how they could be the same, he responded:
after that, i knew the problem was a simple matter of the LIL word becoming a generic, one size fits all, word to define members of the divine council.
to verify this, i took it a step further and did research on B'EL AND BA'AL. i was familar with a scholar of the ancient languages of mesopotamia so i sent him the question "how is b'el also ba'al if el and al are not the same?" this was the response
Bel is Baal because (1) Baal was rendered into Greek as Bel (the "e" being the long "e" - the "eta" in Greek - as opposed to the short "e" the epsilon); and (2) When the Greek spelling was transliterated into English (when various texts from the ancient world got translated), the transliteration was "Bel" since English transliteration doesn't distinguish between the short and long "e" of Greek. A scholar would use diacritical marks to distinguish them, but translations of these texts were meant for the wider English reading audience, who could care less about such precision (and it was easier to typeset too).
when i pointed out that b'el was a sun god and ba'al was a storm god and asked how they could be the same, he responded:
Depends what you're talking about - there is the "Baal/Bel" of transliteration, the fact that "Baal" simply means "lord" (which can be and was appended to various deities and sub-deities), and then there is the "Baal/Bel" of various pantheons - and even local pantheons vs. the wider national pantheons.
after that, i knew the problem was a simple matter of the LIL word becoming a generic, one size fits all, word to define members of the divine council.
Some people will hang material which is based on what is true but altered because they have learned something but got something fundemental very
wrong, progress from that end and assert and postulate without standing back and proofreading without subjective bias, or get others to proofread.
Some hang their own misinformation, etc, for whatever reason or effect.
Paxus.
---
Regards languages.
Indeed, 'tis a common fault in academics, that they assume others have a certain level of base understanding, are thinking on the same level and subtle differences in the written, or to the oral, is not being semantic but actually pedantic detail is a paramount importance when articulating such bodies of knowledge and to deviate base understandings through other lingual interpretations for reiteration, either orally or textually , will lead to error. [They use a different syntax assuming another listening or reading will somehow know the difference.]
Absolutely.
But a common professor type phenomenon.
And has been aforementioned earlier in the thread, is how things lose essence in translation, apart from anything else.
[Pardon the off topic. ]
[edit on 13-4-2009 by DeltaPan]
Some hang their own misinformation, etc, for whatever reason or effect.
Paxus.
---
Regards languages.
Indeed, 'tis a common fault in academics, that they assume others have a certain level of base understanding, are thinking on the same level and subtle differences in the written, or to the oral, is not being semantic but actually pedantic detail is a paramount importance when articulating such bodies of knowledge and to deviate base understandings through other lingual interpretations for reiteration, either orally or textually , will lead to error. [They use a different syntax assuming another listening or reading will somehow know the difference.]
Absolutely.
But a common professor type phenomenon.
And has been aforementioned earlier in the thread, is how things lose essence in translation, apart from anything else.
[Pardon the off topic. ]
[edit on 13-4-2009 by DeltaPan]
reply to post by DeltaPan
could you translate what you mean? cause if i'm not mistaken it sounds like you agree with parts of it and disagree with other parts.
could you translate what you mean? cause if i'm not mistaken it sounds like you agree with parts of it and disagree with other parts.
reply to post by DeltaPan
this isn't off topic, really, because you have to establish who the players are and their back history, if you're going to accurately pinpoint the etymology of words brought into relevance, a couple thousand years later
this isn't off topic, really, because you have to establish who the players are and their back history, if you're going to accurately pinpoint the etymology of words brought into relevance, a couple thousand years later
Originally posted by undo
reply to post by DeltaPan
this isn't off topic, really, because you have to establish who the players are and their back history, if you're going to accurately pinpoint the etymology of words brought into relevance, a couple thousand years later
I disagree there, sorry, a tangent into a microcosm of such has no bearing on the essence of topic really.
We are talking extraterrestrials, the Koran and similarities in other religions was accepted sub topic.
This is a vector to line analysis microcosm with no useful relevance to topic.
I like you so please take no offence.
Paxus.
[edit on 13-4-2009 by DeltaPan]
reply to post by DeltaPan
well see, this idea of wormholes and stargates derives from ancient mesopotamia, so the god names are EXTREMELY important. (at least, that's my theory).
and i wasn't offended, i was simply asking
well see, this idea of wormholes and stargates derives from ancient mesopotamia, so the god names are EXTREMELY important. (at least, that's my theory).
and i wasn't offended, i was simply asking
reply to post by mikesingh
Or, I could just tell you right now how to travel faster than light independently from wormholes:
make a hollow cylinder that is negatively charged, and place within it a solid cylinder that is smaller, but also negatively charged. The smaller will levitate within the larger. They should be at a 2:1 ratio of height to radius, respectively. Fill the space in between the two with anti-protons. Compress them, highly. Then freeze them to almost absolute 0. As close as you can come to it, enough to collapse this mass into a hollow black hole. A black hole which is in the space between the two cylinders. Now, make a row of these devices. Have each one spin, but the one next spin oppositely. a row of 10 or so should do. Now, make another row of 10, spinning in opposite direction to their symmetrical counterparts, and place it at enough distance to allow some sort of craft between the two rows. Like this:
\/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\
CRAFT
/\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/
What you have here is what I call a gravity hill. Around the craft is a ring of gravity, so intense that time stops at this point. Inside it, according to Newton's shell theorem, gravity is counteracted to gravity at the opposite side, creating 0 gravity for the craft within. The thing is, however, if you move the craft, it moves almost instantaneously to the outside observer. This is because, according to science, time does not exist in a black hole. It is paused, because the gravity slows time to the point that is ceases to exist. Yet, because 0 gravity exists inside this ring of gravity, time still occurs. You know how we see gravity as an indentation in the space time plane? well this is a hill across the space time plane. If you move, it is moving so that information cannot reach the craft, so that photons cannot ever touch it from the outside, so that information that says it cannot exceed light never reaches it. Well, if time doesn't exist to allow that information to reach it, there is no speed limit. The spinning cylinders also make it so that time goes faster inside the ring, but it seems to go the same rate as outside the ring to the outside observer. Because of this, you move extremely fast.
Tada! that's how you travel faster than light. You could also probably use lasers to alter space time the same way, so you wouldn't need all that mass.
Technically, when you re-heat the mass, it stops being a black hole and so returns to normalcy, allowing you to escape. Or you could just blow it up, because its matter and anti-matter.
Or, I could just tell you right now how to travel faster than light independently from wormholes:
make a hollow cylinder that is negatively charged, and place within it a solid cylinder that is smaller, but also negatively charged. The smaller will levitate within the larger. They should be at a 2:1 ratio of height to radius, respectively. Fill the space in between the two with anti-protons. Compress them, highly. Then freeze them to almost absolute 0. As close as you can come to it, enough to collapse this mass into a hollow black hole. A black hole which is in the space between the two cylinders. Now, make a row of these devices. Have each one spin, but the one next spin oppositely. a row of 10 or so should do. Now, make another row of 10, spinning in opposite direction to their symmetrical counterparts, and place it at enough distance to allow some sort of craft between the two rows. Like this:
\/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\
CRAFT
/\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/
What you have here is what I call a gravity hill. Around the craft is a ring of gravity, so intense that time stops at this point. Inside it, according to Newton's shell theorem, gravity is counteracted to gravity at the opposite side, creating 0 gravity for the craft within. The thing is, however, if you move the craft, it moves almost instantaneously to the outside observer. This is because, according to science, time does not exist in a black hole. It is paused, because the gravity slows time to the point that is ceases to exist. Yet, because 0 gravity exists inside this ring of gravity, time still occurs. You know how we see gravity as an indentation in the space time plane? well this is a hill across the space time plane. If you move, it is moving so that information cannot reach the craft, so that photons cannot ever touch it from the outside, so that information that says it cannot exceed light never reaches it. Well, if time doesn't exist to allow that information to reach it, there is no speed limit. The spinning cylinders also make it so that time goes faster inside the ring, but it seems to go the same rate as outside the ring to the outside observer. Because of this, you move extremely fast.
Tada! that's how you travel faster than light. You could also probably use lasers to alter space time the same way, so you wouldn't need all that mass.
Technically, when you re-heat the mass, it stops being a black hole and so returns to normalcy, allowing you to escape. Or you could just blow it up, because its matter and anti-matter.
Originally posted by undo
reply to post by DeltaPan
well see, this idea of wormholes and stargates derives from ancient mesopotamia, so the god names are EXTREMELY important. (at least, that's my theory).
and i wasn't offended, i was simply asking
In that then, i am agreed, the inception of these indications are indeed earlier and etymologies lay in Babylonian and Sumerian origin, ancient Egyptian, as much as Toltec etc, not least, ancient Celt, Norse.
That's exactly so in my opinion also, as too with similarities of same in other ancient civilisations across Terra in the same timeframe.
Paxus.
[edit on 13-4-2009 by DeltaPan]
Originally posted by Gorman91
Tada! that's how you travel faster than light. You could also probably use lasers to alter space time the same way, so you wouldn't need all that mass.
This should be of much interest to yourself and others.
David Serada is spot on as far as craft transport technologies using light is concerned, in my opinion, his earlier stuff may still be avalable on the Conspiracy Central tracker, you'll have to register.
Not only one race of extraterrestrials, so is simply one method which i think is likely common but of course other propulsion/transport technologies are used.
From Here To Andromeda...
File one:
thepiratebay.org...[DVD-1][XviD]_720p_x_404_HDV
File two.
thepiratebay.org...[DVD-2][XviD]_720p_x_404_HDV
[edit on 13-4-2009 by DeltaPan]
Great thread. Here's what I've found in my copy, which is an english translation. This numbered list was brought up by someone earlier, and
quickly brushed aside as 'apologetic.' I thought I would list these things so that others can read on it if they wished.
From:"Quran The Final Testament" revised edition III. Translated by Rashad Khalifa, Ph.D. Published by Universal Unity
1. The Earth is egg-shaped (39:5,79:30)
2. The Earth is moving constantly (27:88)
3. The sun is a source of light, while the moon reflects it (10:5,25:61,71:16)
4. The Proportion of oxygen declines as we climb towards the sky(6:125)
5. The "Big Bang" theory (21:30)
6. The "Expansion of the Universe" theory (51:47)
7. The universe started as a gaseous mass (41:11)
8. Evolution (21:30,24:45,32:7-9,18:37,15:28-29,7:11,71:13-14)
9. The man's genetic contribution decides the sex of the child (53:45-46)
This books explanation on Jinn:
"The other half of the guilty creatures, those who leaned closer to Satan's point of view and exhibited the biggest egos, became classified as jinns. It was God's plan to assign one jinn to every human being from birth to death. The jinn companion represents Satan and constantly promotes his point of view(50:23, 27)"
From the discussions I've had with a friend of mine who practices Islam(perhaps his own version of it), the main book is the Quran, and he believes it is the only islamic book that matters(he said something about there being others, and that's what all the fighting is about). He also states that the main belief of Islam is "submission to God."
As to the OP, I think it is all about perspective.
1 and 1 is 2... or is it 11?
EDIT: Just putting the info out there for all to see and draw their own conclusions. I, for one, thought it was interesting, at least.
[edit on 13-4-2009 by dragonking76]
From:"Quran The Final Testament" revised edition III. Translated by Rashad Khalifa, Ph.D. Published by Universal Unity
1. The Earth is egg-shaped (39:5,79:30)
2. The Earth is moving constantly (27:88)
3. The sun is a source of light, while the moon reflects it (10:5,25:61,71:16)
4. The Proportion of oxygen declines as we climb towards the sky(6:125)
5. The "Big Bang" theory (21:30)
6. The "Expansion of the Universe" theory (51:47)
7. The universe started as a gaseous mass (41:11)
8. Evolution (21:30,24:45,32:7-9,18:37,15:28-29,7:11,71:13-14)
9. The man's genetic contribution decides the sex of the child (53:45-46)
This books explanation on Jinn:
"The other half of the guilty creatures, those who leaned closer to Satan's point of view and exhibited the biggest egos, became classified as jinns. It was God's plan to assign one jinn to every human being from birth to death. The jinn companion represents Satan and constantly promotes his point of view(50:23, 27)"
From the discussions I've had with a friend of mine who practices Islam(perhaps his own version of it), the main book is the Quran, and he believes it is the only islamic book that matters(he said something about there being others, and that's what all the fighting is about). He also states that the main belief of Islam is "submission to God."
As to the OP, I think it is all about perspective.
1 and 1 is 2... or is it 11?
EDIT: Just putting the info out there for all to see and draw their own conclusions. I, for one, thought it was interesting, at least.
[edit on 13-4-2009 by dragonking76]
reply to post by mikesingh
Greetings,
Perhaps you should have read the Quran first to find out what it says before posting this. It doesn't really seem to hold water. Even with my limited knowledge that was pretty obvious.
But, what an interesting angle. The sura (chapter), that mentions Yuj and Majuj - Gog and Magog (Sura Al Kaaf) is certainly very interesting and important.
Sura Al Kaaf (The Cave) deals with deals with an incident of Time Travel! It explains that some young men who were righteous took refuge in a cave from the people of their city who worshiped idols. Allah caused them and their dog to fall asleep for 300 - 309 years. When they ventured out to see what the situation was, not knowing, but thinking that they had only been asleep for perhaps a part of a day,the people of the city (some 300 years later) discovered their case, and Allah made them a sign (Ayah) to mankind.
Then the story of the Prophet Moses and Al Khader - Who was a knowledgeable servant of Allah that had knowledge that Moses didn't possess, so Moses journeyed with him to learn.
But the story of Dhul Qarnayn is a very interesting one. Dhul Qarnayn (who some wrongly thought was Alexander the Great), The Quran explains:
(83) Verily We established his power on earth, and We gave him the ways and the means to all ends.
So, he was of the righteous with knowledge and means. The Quran says:
(92) Until, when he reached (a tract) between two mountains, he found, beneath them a people who scarcely understood a word. (93) They said: "O Dhu al Qarnayn! the Gog and Magog do great mischief on earth: shall we then render thee tribute in order that thou mightest erect a barrier between us and them?" (94) He said: "(The power) in which my Lord has established me is better (than tribute): help me therefore with strength (and labour): I will erect a strong barrier between you and them: (95) "Bring me blocks of iron." At length when he had filled up the space between the two steep mountain― sides, he said "Blow (with your bellows)." Then when he had made it (red) as fire he said: "Bring me, that I may pour over it molten copper." (96) Thus were they made powerless to scale it or to dig through it. (97) He said: "This is a mercy from my Lord: but when the promise of my Lord comes to pass, He will make it into dust; and the promise of My Lord is true." (98) On that day We shall leave them to surge like waves on one another; the trumpet will be blown, and We shall collect them all together.
The thing about the Quran is, Allah challenges you to produce something similar to it, if you can, you can disprove it. Simple really, where would the Muslims be without their Holy Book?
So there you have it, If I have made any mistake, it is from myself and not from Allah or His book.
Some mention the Hindu scriptures and the acturate knowledge of the universe contained therein, but do they also know that The Prophet Muhammad is also prophesized in the Hindu Veda's, just as in the Christian scriptures?
Actually as a Muslim, there is much that Islam teaches us that we perhaps take for granted.
1) There are many worlds - The first line of the Quran reads - All praise is due to Allah, Lord of the Worlds (Plural not singular).
2) When the sun rises in the opposite direction (read pollar shift), then if you didn't believe before this, your belief will not be accepted.
3) The day of judgement will not happen until the desert arabs compete with one another in building taller and taller buildings.
* * *
When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes. For falsehood by it very nature is bound to perish.
Greetings,
Perhaps you should have read the Quran first to find out what it says before posting this. It doesn't really seem to hold water. Even with my limited knowledge that was pretty obvious.
But, what an interesting angle. The sura (chapter), that mentions Yuj and Majuj - Gog and Magog (Sura Al Kaaf) is certainly very interesting and important.
Sura Al Kaaf (The Cave) deals with deals with an incident of Time Travel! It explains that some young men who were righteous took refuge in a cave from the people of their city who worshiped idols. Allah caused them and their dog to fall asleep for 300 - 309 years. When they ventured out to see what the situation was, not knowing, but thinking that they had only been asleep for perhaps a part of a day,the people of the city (some 300 years later) discovered their case, and Allah made them a sign (Ayah) to mankind.
Then the story of the Prophet Moses and Al Khader - Who was a knowledgeable servant of Allah that had knowledge that Moses didn't possess, so Moses journeyed with him to learn.
But the story of Dhul Qarnayn is a very interesting one. Dhul Qarnayn (who some wrongly thought was Alexander the Great), The Quran explains:
(83) Verily We established his power on earth, and We gave him the ways and the means to all ends.
So, he was of the righteous with knowledge and means. The Quran says:
(92) Until, when he reached (a tract) between two mountains, he found, beneath them a people who scarcely understood a word. (93) They said: "O Dhu al Qarnayn! the Gog and Magog do great mischief on earth: shall we then render thee tribute in order that thou mightest erect a barrier between us and them?" (94) He said: "(The power) in which my Lord has established me is better (than tribute): help me therefore with strength (and labour): I will erect a strong barrier between you and them: (95) "Bring me blocks of iron." At length when he had filled up the space between the two steep mountain― sides, he said "Blow (with your bellows)." Then when he had made it (red) as fire he said: "Bring me, that I may pour over it molten copper." (96) Thus were they made powerless to scale it or to dig through it. (97) He said: "This is a mercy from my Lord: but when the promise of my Lord comes to pass, He will make it into dust; and the promise of My Lord is true." (98) On that day We shall leave them to surge like waves on one another; the trumpet will be blown, and We shall collect them all together.
The thing about the Quran is, Allah challenges you to produce something similar to it, if you can, you can disprove it. Simple really, where would the Muslims be without their Holy Book?
So there you have it, If I have made any mistake, it is from myself and not from Allah or His book.
Some mention the Hindu scriptures and the acturate knowledge of the universe contained therein, but do they also know that The Prophet Muhammad is also prophesized in the Hindu Veda's, just as in the Christian scriptures?
Actually as a Muslim, there is much that Islam teaches us that we perhaps take for granted.
1) There are many worlds - The first line of the Quran reads - All praise is due to Allah, Lord of the Worlds (Plural not singular).
2) When the sun rises in the opposite direction (read pollar shift), then if you didn't believe before this, your belief will not be accepted.
3) The day of judgement will not happen until the desert arabs compete with one another in building taller and taller buildings.
* * *
When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes. For falsehood by it very nature is bound to perish.
Originally posted by dragonking76
Great thread. Here's what I've found in my copy, which is an english translation. This numbered list was brought up by someone earlier, and quickly brushed aside as 'apologetic.' I thought I would list these things so that others can read on it if they wished.
From:"Quran The Final Testament" revised edition III. Translated by Rashad Khalifa, Ph.D. Published by Universal Unity
1. The Earth is egg-shaped (39:5,79:30)
2. The Earth is moving constantly (27:88)
3. The sun is a source of light, while the moon reflects it (10:5,25:61,71:16)
4. The Proportion of oxygen declines as we climb towards the sky(6:125)
5. The "Big Bang" theory (21:30)
6. The "Expansion of the Universe" theory (51:47)
7. The universe started as a gaseous mass (41:11)
8. Evolution (21:30,24:45,32:7-9,18:37,15:28-29,7:11,71:13-14)
9. The man's genetic contribution decides the sex of the child (53:45-46)
I am not the kind to attack somebodies religion, but when somebody makes a false claim about something, I cannot help myself but debunk it. These are the verses the author is claiming have this information:
1. He hath created the heavens and the earth with truth. He maketh night to succeed day, and He maketh day to succeed night, and He constraineth the sun and the moon to give service, each running on for an appointed term. Is not He the Mighty, the Forgiver? (5) He created you from one being, then from that (being) He made its mate; and He hath provided for you of cattle eight kinds. He created you in the wombs of your mothers, creation after creation, in a threefold gloom. Such is Allah, your Lord. His is the Sovereignty. There is no God save Him. How then are ye turned away?
And after that He spread the earth, (30)
This reflects the scientific understanding of the time of flat earth and geocentrism. The earth has not been spread. The sun does move around the earth, nor the sun and the earth stop running, rather the sun and the moon disappear from sight because earth rotating on its axis.
2. And thou seest the hills thou deemest solid flying with the flight of clouds: the doing of Allah Who perfecteth all things. Lo! He is Informed of what ye do. (88)
This says nothing about that planet Earth is moving. There are plenty of passages that say, "The earth is fixed in place, "the earth is held in place by pegs", "the earth is as flat as a bed and held down by pegs" Again consistent with geocentricism that characterized that period and place.
5. Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?
The author gets "big bang" from "the heavens and earth were parted" this pretty much sums up how scientific and objective these apologists are
I believe I don't have to deal with the rest now that I've debunked the main ones. I cannot of course debunk the spiritual teachings of the Quran because they are unfalsifiable, but sorry, when it comes to its scientific statements they are bunk. It clearly is authored by somebody who lacks even very basic knowledge of science, but that is to be expected from the time period and place.
[edit on 13-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]
reply to post by mikesingh
Well, since the overwhelming response to my previous posts in this thread here and here were so encouraging, I would offer the following citation from a 'pretty old' religious text -
So, did the 'Emanated Incarnation' use a 'wormhole' to travel beyond as many universes as there are 'grains of sand in 42 Ganges rivers?'
Where a 'universe' is generally regarded as a 'magic show' 'created by the Buddha for the development of living beings,' hence the term 'buddha-field' is interchangeable with the term 'universe.'
Anyway, it's interesting to consider the subtlety of the way these 'magnitudes' are expressed.
The grains of sand in the Ganges would be considered in today's mathematical parlance as 'uncountably finite.' We know there is a 'finite' number of grains, but in 42 Ganges rivers, or even a single Ganges, the number is 'uncountable' for reasons that modern day computer scientists refer to as 'computability.'
There just isn't enough 'resources' availabe in the entire universe to 'solve the problem.'
This, IMHO, is a very sophisticated notion for a 'primitive' people ...
I always ask myself the question -
Therefore, it's more prudent to have an open mind on the real meanings hidden in many diverse religious texts that have indicated the same modern scientific concepts.
Well, since the overwhelming response to my previous posts in this thread here and here were so encouraging, I would offer the following citation from a 'pretty old' religious text -
The Feast Brought by the Emanated Incarnation
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7f5ad92de5f7.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0d5977d430c1.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/73e06b91e360.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6b339af43d3e.jpg[/atsimg]
Source : Kenyon College
So, did the 'Emanated Incarnation' use a 'wormhole' to travel beyond as many universes as there are 'grains of sand in 42 Ganges rivers?'
Where a 'universe' is generally regarded as a 'magic show' 'created by the Buddha for the development of living beings,' hence the term 'buddha-field' is interchangeable with the term 'universe.'
Anyway, it's interesting to consider the subtlety of the way these 'magnitudes' are expressed.
as many [universes] as there are sands in forty-two Ganges rivers
The grains of sand in the Ganges would be considered in today's mathematical parlance as 'uncountably finite.' We know there is a 'finite' number of grains, but in 42 Ganges rivers, or even a single Ganges, the number is 'uncountable' for reasons that modern day computer scientists refer to as 'computability.'
There just isn't enough 'resources' availabe in the entire universe to 'solve the problem.'
This, IMHO, is a very sophisticated notion for a 'primitive' people ...
I always ask myself the question -
Did we have 'a little help' in 'concieving' of these 'very sophisticated' ideas ?
Originally posted by dragonking76
1. The Earth is egg-shaped (39:5,79:30)
2. The Earth is moving constantly (27:88)
3. The sun is a source of light, while the moon reflects it (10:5,25:61,71:16)
4. The Proportion of oxygen declines as we climb towards the sky(6:125)
5. The "Big Bang" theory (21:30)
6. The "Expansion of the Universe" theory (51:47)
7. The universe started as a gaseous mass (41:11)
8. Evolution (21:30,24:45,32:7-9,18:37,15:28-29,7:11,71:13-14)
9. The man's genetic contribution decides the sex of the child (53:45-46)
hmmm.
39:5 just says that night and day succeed each other and the moon and sun serve us. It also says they are constrained, which they are not. They move further away from the Earth. "and He constraineth the sun and the moon to give service"
79:30
Earth is egg shaped though, but it wasn't accepted as saying the earth was a sphere until that was discovered, as well as the fact the Muslims preserved ancient Greek texts from the Catholic Church, allowing them to read the greek writings about it.
27:88 speaks about the end of the Earth, I think. And how it will basically be destroyed. Almost saying that it will move then, not now.
It just says the moon is a light, and the sun a lamp. I guess they mean the moon is not as bright as the lamp, which is true, but that's seen from observation.
6:125 I really don't see that much about oxygen, other than you will die if you go to space maybe. But it's written as if those who go to space don;t believe in Allah. That's almost telling people to sit their behinds down and not leave. why?
21:30 just talks about how people claim to be God on Earth, but that God long since separated heaven and Earth and made it impossible to be God on Earth. This is snot the big bang, it is simply saying that you shouldn't pretend to be God when you are not.
51:47 Just talking about the infinity of heaven. Not space. Though space is infinite. Still, they are talking about God's realm, which is, like God, infinite.
41:11 But the universe was originally energy, not gas. And not only that, but this section speaks of how the Earth formed. On that basis, it is correct. The Earth formed from as, but not the universe. There is nothing here about the universe or the origins of it. Just how the Earth formed, which is in accordance to science.
Yes it claims that all things came from water. But that's because, like all religions of the desert, water = life. Also, technically life began in mud. Chemical mud, not like the mud out when its raining. Life began ans chemical chains in mud that found chemical bubble bi-lipids. Not water.
Not about evolution though. There's nothing here about life changing from stresses of the environment. It simply says man was made of clay. Which to begin with, he was not. Man was made from other animals, which came from cells, made from clay. There's creationism here, not evolution.
53:45 simply speaks of man's seed being a fluid and what creates pregnancy, which is easily observable to anyone. Nothing about sexes as far as I can tell. Maybe those names stand for gender.
Sorry, the Koran, like all religious texts, is simply a statement of beliefs. Interpreted to the extreme, you can make anything sound like another thing, but no, you are wrong. There's nothing special here.
reply to post by undo
god..im sorry you're right...bear with me i am running a quite high fever past couple days...i meant to say that, not unlike some apostates of Christianity (jimmy swaggert et al) Muhammad "used" Allah's/Word history to make his own.
please excuse me
I will post a dissertation on Islam soon as i'm able that will cast some doubt upon that belief system & open some eyes to its real message.
Till then....
god..im sorry you're right...bear with me i am running a quite high fever past couple days...i meant to say that, not unlike some apostates of Christianity (jimmy swaggert et al) Muhammad "used" Allah's/Word history to make his own.
please excuse me
I will post a dissertation on Islam soon as i'm able that will cast some doubt upon that belief system & open some eyes to its real message.
Till then....
reply to post by DeltaPan
I don't know much about David Sereda (not Serada), but I don't like the way he talks.
I know that is just a subjective opinion, but I am usually right on this type of thing.
PS: check your U2Us, please.
I don't know much about David Sereda (not Serada), but I don't like the way he talks.
I know that is just a subjective opinion, but I am usually right on this type of thing.
PS: check your U2Us, please.
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