ABC Special to Dismiss Idea of Using Guns for Self Defense?

Originally posted by centurion1211
reply to post by GenRadek

 

OK. Time to post the map again. This is the map that shows that most mass shootings occur in the so-called gun free zones. Thinking people of course realize that "gun free zone" means that only legal, law abiding citizens do not have guns there. Another and better description of such places would be "target rich environment".

map

Just needed to be stated again!
So True.

Just because you have a gun does not mean you will protect yourself. By having a gun means you have a opportunity to protect yourself. "America is land of opportunity."

Originally posted by TheOracle
Now it doesn't matter that the police is here for protection and that meat can be found in the supermarket, americans use guns for fun (at shooting range) and most worryingly as a "status" symbol and confidence booster.

Sadly, you haven't read or paid attention to anything previously written here or elsewhere on this subject before forming your (flawed) opinion. The police are not here for your protection. Really take a look around and you will see that the police only investigate crimes after they happen, they don't "protect" you at all. And for all too many, the cost of bullets is less than the cost of meat at the grocery store.

When too many people have this fear/hate and too many available guns, then gun criminality rises sky high, violence only brings more violence. People buy more weapons and criminals get more of those guns, from the unrest brought after each shooting on the news.

Ban guns and only criminals will have guns, or they will just move on to another weapon of choice. Check out the UK for examples of this.

And just the idea of a automatic firearm ban gets people rushing for guns and ammo. No matter how much rationale is put forward, americans will never give up their firearms and we should leave it as it is and let the problem fix itself.

No real "rationale" has been put forward, so here I have to agree with you. Leave us alone on this issue.

The answer is yes. ABC, the All Barack's Children network, is in the far leftist bag. The administration has not addressed the gun issue yet but it is coming. There will be a good number more massacres in the next few weeks; I'm thinking these are mind control triggered and not simply the result of the economic downturn or what ever weak excuse is written on the gunman's suicide note. Why so many, and why now?

There are always screw-ups that let kids touch what they should not touch. The last time a 7 year old jumped into the driver's seat and rolled over the neighborhood there was not a call for banning cars. There is no "dumbass" vaccine. We should take a page out of Switzerland's book and arm everyone. The possibility of getting shot before you accomplish your mission or heart's desire is always a deterrent in my opinion. And if it wasn't guns it would be some other weapon. Just the opinion of a non-gun owner.

Originally posted by MrAnonUK

And please, no our 'constitution' this, our 'constitution' that, doesn't change anything but show a nations inability to progress past popular interests for the greater good of man. It shows adherence to popular draconian writings, many of which need great revision, but many a man cannot, or will not, acknowledge that in the United States an almost ancient document is no longer suitable for a progressive mankind.

What an interesting statement. An "ancient document no longer suitable for a progressive mankind" would lead me to believe that you do not think that the rights given in the "ancient document" are needed in the future.

Freedom of religion and speech, a free press, right to petition and assemble, the right to self defense, protection for unreasonable searches and seizures, protection form self incrimination and being tried for the same offense over and over again, the right to confront your accusers, and right to an attorney, protection against cruel and unusual punishment, protection of enumerated rights, and limiting the power of the federal government.

Even 200 plus years later these are wonderful ideas that empower people NOT governments.

This makes your statement even more interesting because just what are you are promoting for your "progressive" world.

You should enlighten us how people's rights do not belong in your new world.

reply to post by Simon_Boudreaux

Guns were banned in principle in the UK after the nursery massacre, but lets all not be fooled due to the illegal fire arms trade (that the 'western' world has a hand in by the way) guns will be easily accesible to the people of the UK and always will be, just ask the IRA, but not many people envy the constitution but I for one do, as its our only hope in this time of darkness, I just hope Americans are not all talk and stop sitting around like sheep and letting the government pass under hand laws that are slowly eradicating the foundations and laws and believes the country was built on, because at the rate there laws are being passed i.e. the patriot act, Americans may wake up and find that its not another country that is trying to 'come and take our weapons then' but your own government that was voted in by the people.

yo what if this kid in pitt pa was set up to do all this so that it would then allow them to ban the guns that he was scared they were going to take away in the first place... kind of like the pnac. we need an event that would bring about the changes necessary. a "looney" kid thinking they're going to take his guns shoots police for no reason seems like an event suitable.

Originally posted by Verd_Vhett
Every time that our constitutional rights are challenged it is an affront to the men who fought for those very rights during the Revolutionary war. Americans today have no idea of the Difficulty that faced the colonial army. Our own soldiers today I doubt can Appreciate the misfortune that they faced. Disease, was rampant, many Starved, supplies of clothing where lacking many solders faced the winter with out proper clothing such as shoes or jackets. Yet still they fought and Died because they believed in freedom.

Any American who stands against the rights given to us in the constitution is insulting not only these, but every man and woman who as ever taken the oath to protect and defend the constitution! Not only that but you insult every Freedom loving American, and if you wish to live in total government control, please give up your rights and leave there are plenty of countries that will suite your desires!

If we allow the government to take our right to bare arms what is next? our freedom of speech, Or freedom of religion, perhaps our right to a fair trial,I will give up my right to bare arms when woman give up the right to vote! If we give the government an inch they will take a Mile and we will find ourselves slaves to the government!

[edit on 4/9/2009 by Verd_Vhett]

well said

Oh please, the media is doing what it's suppose to do..get paid and spread the agenda. If we have restrictive gun laws to the point that citizens are unable to legally own one, we are going to be in the same situation that UK is in now with the rise in knife related killings..People are just gonna switch to another weapon..the inherit violent tendencies need to be addressed rather than focusing on the outlet. Why your doing it rather than what your doing it with.

I mean if you ban guns (which i doubt, go NRA!) only the rich and influential (which go hand in hand) and criminals will have guns, and let me tell you criminals will always have heat.

"The gun will remain man most effective weapon until we evolve beyond the need for such"--Cenpuppie


[edit on 9-4-2009 by cenpuppie]

A gun doesn't give you certainty, it gives you a chance.

The only certainty at Virginia Tech was that the kids had no chance.

Mod note: Please read this. -- Majic

[edit on 4/9/2009 by Majic]

There is quite a lot of propaganda from both sides of this issue.

The funny thing about all this propaganda is it is focused on the wrong issue. Firearms in this country is not only a right, it's traditional. It's American.

I believe in unrestricted access to firearms for people who should qualify. What I mean by that is a psychological test should be preformed in order to qualify a person for a firearm. Sane people? You get your right to bear arms, completely unrestricted to type. Crazy, well your nuts so, ah, no.

I mean ask important questions like...

"Do you plan on taking this firearm into a large crowd and start mowing down innocent people left and right resulting in a standoff with police eventually leading to your suicide?"

It could help. I'm just sayin is all.

Jiverly Wong

Seung-Hui Cho

Charles Carl Roberts IV

Kimveer Gill

Robert Stewart

Ervin Lupoe

Davon Crawford

Just to name a few, probably could have used a little psychological evaluation before getting the weapons used in their rampages.

I know this idea won't sit well with some, as obviously the question becomes, who is sane enough to own a gun? Obviously the men above weren't sane enough to own a firearm. Does that help?



Source

Hell I'm less worried about criminals owning weapons than I am crazy nuts owning guns. A gun is an inanimate object. Without the user, the gun is useless. I don't believe in restrictions on what type of firearm a person may have, or do I care about how they carry it on their person. What I do care about is whether or not that person is competent enough to have that weapon.

I wonder, if loaded firearms were mandatory for all citizens would crime drop to zero? If you knew that every adult in a place everywhere you went was packing heat, do you think anyone would chance robbing the place?

Maybe not, but it is something to think about.

The hard right, wants you to think that Obama is going to take away your guns. They push this hard, every single day, they push it into you. That fear-mongering by the far right has caused a massive glut in gun sales.

Of course let's see what is really happening.



Source

Politics of fear, both sides are using them. Don't be swayed. The hard right is using the fear of gun control laws to try and regain power in the next election, they are pumping into the news these stories every day to fool everyone into thinking that gun control is on the way.

The anti gun advocates are pushing these same stories in the news to push their agenda.

reply to post by News And History


If the media would like to know what our society would be like without legal gun ownership, then they should take a look at the airline industry. Over the past several decades thousands of airliners have been highjacked resulting in thousands of deaths.

What makes an airliner such a tempting target?

It is the knowledge (until very recently) that nobody else on the plane is armed with anything more dangerous than a pencil. Weakness invites agression, always.

If we really want to get technical about "Control" laws, let's look at how many deaths are a RESULT of gun control laws. I'd say gun control laws kill more people than guns do. I mean, after all, if there were no laws restricting a law abiding citizen's right to defend themselves, then how many lives would have been saved in all of these shootings where Gun Control laws have allowed the shooters to have easy pickings? So maybe we should be focusing on the REAL issue here, the laws that enable criminals to do the deeds that they do.

I grew up around firearms, and learned the safety factors real early on. I have carried for many years now, mostly a black powder .44 Remington cap & ball revolver that has been in my family for a long time. It shoots well, and I am a good shot, and live in an open carry State, so carrying it in a holster is no problem, and as the Ohio Law has no law whatsoever on black power weapons of any kind, I can carry in my vehicle too. No too long ago I had the opportunity to show a local cop the awesome fire-power of this pistol, compared to his 9 mm Glock. I could easily out draw him and get cocked and ready to fire before he could clear his holster, and where he left a small hole in the target, I left a large hole.

That being said, I would not leave home with out it, as they say, for this weapon is my family's only real defence against an attacker or home invader, and we had had our share of those. This ABC thing is propaganda, plain and simple, and part of a dumbing down effort to get Americans to willfully give over their guns. We have the right to have guns, because if our government gets to be fascist, then we can take it back, as was tried once before in 1860. America has never been invaded, and why? Because we all have guns, and anyone planning such an attack knows this. Take away out weapons and we have no defence at all against anything TPTB want to do to us. Now just think of all the things they already do, when we already have the guns.....what is to happen when we do not have them?

reply to post by whatukno

So im assuming that these psyc tests will take place yearly, because while you may be born insane, you can also turn insane, events in our lifes can trigger insanity, so a person who passed his test 2 years ago, might just go a bit nutty and start letting off shots in a crowded shopping mall....and you also go to worry abou those who...'always tell the truth....even when they lie.'

reply to post by black.sunday2099


Yearly is a good start but since so many crimes are "of passion" or spur of the moment and without concern of consequence the testing would really have to be done perpetually if you're hope to end violent crime.

A one-time or annual evaluation system will eventually see a case with no predetermined mental issues commits a violent act and then said system will subsequently be sued and no longer trusted making the whole thing moot.

Perpetual, 27/7 surveillance and evaluation is the only way.

agreed. just more anti gun propoganda.

people trying to take advantage of a crisis or event in order to further an agenda that otherwise would meet with higher resistance. who was it that recently said "you can't let a crisis go to waste"?

I have 3 friends that are English citizens that wonder why their citizens allowed the taking of their guns, including shotguns, and now regret not ofering up more resistance.

Enough said

[edit on 4/9/2009 by LiveFreeOrDie..]

Originally posted by benoni
mother jung...

South Africa has not banned gun ownership, thats why its number 2!!
your wrong....

Your right about guns not being outlawed, that was a mistake on my part, but the government of South Africa requires that all guns be registered. Here is the wiki page on SA and the gun laws there. 98% of guns used in crimes are illegal and unregistered. The police can deny registration for any reason. So while guns have not been outlawed in SA, they have made it very difficult for law abiding people to get and maintain possesion of guns.

Having a gun is only an equalizer, it doesn't make you safer, it doesn't make you superior or anything like that. The only thing it does is give you a fighting chance for survival.

The whole "progress into a new future" line is a bunch of bologna. The only thing I see we are progressing to is complete government control of our lives. The world that the anti-gunner "progressives" are indoctrinated into believing we are moving to is reminiscent of the old empires of Rome, China, Mongolia, etc.

If you don't have a means to defend yourself then you become a target. It is as simple as that. If people read and understood history then people would see that. Somebody mentioned earlier about how we have an illegal immigration problem.

Well, lets see not all, but a lot of those illegals are drug smugglers, if you ban firearms then a new black market is going to open up. Then we will be going through the same things Mexico is going through right now. Our police will be outgunned and the country will deteriorate rapidly, and get thrown into a Civil War.

The difference being that it will be once formally law abiding citizens that wouldn't turn in their guns who are fighting the cartels, and the government. Then it is vice versa for all of them.

It's very simple, and it what I see a lot of. If the progressives wanted people to progress then they would teach the correct history so we actually learn from it so we can face new and more interesting problems. Instead as a general population we don't know history and it makes it easier for governments to exploit the weaknesses of those past mistakes.

I like what Stalin use to call the people that would walk over a cliff if he told them too, useful idiots. They are trying to march us over a cliff and you have people that are brainwashed into believe that everything will be just peachy and rosy if we just listen to them.

Then after they get what they want the once champions of all this new fangled progressive ideology always ends up apologizing and back peddling and start saying things like, "I didn't know it was going to be like this, I'm so sorry." Then they end up victims of their own mentality. Just like Hitler did with his Brownshirts.

Hitler had his Brownshirts that pushed for everything that Hitler did and then when they got what they thought they wanted it wasn't what they expected and turned on him. That is when the SS started murdering them.

History it's like a time machine. You'd be amazed what people can learn if they learn to read both sides of the issue and start to think on their own.