ABC Special to Dismiss Idea of Using Guns for Self Defense?

reply to post by MrAnonUK


I think what is really is for those countries that have strict gun laws and because of that have low crime rates is because there laws are so strict that to comment a crime such as speaking negatively about your ruler would have you killed instantly. Those places have punishment of death for any crime. So even robbing a house with a gun, can have you killed in the court. So yea, i can see why that would work. But thats not going to work here, no matter how hard or how strict you are with gun laws and border laws. Its to easy to make guns or weapons that kill for that matter.

ok maybe this is round 2.
i am currently watching fbi files on the discovery channel and saw a commercial for 20/20 with diane sawyer titled "if i only had a gun" it is on tonight on abc at 10 pm est
so will this be some kind of rebuttal or another knock down on guns?
guess we'll just have to wait and see

reply to post by News And History


Just watched it
What a LOAD of Horse $h!t

I thought for the most part it was funny. They brought NO reasons for any extra gun control just alot of stupid people.

I do have some weird logic, for the people who support what the idiot's are trying to do.

Using the "stupid" logic process that they did/do to say guns are bad how about this?

Did you notice in the little boy's town that is so troubled with gun violence. I did not see one white person waving a gun around or wearing a mask waving an AK copy.
SO with the same idiotic sense they have applied to the USA being Mexico's gun problem, wouldn't making it illegal for African American's to own weapons solve all of that town's gun problems?

I just tried watching it. It made me sick!
What is even sicker is the reaction that this show will bring to the mindless sheep that watch it and believe it!
About the only thing this show is going to do is 1) increase gun sales and ammo sales and,
2) Give voice to the moron crowd that want to take our guns away.

I'm surprised this isn't being shown 'round the clock on all MSM channels!!!

Screw abc news. Supose i conceal an executive letter opener, a razor blade, hell even a tron open can can, and use tha for self defense? The only real difference is ti would mean i better fight for my dear life now...kinda llike hand to hand co,bat, whereas a gun jsut made it easier to stop someone and deter them. This whole thing i think, started becasue of the laws they make. Its actualyl illegal, to defend yourself. SOmeone breaks into yuor home, or approches yuo with a large knife..and yuo shoot them, chances are, your going to jail now.
Eh its ok. People will jsut learn to adapt and become more violent, defending themselves because of this. Actualyl, i think thier helping us be stronger...thats the brighter side i look at

The people wishing to ban guns know that these type of laws have nothing to do with getting guns out of criminals hands. It's about control of the people that obey the laws as well as making criminals out of those that would refuse to obey any such law. That way you have a reason to round up all those undesirables and are left with a compliant population that will be a lot less likely to buck the system as control is tightened over the population over time.

History shows this again and again how disarming the people works to gain control over the population. It's impossible to deny it's happened. For those of you in countries without the ability to protect ones self and family from not only the criminal element but a tyrannical government I hope you're happy like that. If that's how you choose to live your life and it makes you happy that's great. But it will not work in the U.S. Historically speaking we are a very young country. WE took our freedom at the barrel of a gun. This really has not been all that long ago. Our expansion across the North American continent was even a shorter time ago. Many of our families lived in places that had no law other than what they deemed necessary. There was no police, there were no courts. That is all within the last 250 years. It's ingrained into our collective experience.

It's more than a little amusing to me that on a site like this one that spends a great deal of time discussing the ways our different countries governments are lying to us that any of you would put any confidence in those governments taking care of you. They are doing all these things in the shadows but they are doing all they can to make sure you are well taken care of. The police will be there when some bad person wants to try and hurt or kill your families. Bur they are all still up to no good at every turn. WE are way too civilized a culture to need a weapon to try and take back our countries and why would we need to anyway? The government is here to help us!

Now that I have that little bit if insanity out of my system I can move on. Sure there are a lot of Americans that graze on the political prairie like the good little herd animals they are. But many of us do not trust the government to take care of us. There are many of us that do not want to allow them to take care of us because we see it as a personal responsibility. WE do not desire to be spoon fed whatever they think we need to hear to keep taking away our freedoms. The 2A is as important an amendment to us because without that it becomes much easier to take the rest.

And besides the ingrained ideals that we do not like the idea of tyranny we do not like being a victim. Bad people abound in all the world. Being the kind of people many Americans are we do not want this to happen and we have taken steps to thwart these unsavory activities. Being the police are more apt to clean up the mess after a crime is committed many of us have taken it upon ourselves to stop the crime from happening. I personally have had two people try and car jack me. Two time I stopped that crime from happening. I do not like a gun pointed to me head no matter who it is. And I will do what I feel is needed to keep that from happening.

AS I said many Americans do not believe in this way and chooser to not want to take these steps. While I do not agree I see that as their right to not want to have a firearm around them. Again I do not agree but I am willing to defend that right by any means neccessary. Because that's how it's supposed to be here. WE are free to make that decision. It's in our Constitution that we will always have this right. And many of us are willing to defend that right by any means neccessary.

No one American or not has to agree with me and those like me. You don't have to. But to be willing to want to take my freedoms away I must ask any of you what gives anyone to take away my rights? I don't tell people they need to have and use a firearm. I don't tell anyone no matter what their country is how they should live. I expect the same respect in return.

The thing i saw was they do not believe anyone is trained other then cops to use a gun for self defence.

They forget the 24 million veterans, Also the retired police, and security personnel out there.

They set up fake scenarios that would never happen with what is likely idiots to make fools of. Gave them bad training and made them look bad to make a point. That the media knows nothing about gun fights.
Only a fool that knows all they are going to get shot with is a paintball gun will stand up and be a target.

I am a military veteran and have been a trained security officer for the navy and we were trained to do thing like find cover when someone opened fire not stand up and get shot.

Even my training for CCW stressed cover first if possible. Or to drop to the floor if no cover.
we were also trained to shoot under a car at the feet of a shooter.
few people can keep up a effective fight with a 45 acp round to the foot or leg

Most gang bangers and other criminals will shoot high unless they are trained.

So you cant take some idiot off the street, put a gun in his hands, and magically turn him into a Ranger? Well freakin' duh 20/20.

Let me go grab some hyper urbanite whose never left his borough and put him in the seat of a combine and see what happens.

If you read the articles on the 20/20 site you'd see that during the clips of the idiot 'playing' with the found gun there was a producer there egging them on. A couple of the kids were quoted in the article as saying the producer "made it look fun."

I'm an adamantly pro-gun and could have made a more worthwhile and convincing anti-gun 'news' special.

Such a shame they took Stossel off the project. What a waste.

Yea... I clearly remember the media propaganda machine right after Stockwood. It never changes. They have an agenda or are clearly working for someone who does.

I've been a gun owner for a very long time. I currently have a concealed 'high-capacity' license in one of the hardest states in the country to get one. I grew-up around guns. In my state you need to pass a gun safety course to get any kind of firearm license. There are issues to which I personally subscribe that are unpopular to some of the 2A purists: I do believe gun owners have a responsibility to secure their weapons and I do not believe just anyone should be able to buy a gun.

But the ABC special was so 'cooked' it was an embarassment. In the 'armed college student v. intruder' scenario let's breeak it down:

:: You have a college student newly trained with an unfamiliar, holstered weapon. Any of us that keep holstered weapons know that it takes time to get comfortable with them.

:: They are made to wear their weapon under a thigh-length t-shirt. No sane armed person would ever carry their weapon in a manner that interfered with it's easy retrieval. Completely unrealistic.

:: It just so happened that the 'intruder' was a gun instructor. What are the odds of that? Most likely if the college student had been a well-trained police officer in that scenario he would have been killed as well. In the real world the intruder is usualy suffering from the same panic response as the victims. The playing field, as it were, is far more level.

Essentially, what ABC is saying is that it is better to just sit there and be executed than have any chance whatsoever of defending yourself. Yea right.

If they want to do a REAL experiment, here's two:

1. Let the intruder be a college student as well. Let the armed student decide how he/she will carry the weapon.

2. Get a group of coillege studenst. Take them to a neighborhood. Explain that their mission is to break into a house and steal a picture off an upstairs wall. If they do it they'll get $5,000. Tell them the homeowners are NOT part of the experiment and do NOT know this is happening. For part of the students tell thgem the homeowner may eb armed. See how that experiment works out.


Another 'mold-the-masses' head-piece from MSM. Who woulda thunk?

reply to post by ANNED


" Even my training for CCW stressed cover first if possible. Or to drop to the floor if no cover.
we were also trained to shoot under a car at the feet of a shooter.
few people can keep up a effective fight with a 45 acp round to the foot or leg"
First off, thank you for your service, and diligence in defending 2A...

One of my gripes for ever has been that very thing.

A few years ago, when the big shoot out in L.A. occurred, the cops were quick to realize that the bad guys were wearing armour, but kept trying to bring 'em down with shots to the torso. I could not understand why the bad guys still had feet, once the shooting was over...

I do not have a CCW myself, though I've thought about it. I live in an open carry state, so just haven't considered it a necessity...

Not to cause an argument, rather to convince myself... Can you say that
I should consider it a necessity, and explain why?)

my apologies for my previous post as the ad i saw made it seem like it was a new one but alas was the same one as before.
sorry
and i am absolutely disgusted by the blatant intent to just throw people into a situation like that that have no gun knowledge, training etc so they look like they can't defend themselves and that having a gun won't help you. those of us who do have training and are familiar with their guns know enough to seek cover and know how to shoot to kill or incapacitate the person to control the situation.
there are too many things wrong with that inept staged biased gun control tv show for me to even start saying what was wrong with it.
diane sawyer can suck my you know what. hope i'm in a room someday with her and something like that happens and i save her life- maybe then we will see what she thinks. oh wait i wouldn't she is a BI### and deserves what would happen to her.

reply to post by jtma508


I agree with your post. I don't know how people are dealt with in all states but to get a CCW permit here it's an 8 hour course with a qualifying at the end. In that course if you have not learned it elsewhere already you're taught how to find cover, finding the right weapon and ways to carry it in a manner that is both safe and to make sure it's available if the time comes you might need it. You learn things to do in certain situations. This training for most never stops. It's just all part of it. Unless you are on TV news shows I guess

I read some where that doctors kill more people each year accidentally then guns kill people each year.

Of course the GOV will take that over soon so nothing to worry about.

There is indeed one group of citizens who would benefit from the disarming of law abiding American citizens; criminals with illegal guns.

They are interested in a safer work environment, and armed potential victims put these criminals in serious risk of injury and death.

In Akron, OH an armed robber recently held up a pizza shop. The owner opted to change the robbers special order of cash to a 'hot lead' special, the robber was killed.

The owner was investigated and legally allowed to posses his gun, but that didn't stop local moonbats from elevating the robber to martyr status, and vilifying the shop owner.

After all, the robber was only trying to encourage the shop owner to "spread the wealth"... wasn't he?


Criminals For Gun Control :

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by benoni


Mate, just don't bother. I've seen ample to just sit back with a smirk on my face and accept the fact that the majority will conjure up nearly anything to condone the use of firearms, particular found the comments about the United Kingdom and portrayal of an apparent continual tyranny due to the populaces lack of firearms. Also the stories of how arms must be kept so that they can fend off military attack, would love to see a pistol against a tank personally.

I've seen one good and perfectly true response, "each nation is different." But even against that I would argue that's just defeatist talk. Really though, some of these people seem incapable of comprehending the positive outcomes and will only look to counter anybody that's "anti-gun" with nonsensical statements.

Just enjoying the ride no matter how tempting it is to respond, there is absolutely nil point in even discussing with quite a lot of these people. Good luck is all I can say, good luck. I'm almost tempted to wish these people face the worst to show them, fortunately I'm not that evil. But damn these points are naive and poorly thought out.

I'm just, no pun intended, going to let it be.

Originally posted by MrAnonUK
Mate, just don't bother. I've seen ample to just sit back with a smirk on my face and accept the fact that the majority will conjure up nearly anything to condone the use of firearms, particular found the comments about the United Kingdom and portrayal of an apparent continual tyranny due to the populaces lack of firearms. Also the stories of how arms must be kept so that they can fend off military attack, would love to see a pistol against a tank personally.

You know, I have relatives who are still alive and can remember donating hunting rifles to equip your Home Guard units in WWII when you faced the threat of Nazi invasion.

So you'll forgive us if we sit back and smirk when you tell us how nonsensical the notion of you ever needing to defend yourself is.

Most of us can live with that sad fact without any undue concern, but your continued attempts to meddle in our internal politics via the agenda of your liberal media is somewhat annoying. We kicked you people out a long time ago, you still don't appear to have got the memo.




[edit on 13-4-2009 by Retseh]

Originally posted by secretagent woooman
reply to post by centurion1211

 

The only problem is, as any cop, medic or gun safety expert will tell you, is that the opposite usually happens. You are far more likely to injure yourself or enrage an offender to the point of murdering you by firing a weapon than you are to defend yourself. Point blank, people panic in those situations and it is not as easy to play Steven Seagal as it looks on tv, I say this as someone who has been in this situation. I'm all for self defense but please be realistic about it, you would have to see them coming to catch them off guard before they pull a weapon and then it can't even be called self defense in court. As desperate as a lot of people are now they are losing inhibitions about seriously injuring or killing someone else while robbing them so fighting back probably is not the best option in all cases.

This is completly false, and unfounded. CCW has an Overwhelming approval rating with Sheriff's departments.

It's been a pure success. and the map above proves that.

I am sorry, but the Gun ban has been Defeated by Facts and common sense. Gun Control doesnt work in America. It is also Unconstitutional.

Originally posted by Retseh
You know, I have relatives who are still alive and can remember donating hunting rifles to equip your Home Guard units in WWII when you faced the threat of Nazi invasion.

So you'll forgive us if we sit back and smirk when you tell us how nonsensical the notion of you ever needing to defend yourself is.

Most of us can live with that sad fact without any undue concern, but your continued attempts to meddle in our internal politics via the agenda of your liberal media is somewhat annoying. We kicked you people out a long time ago, you still don't appear to have got the memo.
[edit on 13-4-2009 by Retseh]

I'm sorry to inform you of this, but you in no way entered into the second world war through any concern for my home nation. We're thankful for your great peoples help, don't doubt that for a second. Mention of that conflict has absolutely nothing to do with this debate, I was merely discussing an issue posted on internationally accessible forums.

The nonsensical notion is derived from the fact that many condone the use of firearms with nonsensical counter arguments, If I was to receive a valid argument I'd be the first to accept I am wrong as your issues are of no concern to me, merely of interest.

Via the agenda of a liberal media, just typical of a nation which has so many people that must label everything. You clearly have no clue of my supposed agenda as I had no premeditated agenda other than that of stating my view on this issue. And more importantly, how you view my input as having any impact on your politics is quite beyond me.

"We kicked you people out a long time ago, you still don't appear to have got the memo." Yes you did, because we had too many foolish people in power that didn't listen to the few that understood what the peoples of the Americas wanted upon establishing colonies in a 'new world.' But that brings me onto the perfect example, your nation was divided, a large portion happy with being connected to the nation that contributed largely to your foundation. However, many joined the cause to fight against a taxation on Tea, resulting in many deaths (I haven't gone too deeply into that, but I got a feeling you'll allow me plenty of answers.) Next we'll see your rebellious nature lead many to death because your precious weapons may be revoked. (weapons that in this day in age wont protect you at all against a modern military might I add.)

Read my initial posts, I comprehend the struggles a nation would face with withdrawal. I was pointing and laughing at the poor replies, not the millions of great citizens and decent people, but it would seem you was incapable of restraint or contemplation when reading a contentious post.

"We never got the memo," oh my friend we've had plenty of those. Just we've had plenty more lessons to learn from throughout our long history. We've past our infancy...

[edit on 13-4-2009 by MrAnonUK]

Everyone has the right to defend themselves and each other if the situation calls for it. Do you mean to say that if a man were holding a gun on you and he wants to rape your wife, you're going to stand there and let him do it? Are you crazy? I'd rather take a bullet trying to save a life than just stand there and do nothing.Being passive is a weak state of mind.
There's time to become invisible to the ones around you so they don't hurt you,but then there's a time to stand up and defend yourself and your loved ones.

Here's the kind of story ABC avoided like the plague.

This just happened, an armed robber ran into a CCW holder and got exactly what he deserved.

www.thestate.com...

Try telling this guy he didn't need a gun for self defence or that he was unable to use it safely and effectively in a crowded room.