ABC Special to Dismiss Idea of Using Guns for Self Defense?

Sorry boys, but your John wayne talkin' is hilarious!!

Noone has said that "prise my gun from my cold dead hands" thingie....Come on!!

I have lived in Africa for 25 years and seen or heard of some terrible things involving guns...including my own families personal horrors..

Without exception those people sought a "gun free" society after their experience.Invariably this involves great expense, big upheaval and more often than not, having to start over again...I am one of these people.

Which would i choose having experienced both first hand??
Gun free any day...

Your all typing big, but trust me, anyone can talk...pulling the trigger without hesitation??Not easy...
And even if you do kill the guy robbing the Burger King, your next problem may well be the revenge attacks against yourself or worse still, your wife and kids...

Incidentally, i emigrated to Australia and have never even seen a gun here let alone heard a round being discharged....crime rate thru the roof??Not where i live mate...wheres that info from??
I want to die of natural causes...being shot, or for that matter shooting someone else in self defence(or burger king robberies which you chose to be judge and jury as well as executioner because of, and only because of your gun) can lead to untimely deaths all round, including yourselves dear ATSers!!

My personal thoughts only...each to there own...

In countries that do not allow gun ownership and task their citizens to not defend themselves, there are stabbings and beatings. Great Britain is now in the process of regulating knaves carrying knives. Maybe what should happen is a change in the laws that remove the legal risk of defending oneself with whatever is at hand, regardless of the fate of the attacker. In the case of GB, perhaps they should consider a return to allow carrying swords for all who want them. Evil-doers are not so brave when the intended victims can turn the tables with a quick, unfettered perforation or two.

The "guns are evil" special will likely show why the untrained individual should not carry a gun. Knowing ABC's Walt Disney view of the world, they will probably play down the 'untrained' part and let the public think that all would behave in the same way ergo, no one is trustworthy to have firearms.

from my cold dead hands!!!!!

reply to post by benoni


Good for you, Benoni. No violence. No threats. No worries.

Just hope your luck holds. The one thing that never changes, is that everything changes.

I've come upon beautiful, peaceful villages of poor farmers, who wanted no trouble with anyone, and were as kind and peace-loving as a group could be. They too, lived completely without firearms of any kind, as they had no need for firearms.

But they got slaughtered. That's why it was so quiet. The entire village.

By those who didn't see things the same way. And they were the only ones armed. Without one molecule of mercy.

To your continued good luck. . .

I'll keep my firearms, carry one at all times, and if a surprise comes up, at least me and mine will have some say in the outcome, and not have to patiently wait until our turn for execution.

lol, my wife and I were watching Lost and saw this commercial 2x lol it was almost funny. Its sad in a way that they even need this pure political propaganda against guns to turn the people who are easily scared and the lemmings against the gun owners of the US. Remember guns are bad . I wonder and doubt if they will mention the thousands of cases where a person with a gun stopped a crime or prevented one from even taking place. Maybe its time we take some of these journalist and convince them to see things our way? The funny thing is shortly after this commercial, another one came on where the journalist is portrayed as a hero. Funny I've never seen or heard of a journalist doing anything other then hiding or taking pictures in a crisis situation. IMHO we need to have every student in the USA take basic firearms training about the same time they have sex education.

If I only had a gun, I say that every time I look at BS propaganda about reasons why not to have a gun.

Originally posted by secretagent woooman
reply to post by centurion1211

 

The only problem is, as any cop, medic or gun safety expert will tell you, is that the opposite usually happens. You are far more likely to injure yourself or enrage an offender to the point of murdering you by firing a weapon than you are to defend yourself.

Really? Says who exactly? Post your evidence (like I have that shows people can defend themselves and not be victimized like sheeple) showing that people more often than not hurt themselves instead of defending themselves. I sincerely doubt you can.

While we're waiting, here's another FBI statistic for you: whenever a town or city or state decides to allow concealed carry, violent crime goes down. That's right, it goes down. The reasons are very simple and I've posted them before, so you can look it up for yourself. Criminals are basically cowards preying on the weak and defenseless. So, if suddenly the criminals no longer know who can defend themselves and who can't, they move on to the gun free zones where the pickings are much less risky to them.

Last, another fact for you. The police don't prevent crimes, they investigate crimes that have been committed. Get it yet? By then it will be too late for the victim ...

If you are a gun-o-phobe, by all means do not obtain a weapon and then pray that no criminal ever casts their eyes on you or your family. At the same time, do not attempt to deprive me or any others of the right and ability to protect ourselves.

[edit on 4/8/2009 by centurion1211]

reply to post by MrAnonUK

It is beyond me why so many Americans look to state a gun is for self defence, arguing the point 'if I had a gun at that moment.' It is true, a gun could prevent a shooting from happening, but that is merely a draconian approach and excuse to keep hold of a deadly weapon.

The RIGHT, or duty, to own a firearm is not for self defence!!
edit: self defence is a just bonus that comes with this right

It is sickening how this is thrown around by people who are to busy chasing a dollar or spending a dollar to stop and look around. Holy crap...

The RIGHT to posess firearms is too ensure that the people of this nation not are forced to live under an oppressive government. It is there specifically to protect all of us (that's you too) from government. To keep our own check as well as the checks and balances of our elected officials.

I'm not talking about the right to go shooting cops as is often implied in the retort to this. I'm talking about our right to protect our freedom.

These are weapons designed to kill people for purposes of war, perfected for that very 'art,' the producers of these weapons are not considering perfecting them for domesticated use. So ultimately, guns should be banned anywhere and everywhere outside a war-zone, or developers should enter into a pursuit of perfection for domesticated use (which would provide the answer for both parties, yes... even those that act as if they must have weapons of murder otherwise they are being ruled by "the" NWO.)

This is just absurd. I could murder anyone with a pencil if I were so inclined.

Give me a break, deep down you know that taking away guns from law abiding citizens will have no effect on the criminals. I will site the example of illegal drugs simply because it is so glaring. Is the argument really that the random and rare shoot em up killer would have changed his mind if he had to go to the not so nice part of town to get his gun rather than through legal means?

Please, Getting a gun illegaly is easier and faster than going through the legal "infringments" that already exist. If you have trouble accepting this then you haven't been far from your ivory tower in the last, say 50 years.

And please, no our 'constitution' this, our 'constitution' that, doesn't change anything but show a nations inability to progress past popular interests for the greater good of man. It shows adherence to popular draconian writings, many of which need great revision, but many a man cannot, or will not, acknowledge that in the United States an almost ancient document is no longer suitable for a progressive mankind.

The constitution is draconian?? HUH???? Is that what you really believe?

If by progression you mean socialism and/or an unelected world goverment with no gaurantee that the people aren't made to serve the government. A place with no gaurantee that the government works in the interest of the people instead of working only to stay in power and removing the peoples means to say anything about it, A place where you are constantly monitored for obedience, are not allowed to speak out(no constitution remember), cannot go to church or own a bible, What a vision....That's not MY dream for America

I think I'm gonna puke.....








[edit on 4/8/2009 by AlienChaser]

Oh, and before anyone tries to take us down the "well regulated militia" road, after all the classes I had to take, forms I had to fill out, and fees I had to pay, I already consider myself very well regulated.

Let them try and take guns away in the United States remember 1% of gun owners is 1 million people thats a large amount for a small percentage
if the obama administration starts messing with the bill of rights In such a direct way there will be hell to pay.

criminals are criminals because they don't obey the law, you think Murders care that they are breaking another law by using a gun?

mid evil times where extremely violent, no guns but their was still war

The American wild west was extremely wild west and they didn't need automatic weapons.

lets suppose the guy in NY had a knife instead of a gun, chances are he still could have killed a few people before anyhow was able to fight him off!

Originally posted by AlienChaser
If by progression you mean socialism and/or an unelected world goverment with no gaurantee that the people aren't made to serve the government. A place with no gaurantee that the government works in the interest of the people instead of working only to stay in power and removing the peoples means to say anything about it, A place where you are constantly monitored for obedience, are not allowed to speak out(no constitution remember), cannot go to church or own a bible, What a vision....That's not MY dream for America

I think I'm gonna puke.....

Remember this poster is from the UK our constitution is like a giant slap in the face to the British, if they can't learn from their own history they are doomed to repeat it if i'm correct Several of the worlds Tyrant's where their Kings. I guess in this day in age they still see them selves as peasants only their ancestors actually had the courage at times to stand up to tyranny on occasion, but only to fall victim to it again and again.



Mod edit: Unnecessarily long quote trimmed. -- Majic

[edit on 4/9/2009 by Majic]

reply to post by Verd_Vhett

Remember this poster is from the UK our constitution is like a giant slap in the face to the British, if they can't learn from their own history they are doomed to repeat it if i'm correct Several of the worlds Tyrant's where their Kings....

Yes, I see that now, thanks. Unfortunatly there are too many Americans who feel this same way.

Opinions have been formed and the issue is divisional, like abortion. Both sides will not change their minds.

Except for those victims who were lucky enough to have been rescued from a crime by an armed civilian.

If it were my America guns would be an integral part of education with saftey and proper respect of a firearm taught early on in education.

Whenever this debate gets hot I ask the question why is it that only civilian guns are to be targeted? how many bad cop shooting are there? Why are we supposed to surrender our means of defence yet the enforcers get to keep theirs? What purpose would this serve other than control, pure and simple.

Originally posted by AlienChaser
reply to post by Verd_Vhett

Remember this poster is from the UK our constitution is like a giant slap in the face to the British, if they can't learn from their own history they are doomed to repeat it if i'm correct Several of the worlds Tyrant's where their Kings....

Yes, I see that now, thanks. Unfortunatly there are too many Americans who feel this same way.

Maybe not so many Americans against guns as you would think. Check out the latest poll numbers just published on "obama-friendly" CNN.

CNN Article

From Oakland, California, to Binghamton, New York, several mass shootings in recent weeks have killed dozens across the country. But has there been an effect on public opinion?

Yes, and in a surprising way.

Since 2001, most Americans have favored stricter gun laws, though support has slightly dropped in recent years: 54 percent favored stricter laws in 2001, compared with 50 percent in 2007, according to Gallup polling.

Now, a recent poll reveals a sudden drop -- only 39 percent of Americans now favor stricter gun laws, according to a new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll.

Maybe that helps explain why guns and ammunition (except hunting rifles and ammunition) have disappeared from sporting goods stores and online. At a local store, a 30 foot counter that was once full of hand guns now has exactly 8 guns in it. The shelves where they used to display hand gun ammunition are now bare. Online stores, if they even let you backorder ammunition, are now quoting October 2009 delivery dates.

People seem to be scared. But it seems to me that perhaps they are more frightened of obama taking away their 2nd amendment rights than they are of criminals at this point. What makes me think this is that a big seller is Wolf ammunition sealed in tins like sardines. You can keep it like that for years ...

Oh dear, the W.O.G. (War on Guns).. of W.O.F. .. haha. Either way, whatever side of the fence you're on, it is our right to keep and bear arms. Of course the one wanting to wipe out a few lives isn't going to go to the hood and stand out in the open shooting. Because they will get shot back. They will always go to susie joes school house down the road where (supposedly) nobody is armed. More of a chance at winning. It's ridiculous to say that if there weren't a few trained carriers there that ONE of them would not snap out of shock and take control. Someone would be able to react. I've had good reaction time in extreme emergencies before and I was able to keep a somewhat cool head. I think I am pretty well qualified to carry in the event something were to happen that could harm me or my family. I want to be there for them like that, God forbid anything should ever happen to them.

What I don't want is a gun black market. I don't want the "criminal" to always be the one with the gun and the "good law abiding citizen" unarmed and dead. I do not want that. I don't think anyone does, but that is the mindset we would have about it. Oh look at that poor citizen, he's just a citizen he couldn't protect himself. Yes it would be tragic but what is even more tragic would be us giving up the ability to prevent it. But that's just my 2c.

reply to post by News And History

More corporate thugs trying to take guns from decent people and only have them in the hands of cops soldiers and thugs. Yeah I'm gonna feel REAL safe. Like giving the key to all our nukes to a five year old or Dubya.


[edit on 8-4-2009 by Beach Bum]

reply to post by News And History


They will teach us not to protect ourselves. I am already feeling a little bit flimsy.


What a laugh riot.

Originally posted by secretagent woooman
reply to post by centurion1211

 

The only problem is, as any cop, medic or gun safety expert will tell you, is that the opposite usually happens. You are far more likely to injure yourself or enrage an offender to the point of murdering you by firing a weapon than you are to defend yourself. Point blank, people panic in those situations and it is not as easy to play Steven Seagal as it looks on tv, I say this as someone who has been in this situation. I'm all for self defense but please be realistic about it, you would have to see them coming to catch them off guard before they pull a weapon and then it can't even be called self defense in court. As desperate as a lot of people are now they are losing inhibitions about seriously injuring or killing someone else while robbing them so fighting back probably is not the best option in all cases.

Well at least having a way to defend myself gives me somewhat of a chance to at least try. Without a gun, in a situation like the ones' appearing all over the news recently, you surely wouldn't step out and try to flag the bullet down. Now would you? I don't need some bureaucrat giving me permission to defend my own life, or the life of my family and friends. It's not a privilege to live and be safe in doing so, it's a right.

reply to post by MrAnonUK

It is a good idea to check the murder rates, so here is some data:
as you can see #2 is South Africa with a murder rate of .496 per 1000. They have outlawed gun ownership.

#3 Jamaica at .324 per 1000 also outlaws guns.

#5 Russia; no own can own guns but they have a murder rate of .201 per 1000

#6 Mexico .13 per 1000 with no gun ownership over .22 caliber

The U.S. rates at #24 with .0428 per 1000

You are much more likely to be murdered in a country where the guns have been completely outlawed.

Switzerland which has 0.00921351 murders per 1,000 ranks at # 56 for murders per capita and they have laws that make gun ownership mandatory in many circumstances.

Also do you know who Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin are?

They all committed genocide and they all disarmed the people before they implemented their form of "change"

The one thing in common with almost all massacres is the ones getting massacred are unarmed. Here in the United States, almost all the "massacres" occurred in so called gun free zones. You know places like the Post Office, Malls and Schools.

Also know that it is a fact that states that allow for individuals to carry concealed weapons, crime goes down not up.

Remember, when seconds count,the police are usually minutes away.


[edit on 9-4-2009 by mother_jung]

Originally posted by MrAnonUK
And please, no our 'constitution' this, our 'constitution' that, doesn't change anything but show a nations inability to progress past popular interests for the greater good of man. It shows adherence to popular draconian writings, many of which need great revision, but many a man cannot, or will not, acknowledge that in the United States an almost ancient document is no longer suitable for a progressive mankind.

So should we then ban knives too? Cars perhaps? Because if guns aren't available, you can bet your ass that bad people will find other means to inflict casualties. Fire maybe? Or perhaps a bottle that sprays acid? Hmmm, if I had to choose what to be murdered by, I'd say gun, to the head. My point is, there are a million ways to kill someone, and taking guns away, isn't going to solve anything. All people like you are doing is making it hard for people like us to survive the brutality of an ever-increasing violent world. You take guns away, you don't think someone won't figure out how to make something, like a zip gun perhaps? Reality check friend, you can change the landscape, but you can't change the hearts and souls of the people that walk it.



Mod edit: Unnecessarily long quote trimmed. -- Majic

[edit on 4/9/2009 by Majic]

Every time that our constitutional rights are challenged it is an affront to the men who fought for those very rights during the Revolutionary war. Americans today have no idea of the Difficulty that faced the colonial army. Our own soldiers today I doubt can Appreciate the misfortune that they faced. Disease, was rampant, many Starved, supplies of clothing where lacking many solders faced the winter with out proper clothing such as shoes or jackets. Yet still they fought and Died because they believed in freedom.

Any American who stands against the rights given to us in the constitution is insulting not only these, but every man and woman who as ever taken the oath to protect and defend the constitution! Not only that but you insult every Freedom loving American, and if you wish to live in total government control, please give up your rights and leave there are plenty of countries that will suite your desires!

If we allow the government to take our right to bare arms what is next? our freedom of speech, Or freedom of religion, perhaps our right to a fair trial,I will give up my right to bare arms when woman give up the right to vote! If we give the government an inch they will take a Mile and we will find ourselves slaves to the government!

[edit on 4/9/2009 by Verd_Vhett]

Originally posted by centurion1211
People seem to be scared. But it seems to me that perhaps they are more frightened of obama taking away their 2nd amendment rights than they are of criminals at this point. What makes me think this is that a big seller is Wolf ammunition sealed in tins like sardines. You can keep it like that for years ...

My husband has worked for Winchester Ammunition for 5 years now, and they are busier than ever before! They are working overtime to make so may bullets ahead of schedule. Most of their contracts are with the military, but they have had people from Germany, Sweden, and China in the past week...?? His dad has been there for 30+ years and has NEVER seen anyone take a tour of the factory. They have very strict rules there, and everything has gates. Only workers are able to go in there...They were asking my husband how the machines worked and how many shells it would make per hour....etc. He thought this was all very stange, and so did everyone else in the factory.


Mod edit: Unnecessarily long quote trimmed. -- Majic

[edit on 4/9/2009 by Majic]