Congress to Revive Hate Crime Bill to Censor Christians

Originally posted by SemperParatusRJCC

I am the very thing for which Christianity stands against. First off im a witch, so .

Not to be picky but wouldn't you be a warlock?

Thanks dip#s for killing off my kin and burning innocents to the stakes. Secondly I am bi. Therefore am I evil.

Yeah those christians did have quite a few "fun" evenings for themselves in Salem. Out by the local pond and by the bonfire. Nice religious folks

Originally posted by kleverone

Now we are on the verge of passing Federal hate crime laws that will be used to silence believers like in Canada, Europe and Australia. No more will your pastor be able to declare the truth about Islam or homosexuality because it will be considered a hate crime.

I would love to know what the "truth" about Homsexuals and Islam is? The arrogance and close-mindedness in that statement alone makes me feel a bit sick to my stomach. This is the type of attitude that causes division in the world. What ever happened to judge not lest ye be? I think if Christians spent more time worrying about the log in their own eye instead of the splinter in their neighbors eye, then the world would be a much better place. This was the type of mentality that fanned the flames of the dark ages. Not to say all Christians harbor this mentality, but those who do, in my opinion, are no different that those who burned witches at the stake and called for the head of those who claimed the earth was not the center of the Universe.

We can only wait for those who live by ancient contridictory laws to "catch-up" to logic and rational.
Although I don't see that happening soon. Evolution takes time

Please quote the whole thing: Matthew 7: 1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

Originally posted by erniemink1
reply to post by cindy22761

 

I am a Christian but dont go out and stand out on the corners condemning others even if they choose to or are manipulated to be gay, simply because it will just anger them and it wont change them at all. Change comes by the way we live and admitting we are NOT perfect just because we are Christians. I will sign the petition against hate crimes, but to know exactly what a hate crime is will obviously be distorted simply because we feel homosexuality is not the way relationships and marriage were or ever will be meant to be in the first place. That is how we feel and NOT hate.

Well said and on point.

I think the Anti-Christian crowd fail to understand Christians are NOT perfect, and a good Christian is the first to acknowledge the same.

reply to post by cindy22761

Posters in favor of censoring Christians, just a friendly reminder that HITLER used CENSORSHIP quite handily.

Not convinced that is a road most of you want to go down.

A Link to Make You Think:, Adolf Hitler and Censorship



[edit on 2009/8/4 by Marmota monax]

Originally posted by cindy22761
WOW this has taken off as I imagined it would....

People, All Crimes are Hate Crimes.
That is why we don’t need the hate crime bill.

1)Uh, no, some crimes are accidents or motivated by things other than hate.
(Greed, sociopaths etc.....)
ALso, Hate crimes enhancements are generally used when someone appears to be attempting to effectivelly "put [insert minority] in their place" or intimidate a group of people. Motive already matters.(or we wouldn't have Homicide and Manslaughter....)

Originally posted by cindy22761Hate Crime Laws do remove Free Speech. If what you "speak" is perceived as "hateful" by anyone then you can be charged with multiple crimes. This is a way to silence people. ALL People. Removing free speech is censorship.

NO YOU CAN'T BE CHARGED WITH ANY CRIME UNDER THIS BILL FOR SAYING THINGS. Sure in some other countries, that ALREADY don't have Freedon of Speech as america does, what you say CAN get you jailed. Most europeans countries don't have Freedon of Speech as america does. For example, in Germany it's illegal to deny the holocaust.

In the article in the OP there was a video of a guy complaining about how a "minister" who told people that "gays should be killed" could be arrrested if one of his listeners then went out and killed gays if this law passed.
He completely ignored the fact that said "pastor" could already be arrested for doing so.

Originally posted by Aermacchi


You say you are witch? I thought you were male. Of the 20 woman that were burned at the stake, which were your kin?

Just don't want this travesty being minimized so I thought I'd post just a bit more info about the trials.

From June through September of 1692, nineteen men and women, all having been convicted of witchcraft, were carted to Gallows Hill, a barren slope near Salem Village, for hanging. Another man of over eighty years was pressed to death under heavy stones for refusing to submit to a trial on witchcraft charges. Hundreds of others faced accusations of witchcraft. Dozens languished in jail for months without trials. Then, almost as soon as it had begun, the hysteria that swept through Puritan Massachusetts ended.

www.law.umkc.edu...

Originally posted by cindy22761
WOW this has taken off as I imagined it would....

People, All Crimes are Hate Crimes.
That is why we don’t need the hate crime bill.

Agreed.

Hate Crime Laws do remove Free Speech. If what you "speak" is perceived as "hateful" by anyone then you can be charged with multiple crimes. This is a way to silence people. ALL People. Removing free speech is censorship.

Please show the specific laws that indicate this.

"Hate crime" laws work this way: They add penalties to a criminal sentence if the criminal is also convicted of having "hateful" intent toward the victim.

To a point.

Hate crime laws in the United States (also known as bias crimes) protect against crimes motivated by enmity or animus against a protected class. Although state and federal laws vary, typical protected characteristics are race, religion, ethnicity, nationality, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, and disability.

The current statutes permit federal prosecution of hate crimes committed on the basis of a person's race, color, religion, or nation origin when engaging in a federally protected activity, 18 U.S.C. § 245, (see 1969 law, infra). Legislation is currently pending that would add gender, sexual orientation, gender-identity, and disability to this list, as well as remove the prerequisite that the victim be engaging in a federally protected activity (see attempted expansion, infra).

The Matthew Shepard Act (officially, the Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2007 or LLEHCPA), H.R. 1592 was a proposed federal bill that would expand the 1969 United States federal hate-crime law to include crimes motivated by a victim's actual or perceived gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability. The bill would also:

* remove the current prerequisite that the victim be engaging in a federally-protected activity, like voting or going to school;
* give federal authorities greater ability to engage in hate crimes investigations that local authorities choose not to pursue;
* provide $10 million in funding for 2008 and 2009 to help State and local agencies pay for investigating and prosecuting hate crimes;
* require the FBI to track statistics on hate crimes against transgender people (statistics for the other groups are already tracked).[1]

Ultimately, "hate crime" laws punish only beliefs or thoughts.
....i.e. "He said this and I think it is hateful".......

Again, not entirely true.
If person A beats person B because person A hate person B because he's black, person A committed a hate crime.

I do NOT agree with censorship or the hate crime bill.

Again, there is no censorship to reasonable free speech.
You can't yell fire in a crowded theatre unless there is one. Should we be able to do that also?
Should I be able to publicly accuse you of crimes in your community with no proof? Why not, it's free speech right?

reply to post by jfj123


Well the long answer to your question, as to controlling the huge Christain population. It is quite simple.

I'm thinking they would like to start with shutting my Christian mouth. They would know I would WARN others. Here goes,,,,

Most will doubt their faith and accept the mark (RFID chip implant), if they want to buy or sell, enter a public building etc.

They simply wont walk away from their homes and everything they have built in life. The christains who know better will be considered an anti-government threat. During this time of the 7 year tribulation God leaves the earth and Satan has complete control.

These Christians, if captured will refuse the global ID implant and families will be seperated, Christians will be persecuted worse than the Jews, according to the Bible.

I guess we can leave that to you imagination. FEMA camps would probably be a disquise to torture and kill these Christians. The Bible goes in to great detail about those who take the mark and those that dont.

Those fallen Chritians, atheists, agnostics, etc that do take it will enjoy it for a couple years then all Hell will break loose on them. No changing your mind at that point youre going to fry for it. Those will wish they were killed rather what the Bible explains will eventually happen to them.

Man that was a long answer. It may sound odd but ask any Christian around about the warning signs in the book of Revelation and the old Testament and you will see how precise these events are occuring and at such rapid speed ,as indicated.





The simple answer is that no, there isnt enough room at all the FEMA camps. They will be killed, as written. but be Martyrs for God.

If youve noticed I'm always posting images saying RESIST the NWO, when in fact it cant be stopped.

reply to post by wonderworld


Again, my point is that there is really no way for a government of the US' size to control a population of it's size.

Entire states will not allow this to happen so now the Fed's will be battling entire states.

The majority of the US population are gun owners and a majority of gun owners own more then 1 gun. The legistics of what you're proposing are simply not possible.

To put it simply.

This will not happen.

Originally posted by UrsusMajor

Originally posted by Aermacchi

Originally posted by UrsusMajor

BTW Aermacchi, Jesus finds you to be an arrogant bigoted ass. Prove me wrong.

Can't, if I am guilty of one sin I am guilty of em all but J.C. and I,,

we koO

You bet. Nothing a few Rosaries can't fix anyway. Hail Mary.

I am not catholic, and nothing a few hours studying his word wouldn't help you as well

reply to post by jfj123


I understand you think there is no way a Government the size of the US and do this.

There are 2 ways to look at this. First you are Patriotic, as I am. The world could continue on it’s merry way as usual. Youre right it couldn’t happen under our current living conditions.

The second thought it the possibility of a Global Governance. With that in mind we would do away with the social security number and be assigned a new global ID number under a Global dictator.

With the massive amount of Obama’s Civilian Nation Security force in full swing sh## could get done fairly quickly.

Back when Hitler had his German youth organization, unsuspecting children would turn in their own parents not meaning to and were sent off to concentration camps.

I compare all this with Obama’s mandatory servitude and a New World Order. There are some common factors involved here. Not just this but compared to the Great Depression. So much to list.

Have you seen most of the states declaring sovereignty lately? Something’s up! Some think another Civil war will break out. I don’t want the states divided like the Soviet Union.

Yes the majority are gun owners and may soon be illegal to own uncoded ammo. See here.

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by Aermacchi


You say you are witch? I thought you were male. Of the 20 woman that were burned at the stake, which were your kin?

Just don't want this travesty being minimized so I thought I'd post just a bit more info about the trials.

From June through September of 1692, nineteen men and women, all having been convicted of witchcraft, were carted to Gallows Hill, a barren slope near Salem Village, for hanging. Another man of over eighty years was pressed to death under heavy stones for refusing to submit to a trial on witchcraft charges. Hundreds of others faced accusations of witchcraft. Dozens languished in jail for months without trials. Then, almost as soon as it had begun, the hysteria that swept through Puritan Massachusetts ended.

www.law.umkc.edu...

I see you like to contaminate the present day Christian with the acts of men many hundreds of years ago having nothing to do with Christianity or its tenets. While Christians have been persecuted and slaughtered in the millions and the genocide of infants not yet born are mutilated and discareded like garbage in the murder mills of abortion killinincs, you still keep your focus on the crusades and salem witch trial victims lumping all Christians in as one while you demand we tolerate the depravity and sinful lifestyles of relationships based not on family's with children but one on sex andf promiscuity lust and self indulgence.

You all speak of religious bigotry yet the the only vitriol and hate comes from those disparaging Christians and Christianity. Many I see here using the logical fallacy of guilt by asscociation have not the critical thinking skills to argue their point logically ethically or morally yet you pontificate your embellished experiences as if Christians tried waterboarding you into converting.

Was it THAT difficult for you when you slammed the door on the man standing on your porch that day with his bible and his offer to share with you the truth that will set you free?

Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by jfj123

 

I understand you think there is no way a Government the size of the US and do this.

There are 2 ways to look at this. First you are Patriotic, as I am. The world could continue on it’s merry way as usual. Youre right it couldn’t happen under our current living conditions.

The second thought it the possibility of a Global Governance. With that in mind we would do away with the social security number and be assigned a new global ID number under a Global dictator.

Well I do think one world government is the natural evolution of a society but we are hundreds of years from this as we are too nationalistic. I don't see us as US citizens giving up our flag anytime soon.

Back when Hitler had his German youth organization, unsuspecting children would turn in their own parents not meaning to and were sent off to concentration camps.

I compare this to 9/11.
On 9/11, terrorists told people on the planes that if they cooperate, nothing will happen to them.
There will never be another time where passengers on planes will believe this. We won't be fooled twice this way. Could you imagine if some terrorist with a box cutter tried taking over a plane now? He'd either be incapacitated or dead before the plane could land.

Have you seen most of the states declaring sovereignty lately? Something’s up!

In my opinion, this is in response to the bush administrations attempts to remove state power. States now want to reassert their sovereignty.

Some think another Civil war will break out. I don’t want the states divided like the Soviet Union.

I think the odds of this happening since the dictator bush left office, have greatly decreased.

Yes the majority are gun owners and may soon be illegal to own uncoded ammo. See here.

Yes, I've read this info. That doesn't mean that ammo will be illegal, just easier to track. This is one of those laws that are good intentioned but not thought through.

Originally posted by Aermacchi

I see you like to contaminate the present day Christian with the acts of men many hundreds of years ago having nothing to do with Christianity or its tenets.

Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

Also, does the Inquisition ring a bell?
or the burning of the library at Alexandria?
or the westburo baptist church?
or the abortion clinic bombings?
etc...

while you demand we tolerate the depravity and sinful lifestyles of relationships based not on family's with children but one on sex andf promiscuity lust and self indulgence.

YEP. You see we tolerate you so if you want continued tolerance, you should tolerate others.
JUDGE NOT OTHERS LEST YE BE JUDGED

You all speak of religious bigotry yet the the only vitriol and hate comes from those disparaging Christians and Christianity.

Try reading what you just posted

Many I see here using the logical fallacy of guilt by asscociation have not the critical thinking skills to argue their point logically ethically or morally yet you pontificate your embellished experiences as if Christians tried waterboarding you into converting.

And you seem upset about the bill in question which would prevent you from committing hate crimes against people you don't like..ehem, I mean hate.

Was it THAT difficult for you when you slammed the door on the man standing on your porch that day with his bible and his offer to share with you the truth that will set you free?

NOPE. You see he wanted to share the truth as HE saw it which may or may not be what the actual truth is.
And for the record, I never slam the door in anyone's face. I generally tell them that I'm not interested and not to return.
If they do return, I generally do screw with them I've mentioned that I'm busy right now but would love to discuss the subject at their house the same time tomorrow. They NEVER take me up on it WHY NOT????

[edit on 8-4-2009 by jfj123]

reply to post by jfj123


I dont want to give up my flag either but have you been watching the news lately about the Convergence of the G20 Nations.

It’s now written in blood.

As Patriotic as I am I am near to declaring the new Independence Day or dates as being 1776-2009.

Think about this new global currency issue. This isnt a repeat of History but a new age! One in which we have never seen before.

None of this current history has been seen. We are changing history by the day lately. It's alarming.



.

Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by jfj123

 

I dont want to give up my flag either but have you been watching the news lately about the Convergence of the G20 Nations.

It’s now written in blood.

As Patriotic as I am I am near to declaring the new Independence Day or dates as being 1776-2009.

Think about this new global currency issue. This isnt a repeat of History but a new age! One in which we have never seen before.

None of this current history has been seen. We are changing history by the day lately. It's alarming.



.

Although some of what I have seen, I find disturbing, and frankly unacceptable, for the most part, I do understand that a global economy and one world government is the natural evolution of society. Unfortunately, there will be some upcoming conflicts that will delay this.
You'll see many steps toward a more unified monetary system and more unified governmental system but there will be more steps back then forward over the next few years. Trust me on this.

Originally posted by jfj123
I don't know and neither do you.

You said you did and I am saying I do

I do know according to christian belief, we are made in his image.

Did god, a perfect being, make a mistake by accidentally making gay people?

No but people make the mistake of choosing to be gay

God did make everything right? That would include gay people as part of everything

God made everything and everything made god has made

Tell you what, since you are accusing God of making them gay and the guy yu are responding to says God didn't make them gay. I would think the burden of proof is on you to prove God made them gay.

.

The person said god didn't make them gay, I just asked him to back up his statement so the burden of proof is on him. Why should I have to disprove his statement? That would equate to guilty until proven innocent

You claim God made gays imperfect by making them gay, we don't suggest that, YOU do, so if you are going to charge god with making them gay, then YOU must prove he made them that way, you can't expect God to prove he didn't

What if god designed them gay? pun .

If he did, would we have this conversation? I don't think so

No it doesn't, you are wrong

genesis 19-20
1 Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground. 2 And he said, “Here now, my lords, please turn in to your servant’s house and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you may rise early and go on your way.”
And they said, “No, but we will spend the night in the open square.”
3 But he insisted strongly; so they turned in to him and entered his house. Then he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate.
4 Now before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both old and young, all the people from every quarter, surrounded the house. 5 And they called to Lot and said to him, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may know them carnally.”
6 So Lot went out to them through the doorway, shut the door behind him, 7 and said, “Please, my brethren, do not do so wickedly! 8 See now, I have two daughters who have not known a man; please, let me bring them out to you, and you may do to them as you wish; only do nothing to these men, since this is the reason they have come under the shadow of my roof.”

Where does the bible say that it was ok? It doesn't it just explains the situation as the event happened. Not everything the Bible says, the Bible endorses.


The Bible assumes its readers will have common sense


[edit on 8-4-2009 by Aermacchi]

reply to post by jfj123


It's weird that we are arguing. Nothing personal just a difference of opinion I guess. Later we can go back and discuss thing we do agree on.




After all we arent all clones. That would make a boring debate! Onward,











[edit on 8-4-2009 by wonderworld]

Originally posted by Aermacchi

Originally posted by UrsusMajor

Originally posted by Aermacchi

Originally posted by UrsusMajor

BTW Aermacchi, Jesus finds you to be an arrogant bigoted ass. Prove me wrong.

Can't, if I am guilty of one sin I am guilty of em all but J.C. and I,,

we koO

You bet. Nothing a few Rosaries can't fix anyway. Hail Mary.

I am not catholic, and nothing a few hours studying his word wouldn't help you as well

If I could study His word, I would, unfortunately none of His writing's exist.

I have studied the book you speak of, and others, but they were all written by men, not God. They were helpful in forming my opinion though.

Originally posted by Aermacchi
Originally posted by jfj123
I don't know and neither do you.

You said you did and I am saying I do

No I didn't and no you don't

I do know according to christian belief, we are made in his image.

Did god, a perfect being, make a mistake by accidentally making gay people?

No but people make the mistake of choosing to be gay

And how do you know it's a choice? Have you proven that genetics doesn't have anything to do with it? If so, please post your genetic testing results.

God did make everything right? That would include gay people as part of everything

God made everything and everything made god has made

Excellent so now you're saying god made gay people.

Tell you what, since you are accusing God of making them gay and the guy yu are responding to says God didn't make them gay. I would think the burden of proof is on you to prove God made them gay.

.

The person said god didn't make them gay, I just asked him to back up his statement so the burden of proof is on him. Why should I have to disprove his statement? That would equate to guilty until proven innocent

You claim God made gays imperfect by making them gay,

Nope, I never said that.

we don't suggest that, YOU do,

No I don't.

so if you are going to charge god with making them gay, then YOU must prove he made them that way, you can't expect God to prove he didn't

Pay close attention. Read the words sllloowwwllllyyy.
I never said god did, someone else claimed he didn't so I asked them to prove that god didn't. BIG DIFFERENCE. If you don't understand this, let me know, I'll try using smaller words.

What if god designed them gay? pun .

If he did, would we have this conversation? I don't think so

Of course we might still have this conversation because you seem to believe that you're enlightened enough to know the TRUE WILL OF GOD. That's the height of hubris !!!!!

The Bible assumes its readers will have common sense


[edit on 8-4-2009 by Aermacchi]

Please show me that passage.
And if this is true, why are there so many interpretations of the bible by SCHOLARS no less ????