Congress to Revive Hate Crime Bill to Censor Christians

The great danger for the USA, the English-speaking nations, and Europe is that when certain kinds of speech are banned or restricted -- the loss of freedom hurts the entire society.

"Hate Speech" is just another neologism used to try to shut someone up. One could use the "hate speech" label for much of what is written about christian religions on this website. And that, of course, depends on one's vantage point in such arguments.

The truth is that people in a civil society must be willing to advance the same freedom to their philosophical or ideological enemies as they wish to have for themselves. Without such a stance, a society becomes controlled and the divisions once observed in the public square and debate become much deeper and enormously volatile.

I have had lots of racist speech hurled my way during my life, and I learned that I didn't give a damn if racists thought or believed what they believed. Their opinions and positions mean nothing to me, and because of that the "speech" doesn't come close to doing me harm.

It is much safer for a society to let each citizen vent whatever hot air they wish to belch forth rather then trying to contain it or force it down or push it away. Speech -- even the most dreadful -- is a good escape valve for toxic thinking to be vented rather than have such thinking and behavior explode later.

Originally posted by UrsusMajor
How do you know if he loves or hates them? Were you speaking with him today? Or are you using a man made book to represent God's Words?

I didn't establish whether he loves them or not, you did, but I think I know what he means better than you do, thanks.

My level of understanding of Christian Doctine is fine thanks.

If by understanding of Christian doctrine you mean creating of list of every problem you have with christians (or at least people who have claimed to be such), you don't know what it means to love a sinner and still hate sin.

That is why I want nothing to do with them, and I will gladly argue any topic you care to bring up.

You want nothing to do with me, but you'll gladly argue with me... hmm... The thread's already been derailed enough, and I haven't helped either. I don't think I'm going to take this bait.

Sinners are not loved. I call BS.

I'm sorry you think you can see into someone's heart over the internet and know whether they love someone or not. Personally I try not to focus on other people's sins, it's between them and God, but at the same time I've been attacked for personally believing in a moral code that says certain actions that may be socially acceptable are actually sinful. I'm not ashamed to state what I believe about those actions, but that does not equate to judgement of those who choose to engage in those acts without remorse. Unless I'm sitting on a jury, that's not my job either. I've had friends who did those things, and I was still their friend even while they did it. They themselves never understood how I could choose to live my life one way because of the morals I believe in, yet not hate them for living their lives completely differently. In fact, hate was assumed. That's what I see here, an assumption of hate.

In reverence to what the Holy scriptures teach, I will not allow myself to be drug into pointless arguments. The words of the wicked will come back to haunt them. I only hope that my posts have touched someone in a positive way.
I am out of this thread.
God bless.

[Post removed]



Mod edit: 1h.) Spamming: You will not post identical content, or snippets of identical content, to multiple threads in the discussion forums. You will also not create more than one thread for your topic, or create multiple "slightly different" threads for a single topic.

[edit on 4/8/2009 by Majic]

reply to post by Pellevoisin


That's what I was thinking. Rather than censor people and attempt to stop them from saying certain things (which could lead to far worse things), simply don't listen to the ridiculous and the hateful speech - most of it's out of ignorance or fear anywaze.

So long as people can educate themselves and their children to the point that they can either ignore the rubbish talk, or listen but know that what is being said comes from fear and weakness, I don't think censoring one type/flavour of speech is going to make society 'better'.

Originally posted by jfj123
And don't forget their attempts to censor evolution which is a proven science

Well maybe that's taking this off topic, after all believing in creation is no doubt protected under free speech, teaching it in schools is based on verifiable evidence. Free speech doesn't need evidence it only needs someone to say it whereas educational topics need evidence

I just find it very confusing with Christians. Atheists criticising Christianity is hate speech and must be stopped but Christians being censored is evil! The hypocrisy needs to be stopped, as i said before, either it's all ok or none of it is. Those are the two real options because if you pick and choose then you end up with a flawed system.

Evolution is a proven science, but i support anyone's right to say it's not, that is free speech. So long as they don't claim it as truth in a science class, after all science classes deal with facts

I just wish people could value free speech enough to look beyond their own views.

Originally posted by noonebutme
reply to post by Pellevoisin

 

That's what I was thinking. Rather than censor people and attempt to stop them from saying certain things (which could lead to far worse things), simply don't listen to the ridiculous and the hateful speech - most of it's out of ignorance or fear anywaze.

So long as people can educate themselves and their children to the point that they can either ignore the rubbish talk, or listen but know that what is being said comes from fear and weakness, I don't think censoring one type/flavour of speech is going to make society 'better'.

Or put them in the spotlight so all can see their ignorance
As example

Originally posted by JesusSaves2008
In reverence to what the Holy scriptures teach, I will not allow myself to be drug into pointless arguments. The words of the wicked will come back to haunt them. I only hope that my posts have touched someone in a positive way.
I am out of this thread.
God bless.

There you go in your puff of logic as I stated back a page or two ago. It's a shame as theological debate is always interesting, I guess it goes to show:

Intelligent thought + logic > Dogma

[edit on 7-4-2009 by Goathief]

[Post removed]



Mod edit: 1h.) Spamming: You will not post identical content, or snippets of identical content, to multiple threads in the discussion forums. You will also not create more than one thread for your topic, or create multiple "slightly different" threads for a single topic.

[edit on 4/8/2009 by Majic]

Originally posted by Goathief

Intelligent thought + logic > Dogma

That confuses me slightly. Intelligent thought + logic is a part of the basis of scientific method. Surely that is the best way to go to discover truth?

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by jfj123
And don't forget their attempts to censor evolution which is a proven science

Well maybe that's taking this off topic, after all believing in creation is no doubt protected under free speech, teaching it in schools is based on verifiable evidence. Free speech doesn't need evidence it only needs someone to say it whereas educational topics need evidence

I just find it very confusing with Christians. Atheists criticising Christianity is hate speech and must be stopped but Christians being censored is evil! The hypocrisy needs to be stopped, as i said before, either it's all ok or none of it is. Those are the two real options because if you pick and choose then you end up with a flawed system.

Evolution is a proven science, but i support anyone's right to say it's not, that is free speech. So long as they don't claim it as truth in a science class, after all science classes deal with facts

I just wish people could value free speech enough to look beyond their own views.

Your nick is good. "Imaginary reality" - that is what "evolution theory" is.

Originally posted by greshnik

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by jfj123
And don't forget their attempts to censor evolution which is a proven science

Well maybe that's taking this off topic, after all believing in creation is no doubt protected under free speech, teaching it in schools is based on verifiable evidence. Free speech doesn't need evidence it only needs someone to say it whereas educational topics need evidence

I just find it very confusing with Christians. Atheists criticising Christianity is hate speech and must be stopped but Christians being censored is evil! The hypocrisy needs to be stopped, as i said before, either it's all ok or none of it is. Those are the two real options because if you pick and choose then you end up with a flawed system.

Evolution is a proven science, but i support anyone's right to say it's not, that is free speech. So long as they don't claim it as truth in a science class, after all science classes deal with facts

I just wish people could value free speech enough to look beyond their own views.

Your nick is good. "Imaginary reality" - that is what "evolution theory" is.

Actually evolution is well proven for over a hundred years.
It's unfortunate when people such as yourself are too close minded to accept reality

Originally posted by greshnik
Your nick is good. "Imaginary reality" - that is what "evolution theory" is.

*shakes head*

Please provide proof for your claim. If you check my last post i tried to keep this on topic but you decided to go a different way. Start a new topic and U2U me it if you want to discuss evolution. I'm a topic nazi, i won't stray

jfj123 I just can't help but throw this little tidbit out there....

Evolution is not a proven science, it is a theory.

However since you are such an advocate of fighting hatred I thought I would share that Darwin was a RACIST based on his THEORY of evolution!

Evolution states that white people have evolved further which makes whites more intelligent. Blacks are further down the evolutionary scale which is why they resemble apes and have less intelligence. Those are not MY words, they are Darwin's.

You will find no such hate as this in the Bible. Thank you.

Originally posted by JesusSaves2008
jfj123 I just can't help but throw this little tidbit out there....

Evolution is not a proven science, it is a theory.

However since you are such an advocate of fighting hatred I thought I would share that Darwin was a RACIST based on his THEORY of evolution!

Evolution states that white people have evolved further which makes whites more intelligent. Blacks are further down the evolutionary scale which is why they resemble apes and have less intelligence. Those are not MY words, they are Darwin's.

You will find no such hate as this in the Bible. Thank you.

You know i wanted to keep this on topic but WHAT THE HELL! How ignorant are you towards evolution?

Lets start with the whole "evolution is just a theory" argument. In science theory is a higher point than fact because a theory holds multiple facts and ties them together. You are using the laymens idea of theory.

Second as far as i am aware Darwin never mentioned that white people were evolved beyond others. I have read his book,s his notes and letters and i never found this. Maybe you have fallen for the propaganda of eugenicists who abuse Darwins theories or maybe you've fallen for the creationists who abuse Darwins theories.

Either way you are completely ignorant of Darwins theories, you are ignorant of the word theory in a scientific context and basically you need to do some research before commenting again.

Your disgusting views on black people is again a showing of your ignorance of evolution. You are putting your own view of what is evolved onto them. You are nothing more than a racist. You are truly disgusting.

Originally posted by JesusSaves2008

You will find no such hate as this in the Bible. Thank you.

Then you haven't read the bible because hatred is placed on many pages. Especially in the old testament, but hey that doesn't count right? After all it's about interpretation. Which basically means that any part that is obviously about hatred you skip over to keep your religion like the truly ignorant always do.

This thread is lost and I too have played a part, but the focus is on Christianity being censored. This post is stretching it. It's only a matter of time until we get shut down.

I've had friends who did those things, and I was still their friend even while they did it.

I am still shaking my head as I read this. On one hand you tell me how tolerant you are, and at the same time you pass judgement,... in the same sentence,...

This is why I am no longer associated with the Christian faith.

Not by "assumption of hate" as you stated, but because it is an intolerant faith. That is not an assumption on my part, it is a learned condition.

I'm not sure if this has been posted. Has anyone noticed these states legalizing gay marriage over the last couple of weeks? Does this bill coincide with the laws that are being passed? Could it be they are setting up gay marriage only in light of creating a bill that infringes upon freedom of speech? I find this very interesting.

Irregardless, we can argue minority rights till we're blue in the face, but what's happening here is the Christians are arguing they should have the right to commit hate crimes.

If they weren't, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now, they wouldn't be taking offense to being told they aren't allowed to commit hate crimes.



What a wonderful world we live in...

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984



Search for Kent Hovind...and learn not only the truth about "evolution theory", but about your life.

"Evolution theory" needs to be proven. There is ABSOLUTETLY NO EVIDENCE for such a science-fiction theory. There is not even ONE SINGLE EXAMPLE that some animal or plant became SOMETHING ELSE?????? Yes, we evolve but within our OWN KIND and so do all other animals. Big dogs, small dogs, brown dogs, wolves...but they NEVER BECOME ELEPHANTS or DONKEYS. Never. Fish do not "become" snakes. There is absolutely no evidence for that.
Yes, we are all similar, because THERE WAS ONE CREATOR, using similar logic for all of us.
It is totally absurd to even think something like your "evolution theory" (not even Darwin had in mind such a non-scientific, absolutely wrong and miserable "theory".

And, I will not even discuss with you - I know that you will just say that Kent is in jail, he is a crook, and there are thousands of books about your theory...do you know how many books were written and printed about Karl Marx and F. Engels? About communism? Millions! Half of this wolrd learned their "theory" and lived their lives according to it. Well, that "theory" had MUCH MUCH MORE EVIDENCE than anything ever written about "evolution theory". Still, communism was a WRONG THEORY.
So is "evolution theory". It is not only wrong, it is ABSOLUTELY WRONG AND WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE.

I will not discuss any more. I just don't have the energy to change you or anyone else. Sometimes I just get provoked, but I regret wasting time afterwards...because it is a waste of time. If billions (trillions) of dollars are spent to brainwash people, it is really waste of energy to try to convince them otherwise.

So, I will try not to be provoked any more. Please consider whatever you have to say as - I give you the last word.